Communism as a philosophical disease

[Korouse]

They are not socialist programs. If anything, they are very Corporatist. Collectivist, all the same, but calling it socialism is very, very wrong.

How the hell is it not socialist?

Social Welfare?

Anyway I do agree that corporations do promote welfare so they can keep wages low and have the government pay the workers what they(Corporations) don't want to pay. Which is why so many people working at McDonald's collect Welfare instead of getting a $10 an hour wage...

Still though welfare was brought about by people who were worried about their fellow man and wanted the common people to learn and be able to put a roof over their heads. If corporations had it their way the education system would be used to teach kids how to flip burgers and customer service skills...

Basically educational systems and welfare ARE socialists based programs....

Welfare isn't needed for all children though, just the really poor ones.

[The New Sea Territory]

They are not socialist programs. If anything, they are very Corporatist. Collectivist, all the same, but calling it socialism is very, very wrong.

Is it? All individuals (except in rare cases) are expected to pay taxes to these organizations and their will has been overridden in making them do so under law, thus they are collectivist institutions. We also see, that in regards to a police department, an individual can be detained whether he or she wishes to or not, overriding his or her will as an example of collectivism. The manner in which these organizations perpetuate is socialist in nature as the means of production for these organizations is collectively appropriated on all of society.

I agree with you on taxes. I'm not a statist. I'm merely saying that the US is collectivist, but not socialist. It is corporatist. The corporation and the government work together to screw over everyone else.

[Pandeeria]

How does the centre-left promote authoritarianism?

Just how the center-right promotes social authoritarianism , as the state regulates social life, the center left supports economic authoritarianism.

Far-leftism promotes statelessness. At least left-libertarianism, which means all the economics, as everything else is, are voluntary.

Which is awful, inefficient, and bad.

[Liberaxia]

No, it's not. The far left and far right are dead. Right now it's the time for centre-left and moderate right.

Socialism doesn't exist anymore, except if you count North Korea, but they're State-Socialists on spoiled steroids and meth.

Nonsense. Socialism perpetuates. Especially here in the United States. The education system? The emergency response system? Elections? All of it... socialism. Or, more accurately, collectivism.

Gibberish. You're just haphazardly throwing that word around. You sound like a nutty Bircher on my end.

[Distruzio]

Pandeeria... you're confusing terms again. Socialism isn't just an economic paradigm. It's also a social one. It's social observations are collectivist in nature. Any and every democratic institution is collectivist. As such, socialism very much exists here in the United States.

Socialism is mainly an economic system.

Ah so you agree in principle. Now you quibble with the degree.

Does socialism contain collectivist traits? Yes, but do so many other ideologies.

That says much for my argument, then, doesn't it?

Collectivism (even though the US doesn't have it) =/= Socialism.

The US does, in point of fact, possess significant collectivist institutions.

An example of a collectivist political system is representative democracy, as in such systems, after voting occurs and a leader has been chosen by the populace everyone is expected to accept that individual as their leader regardless of whether they voted for them or not. For example, in the United States Presidential election of 2012 Barack Obama received a majority of the electoral college votes cast, and the opposition was expected to submit to letting him lead them whether or not they had originally voted for him. The will of the "collective" (President Obama voters) mattered more and is considered "collectivist" because ultimately, the totality of decision by the voters in the country, expressed through the electoral college system, was more important than the will of any single individual in that context.

[Master Shake]

And to discredit an ideology because it killed people is nonsense. The Founding Fathers fought a war. FDR, Truman and Reagan and many other presidents killed people. So? It doesn't discredit the philosophy.

Lets not get into a numbers contest...

I mean the Nazi's got 10,000,000 deaths and they are hated worldwide...

The communists have 100,000,000 corpses in their closet and they wonder why they are hated worldwide....

The Capitalists death toll may never be known, but it isn't even near what the communist have done...

Also you can't lump the Imperialists into the capitalists because they are two different types of people...

Also the deaths the Capitalists caused were primarily Natives,Nazi and communists...Sure the Natives didn't deserve death, but the other two were threats to global peace and stability...

[Distruzio]

Nonsense. Socialism perpetuates. Especially here in the United States. The education system? The emergency response system? Elections? All of it... socialism. Or, more accurately, collectivism.

Gibberish. You're just haphazardly throwing that word around. You sound like a nutty Bircher on my end.

Reads mah linky.

[Korouse]

How does the centre-left promote authoritarianism?

Just how the center-right promotes social authoritarianism , as the state regulates social life, the center left supports economic authoritarianism.

Far-leftism promotes statelessness. At least left-libertarianism, which means all the economics, as everything else is, are voluntary.

I don't understand at all, because I thought the political spectrum and economic spectrum were different, and here you are saying the centre-right supports social authoritarianism. Sorry for completely misunderstanding what you're saying.

[Liberaxia]

Hahahahah, no.

Education, Elections, etc. are not socialism. There hardly is any work place democracy, the poor-rich divide is insane.

Socialism isn't here any more. Industrialization wiped it out.

Pandeeria... you're confusing terms again. Socialism isn't just an economic paradigm. It's also a social one. It's social observations are collectivist in nature. Any and every democratic institution is collectivist. As such, socialism very much exists here in the United States.

I call BS. Democracy is to me an extension of the individual.

[Liberaxia]

Gibberish. You're just haphazardly throwing that word around. You sound like a nutty Bircher on my end.

Reads mah linky.

It's still a very fluffy word that's lacking in substance.

[Distruzio]

Is it? All individuals (except in rare cases) are expected to pay taxes to these organizations and their will has been overridden in making them do so under law, thus they are collectivist institutions. We also see, that in regards to a police department, an individual can be detained whether he or she wishes to or not, overriding his or her will as an example of collectivism. The manner in which these organizations perpetuate is socialist in nature as the means of production for these organizations is collectively appropriated on all of society.

I agree with you on taxes. I'm not a statist. I'm merely saying that the US is collectivist, but not socialist. It is corporatist. The corporation and the government work together to screw over everyone else.

You're misconstruing the meaning of corporatism and corporation. The one is not the other. Corporatism is also known as corporativism refers to a corporate group - not a corporation.

Such as agricultural, business, ethnic, labor, military, and other common interests.

[Cu Math]

And to discredit an ideology because it killed people is nonsense. The Founding Fathers fought a war. FDR, Truman and Reagan and many other presidents killed people. So? It doesn't discredit the philosophy.

Lets not get into a numbers contest...

I mean the Nazi's got 10,000,000 deaths and they are hated worldwide...

The communists have 100,000,000 corpses in their closet and they wonder why they are hated worldwide....

The Capitalists death toll may never be known, but it isn't even near what the communist have done...

Also you can't lump the Imperialists into the capitalists because they are two different types of people...

Also the deaths the Capitalists caused were primarily Natives,Nazi and communists...Sure the Natives didn't deserve death, but the other two were threats to global peace and stability...

Let's not forget the entirety of the imperial age, WW1, the thousands lost in factories... here's one. Leopold's Congo. That wasn't exactly Nazi killing

[Distruzio]

Pandeeria... you're confusing terms again. Socialism isn't just an economic paradigm. It's also a social one. It's social observations are collectivist in nature. Any and every democratic institution is collectivist. As such, socialism very much exists here in the United States.

I call BS. Democracy is to me an extension of the individual.

Then you confuse individualism as much as you do libertarianism.... which explains a lot, actually.

[Liberaxia]

I call BS. Democracy is to me an extension of the individual.

Then you confuse individualism as much as you do libertarianism.... which explains a lot, actually.

It explains nothing because both propositions are false.

[Distruzio]

Reads mah linky.

It's still a very fluffy word that's lacking in substance.

<<eyeroll>>

You disliking the word for it's fluffiness doesn't diminish the fact that I was not speaking "gibberish" or "haphazardly" using the word.

I'm adhering to definitions, here.

That those definitions upset you, or offend you, is not my concern.

[Reploid Productions]

All Communists have no Idea how politics work, as with all left wingers, and should be put to death, And the Communists are nothing more than Corrupt Monsters that should all be slaughtered in the name of Order. Without Order and control we have People doing whatever they want, and Nothing will get done, People will be hurt, Rules are there to keep you safe, to make sure nothing goes wrong. That's how my Country thinks.

Underline for emphasis. Saying "That's how my country works" doesn't excuse blatant trolling, given that NSG is an out-of-character forum. And given you seem to have a somewhat chronic habit of this sort of "calling for deaths of entire groups of people" flavor trolling, we're hopping from your recent 1-day ban a couple weeks ago right to a *** 7-day ban for trolling. ***

I suggest you spend some time with the site rules before you resume posting after your vacation.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Korouse]

It's still a very fluffy word that's lacking in substance.

<<eyeroll>>

You disliking the word for it's fluffiness doesn't diminish the fact that I was not speaking "gibberish" or "haphazardly" using the word.

I'm adhering to definitions, here.

That those definitions upset you, or offend you, is not my concern.

That word is not soft and cuddly, you liar.

[The Serbian Empire]

Lets not get into a numbers contest...

I mean the Nazi's got 10,000,000 deaths and they are hated worldwide...

The communists have 100,000,000 corpses in their closet and they wonder why they are hated worldwide....

The Capitalists death toll may never be known, but it isn't even near what the communist have done...

Also you can't lump the Imperialists into the capitalists because they are two different types of people...

Also the deaths the Capitalists caused were primarily Natives,Nazi and communists...Sure the Natives didn't deserve death, but the other two were threats to global peace and stability...

Let's not forget the entirety of the imperial age, WW1, the thousands lost in factories... here's one. Leopold's Congo. That wasn't exactly Nazi killing

At last, the Imperialism was not capitalism but mercantilism which lasted as long as countries had colonies.

[Cu Math]

Let's not forget the entirety of the imperial age, WW1, the thousands lost in factories... here's one. Leopold's Congo. That wasn't exactly Nazi killing

At last, the Imperialism was not capitalism but mercantilism which lasted as long as countries had colonies.

Leopold's Congo was more capitalist. It had a corporation holding the land, unregulated by the government, that provided a good to the market. At the expense of a few thousand africans

[Distruzio]

<<eyeroll>>

You disliking the word for it's fluffiness doesn't diminish the fact that I was not speaking "gibberish" or "haphazardly" using the word.

I'm adhering to definitions, here.

That those definitions upset you, or offend you, is not my concern.

That word is not soft and cuddly, you liar.

Apologies my good man/lady/kitten/<<screw dogs>>!

Socialism doesn't deserve the poor rap she gets.... as I've already noted in this thread:

Being that the McCarthy Era and subsequent Tea Party GOP fearmongering has perverted American comprehension of terms you are, colloquially, correct.

[Infected Mushroom]

there is no such things as a philosophical disease. Disease is medical, any other use of the phrase is a misappropriation.

Communism is not a biological disease; it does not cause physical or mental illness and no medical professional recognizes it as a disease or entertains the possiblity of recognizing it as such. It is not a disease.

[Vazdania]

Socialism is mainly an economic system.

Ah so you agree in principle. Now you quibble with the degree.

Does socialism contain collectivist traits? Yes, but do so many other ideologies.

That says much for my argument, then, doesn't it?

Collectivism (even though the US doesn't have it) =/= Socialism.

The US does, in point of fact, possess significant collectivist institutions.

An example of a collectivist political system is representative democracy, as in such systems, after voting occurs and a leader has been chosen by the populace everyone is expected to accept that individual as their leader regardless of whether they voted for them or not. For example, in the United States Presidential election of 2012 Barack Obama received a majority of the electoral college votes cast, and the opposition was expected to submit to letting him lead them whether or not they had originally voted for him. The will of the "collective" (President Obama voters) mattered more and is considered "collectivist" because ultimately, the totality of decision by the voters in the country, expressed through the electoral college system, was more important than the will of any single individual in that context.

The only leader in the US is Queen of England. LONG LIVE THE QUEEN.

[Silent Majority]

They are not socialist programs. If anything, they are very Corporatist. Collectivist, all the same, but calling it socialism is very, very wrong.

Is it? All individuals (except in rare cases) are expected to pay taxes to these organizations and their will has been overridden in making them do so under law, thus they are collectivist institutions. We also see, that in regards to a police department, an individual can be detained whether he or she wishes to or not, overriding his or her will as an example of collectivism. The manner in which these organizations perpetuate is socialist in nature as the means of production for these organizations is collectively appropriated on all of society.

You're basically using socialism as a meaningless buzzword. Certainly, these institutions are created and sustained in the name of the common good, but that doesn't make them socialist. For example organizations like the law enforcement tend to be extremely hierarchical, and in practice tend to incredibly inegalitarian in the way they actually go about their business. Socialism is a subset of collectivism, not the other way around.

[The Serbian Empire]

At last, the Imperialism was not capitalism but mercantilism which lasted as long as countries had colonies.

Leopold's Congo was more capitalist. It had a corporation holding the land, unregulated by the government, that provided a good to the market. At the expense of a few thousand africans

The thing is the only corporation allowed to extract resources was the land holding company (This resembles the East India Company).

[Insel des Wohlstands]

Is communism a terrible ideology? Yes. Is it a philosophical disease? Not at all.