Why be against Zionism?

[Ucropi]

Why be against Zionism? Because religion breeds hate. All religion should be abolished.

Even if organized religion eventually collapses, human beings will always turn to some form of ritualistic devotion. Such behavior is literally an evolutionary characteristic.

*points at atheists* It's not "literally" an evolutionary characteristic. if anything it's social evolution which can change on a whim.

[Aushanit]

….You can't abolish religion anymore than you can abolish certain emotions.

Emotions are ingrained in humans if you don't teach a kid about religion they won't believe in it.

But conflict is also a part if human nature. If we take away religion will simply find another catalyst to start or breed conflict in some form.

[The Alma Mater]

….You can't abolish religion anymore than you can abolish certain emotions.

Emotions are ingrained in humans if you don't teach a kid about religion they won't believe in it.

But they will probably invent their own.

[Cyyro]

Pretty sure all the Jews who were Zionists could just put their money together and buy the land from palestine.

[Ucropi]

Pretty sure all the Jews who were Zionists could just put their money together and buy the land from palestine.

Yeah, because the Palestinians love the Jews so much.

[Diakhopol]

Why be against Zionism? Because the way they practice it nowadays is actually kinda crypto-fascist. With discrimination against black jews, palestinians, some free speech problems, compulsory military service, things like that.

The "This land is ours, God gave it to us!" attitude is sooo 2000 BC.

(In theory, I'm not against Israel, but how Israel works today upsets me.)

[Ucropi]

Why be against Zionism? Because the way they practice it nowadays is actually kinda crypto-fascist. With discrimination against black jews, palestinians, some free speech problems, compulsory military service, things like that.

The "This land is ours, God gave it to us!" attitude is sooo 2000 BC.

(In theory, I'm not against Israel, but how Israel works today upsets me.)

It's actually BCE not BC.

It's that how the British, French, German and Spanish colonies were founded?

[Neo Rome Republic]

Because Ethnic and Religious Nationalism causes unneeded conflict and division.

[Cyyro]

Pretty sure all the Jews who were Zionists could just put their money together and buy the land from palestine.

Yeah, because the Palestinians love the Jews so much.

Well uh, that was kind of a Jewish joke, thanks for getting it. Also. Gold > Hate

[Washington Resistance Army]

Promised by whom?

God, who else?

God also promised me that I would rule all of Eurasia by myself, so should I be crowned God-Emperor of Eurasia because an invisible man in the sky no one can prove exists said so?

[Neo Rome Republic]

Promised by whom?

God, who else?

Fairytales don't make for a valid land lease.

[Kilobugya]

Why be against Zionism? Because religion breeds hate. All religion should be abolished.

….You can't abolish religion anymore than you can abolish certain emotions.

That's not a valid comparison at all. People can very well live without religions, there are millions of atheists, countries were it's the majority of the population, and it's growing every passing years. Unlike emotions which everyone feels, and those who don't have serious clinical problems.

Religion will disappear on the long term. But it'll take a long time.

[Israel-Judah]

For those who don't know, Zionism is a political movement that emerged in the second half of the 19th century, which calls for the creation of a jewish state. It is a branch of nationalism, but differs in the fact that instead of creating a state for a nationality (Italian, German, Chinese), it aims to create a state for members of a certain religion (Judaism). While Judaism is not exactly a nationality, all jews have many traits in common, including language (Hebrew), culture (Judaism), and a common history (the bible/ ancient Israel). Jews have been prosecuted for many years and they still are for various reasons. The State of Israel was founded after WWII (and the holocaust) for that precise reason. While Israel in it's many years of existence has generated many controversies, it doesn't represent the end goals of Zionism. Criticizing Zionism because of Israel's mistakes is like criticising Nazi Germany because of Nationalism (although it is impossible to compare Israel with Nazi Germany). I understand people who are against Israel, but why be against Zionism?

Please do not bring up the Palestinian-Israeli debate, there are other threads for that but limit the discussion to Zionism.

Probably because its real world consequence is that it aims to create a state for members of a certain religion (Judaism) in a place where many people who are not members of said religion already live.

Zionism is not Judaism and Judaism is not Zionism. Zionism is a political ideology which defends the Jewish right of determination and homeland. Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism was an atheist, as was his followers. Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion of people, so therefore a Jew can be an atheist. Zionists focus more of the ethnic aspect of Jews rather than the religious one for the very reason that most people do not hate Jews because of their religion, they hate Jews because of who Jews are as a people. They believe conspiracies and lies told about Jews. That is how all prejudice comes about - lies told about the people. Israel is a Jewish nation by ethnicity, not religion. Israel is secular. There is no mentioning of God in our anthem, there are no discussions of God in our policies, and discussion over the conflict never amounts to religion. Over 35 percent of Israel's population is non-Jewish; 20 percent of which is Arab-Muslim. We currently have twelve Arab member sitting in our government. Israel is a democracy. The only one in the region.

[Sxvoryia]

Zionsim is a form of Jewish extremism

[Neo Rome Republic]

Wrong

Zionism is the act in which someone of any religion takes their religion too far!
The Israelites are no better than the Nazis who tried to kill them.

An example of Non-Jew related Zionism ;Osama Bin Laden was an Islamic Zionist who took his religion too far by terrorism

The KKK were hypocritical Christian Zionists

Wrong. Learn the definition of a word, before you use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

[Sxvoryia]

I have an Idea

Everything in Jerusalem and north of it is Jewish

and the other Southern Half including Jericho and Gaza are Palestinian

But no the Jews want it all, God is so mean, taking land away from the Palestinians just because they are not special enough. Originally the Jews were not even a real people, the were a movement following Abraham for no good reason to a random land to claim it for god and attempt to wipe out the natives, just like the Spanish in Mexico. Jews can be so conceded.

Zionism is the Jewish equivalent of Jihad ism

Infact...

They think all Palestinains are Satanic
And they had been through so much, I guess it could be so
but still I can not see
If the satanic ones are them
Their are many things they do not know
do not know



The Jews think they own any land they land on...

They think the earth is just a dead thing they can claim,

But nothing on earth will ever belong to people.

It just is not that way


They think that the only people who are people, are the people who look and think like them

If only they would give a chance to these strangers

They could actuually learn something they don't know

[Sxvoryia]

Wrong

Zionism is the act in which someone of any religion takes their religion too far!
The Israelites are no better than the Nazis who tried to kill them.

An example of Non-Jew related Zionism ;Osama Bin Laden was an Islamic Zionist who took his religion too far by terrorism

The KKK were hypocritical Christian Zionists

Wrong. Learn the definition of a word, before you use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

sorry

still a bad thing though

[Cetatsenia]

Wrong

Zionism is the act in which someone of any religion takes their religion too far!
The Israelites are no better than the Nazis who tried to kill them.

An example of Non-Jew related Zionism ;Osama Bin Laden was an Islamic Zionist who took his religion too far by terrorism

The KKK were hypocritical Christian Zionists

What are you talking about? Zionism and extremism are too separate things.

[Israel-Judah]

God, who else?

Fairytales don't make for a valid land lease.

Fairytales? Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Zionism is a political ideology defending Jewish ethnicity, not religion. There is concrete evidence of Jewish history on the land. The same cannot be said for the Arabs. Palestine is rich of Jewish archaeological history. This proves that Jews are native to this land. The Arabs did not arrive to Palestine until the Muslim Conquest which brought them through Palestine all the way through North Africa, ending in southern Europe. Arabs are from Arabia, not the Levant, which is where Palestine is located. The term "Palestine" is not even an Arab word. It is Greek, coined by the Romans to denote the region. Never was it used to denote a people. No one had ever referred to themselves as "Palestinian" until 1967 after the Six-Day-War. Before 1967, they were proudly Jordanian, proudly Syrian, proudly Lebanese, and proudly Saudi Arabian. Saudi Arabia refuses to acknowledge the Arabs in Palestine as a legitimate people. They reject the idea of there being a Palestinian people because they do not recognise them as their historical neighbour. Here you have a Hamas member saying that Palestinians are a modern made up people, that "they are just Saudis and Egyptians": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU#t=18

And finally, Lebanese journalist, Joseph Farah, wrote: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism."

We are dealing with history, not religion.

[Ucropi]

Fairytales don't make for a valid land lease.

Fairytales? Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Zionism is an atheist ideology defending Jewish ethnicity, not religion. There is concrete evidence of Jewish history on the land. The same cannot be said for the Arabs. Palestine is rich of Jewish archaeological history. This proves that Jews are native to this land. The Arabs did not arrive to Palestine until the Muslim Conquest which brought them through Palestine all the way through North Africa, ending in southern Europe. Arabs are from Arabia, not the Levant, which is where Palestine is located. The term "Palestine" is not even an Arab word. It is Greek, coined by the Romans to denote the region. Never was it used to denote a people. No one had ever referred to themselves as "Palestinian" until 1967 after the Six-Day-War. Before 1967, they were proudly Jordanian, proudly Syrian, proudly Lebanese, and proudly Saudi Arabian. Saudi Arabia refuses to acknowledge the Arabs in Palestine as a legitimate people. They reject the idea of there being a Palestinian people because they do not recognise them as their historical neighbour. Here you have a Hamas member saying that Palestinians are a modern made up people, that "they are just Saudis and Egyptians": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU#t=18

And finally, Lebanese journalist, Joseph Farah, wrote: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism."

We are dealing with history, not religion.

>Nothing to do with religion
>Jewish land

[Israel-Judah]

Zionsim is a form of Jewish extremism

There is nothing extreme about Zionism.

[Ucropi]

Zionsim is a form of Jewish extremism

There is nothing extreme about Zionism.

Well it's extreme-ly unnecessary. If there were no Muslims, Jews or Christians in the middle east there would be A LOT less conflict.

[Sxvoryia]

Fairytales don't make for a valid land lease.

Fairytales? Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Zionism is a political ideology defending Jewish ethnicity, not religion. There is concrete evidence of Jewish history on the land. The same cannot be said for the Arabs. Palestine is rich of Jewish archaeological history. This proves that Jews are native to this land. The Arabs did not arrive to Palestine until the Muslim Conquest which brought them through Palestine all the way through North Africa, ending in southern Europe. Arabs are from Arabia, not the Levant, which is where Palestine is located. The term "Palestine" is not even an Arab word. It is Greek, coined by the Romans to denote the region. Never was it used to denote a people. No one had ever referred to themselves as "Palestinian" until 1967 after the Six-Day-War. Before 1967, they were proudly Jordanian, proudly Syrian, proudly Lebanese, and proudly Saudi Arabian. Saudi Arabia refuses to acknowledge the Arabs in Palestine as a legitimate people. They reject the idea of there being a Palestinian people because they do not recognise them as their historical neighbour. Here you have a Hamas member saying that Palestinians are a modern made up people, that "they are just Saudis and Egyptians": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU#t=18

And finally, Lebanese journalist, Joseph Farah, wrote: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism."

We are dealing with history, not religion.

PALESTINE IS ALSO RICH OF PALESTINIAN ANCESTRY

SHOCKING HUH?

freaking hypocrite

in fact they have been their longer than any Jew

Palestinians have been their since Prehistoric times

[Neo Rome Republic]

Fairytales don't make for a valid land lease.

Fairytales? Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Zionism is an atheist ideology defending Jewish ethnicity, not religion. There is concrete evidence of Jewish history on the land. The same cannot be said for the Arabs. Palestine is rich of Jewish archaeological history. This proves that Jews are native to this land. The Arabs did not arrive to Palestine until the Muslim Conquest which brought them through Palestine all the way through North Africa, ending in southern Europe. Arabs are from Arabia, not the Levant, which is where Palestine is located. The term "Palestine" is not even an Arab word. It is Greek, coined by the Romans to denote the region. Never was it used to denote a people. No one had ever referred to themselves as "Palestinian" until 1967 after the Six-Day-War. Before 1967, they were proudly Jordanian, proudly Syrian, proudly Lebanese, and proudly Saudi Arabian. Saudi Arabia refuses to acknowledge the Arabs in Palestine as a legitimate people. They reject the idea of there being a Palestinian people because they do not recognise them as their historical neighbour. Here you have a Hamas member saying that Palestinians are a modern made up people, that "they are just Saudis and Egyptians": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU#t=18

And finally, Lebanese journalist, Joseph Farah, wrote: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism."

We are dealing with history, not religion.

I was telling that to the guy above me. Because he was using "Gawd" as an excuse. Well I don't like the idea of Ethnic Nationalism, so I don't support the idea of Zionism. However, I prefer Israel existence to Palestine, because I see the Israelis as the lesser of the evils. Seeing as Israel has a better standard of living than than it's Muslim neighbors, and is less barbaric to it's own people and less Religiously extreme than them. I'm more inclined to support it's existence due to the results of it's governing. Though I would prefer if they could live in peace, rather than constant conflict.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Fairytales don't make for a valid land lease.

Fairytales? Zionism has nothing to do with religion. Zionism is an atheist ideology defending Jewish ethnicity, not religion. There is concrete evidence of Jewish history on the land. The same cannot be said for the Arabs. Palestine is rich of Jewish archaeological history. This proves that Jews are native to this land. The Arabs did not arrive to Palestine until the Muslim Conquest which brought them through Palestine all the way through North Africa, ending in southern Europe. Arabs are from Arabia, not the Levant, which is where Palestine is located. The term "Palestine" is not even an Arab word. It is Greek, coined by the Romans to denote the region. Never was it used to denote a people. No one had ever referred to themselves as "Palestinian" until 1967 after the Six-Day-War. Before 1967, they were proudly Jordanian, proudly Syrian, proudly Lebanese, and proudly Saudi Arabian. Saudi Arabia refuses to acknowledge the Arabs in Palestine as a legitimate people. They reject the idea of there being a Palestinian people because they do not recognise them as their historical neighbour. Here you have a Hamas member saying that Palestinians are a modern made up people, that "they are just Saudis and Egyptians": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU#t=18

And finally, Lebanese journalist, Joseph Farah, wrote: "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism."

We are dealing with history, not religion.

If we're dealing with history then Italy should be given the territory of 43 nations cuz of the Roman Empire.