Nope, I'm talking about the Pontic genocide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide
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by Marcurix » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:27 pm
by Genivaria » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:29 pm
by Arumdaum » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:29 pm
Genivaria wrote:Libertarian California wrote:
Both occurred in a different time by nations who significantly different from what they are today. In some instances, like in the cases Spain, France, and Portugal, it's not even the same state.
And yet African decolonization only happened during the 1900's, so it really shouldn't be a surprise that the effects of colonization are still around.
In many cases the people who lived to see decolonization in their country are STILL ALIVE.
It's nowhere near the same.
by Baiynistan » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:31 pm
by Azaflaza » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:32 pm
Shnercropolis wrote:Arumdaum wrote:Whose opinions don't matter in this thread.
I don't think that systematic racism, the Atlantic Slave Trade, countries arbitrarily drawn without regard for the people living there, cultural genocide, actual genocide, etc. have turned out pretty damn well.
I don't think the destitution which the British brought to India has turned out "damn well," nor the backwardness caused upon China through unequal treaties.
However, then again, you only seem to care for people's opinions when they're white.
I don't get what you're talking about. You said colonization was a mistake, I said it wasn't because it turned out to the advantage of the people who did it, which makes it not a mistake.
I think it was atrocious, mostly because of the things you listed. Just because I (or you) think something is bad doesn't mean it was a mistake.
by Arumdaum » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:35 pm
by The New Lowlands » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:35 pm
Arumdaum wrote:Genivaria wrote:And yet African decolonization only happened during the 1900's, so it really shouldn't be a surprise that the effects of colonization are still around.
In many cases the people who lived to see decolonization in their country are STILL ALIVE.
It's nowhere near the same.
Not to mention that the effects of it will stick around much longer than those people are alive, such as the 1) adherence to white beauty standards (which causes nonwhite people to view themselves as uglier), 2) the sentiment that nonwhite peoples are inferior (as we regularly see in threads like these when people say that Africans can't govern themselves and need to be recolonized), 3) numerous African countries are still stuck with the economic structures created for them by Europeans which made their economies dependent upon exports to Western countries, and so on.
by Marcurix » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:37 pm
by Shnercropolis » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:37 pm
Azaflaza wrote:Shnercropolis wrote:I don't get what you're talking about. You said colonization was a mistake, I said it wasn't because it turned out to the advantage of the people who did it, which makes it not a mistake.
I think it was atrocious, mostly because of the things you listed. Just because I (or you) think something is bad doesn't mean it was a mistake.
Considering European colonialism was one of the factors that set off both world wars which in turn marked the end of European dominance and collapsed many empires leaving Europe with the problem of supporting countries made from exploiting resources they no longer have. I would say colonialism was a mistake.
by Utceforp » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:37 pm
Genivaria wrote:Utceforp wrote:They're not obligated due to colonialism, seeing as most of the people involved with colonialism are dead and all. However, rich, prosperous countries really should help third world countries, so they're obligated for that reason.
Because wanting a stable world is just 'White Guilt' somehow.
Genivaria wrote:Shnercropolis wrote:It's actually to the advantage of the West, if they play their cards right.
It's the advantage of everyone, and yet everyone is more concerned with short-sighted, nationalistic desires.
So-called 'International Realism' needs to be stabbed to death.
A world where nations put national interests before the interests of humanity are just as chaotic and unsustainable as everyone in a community looking out only for themselves.
by Libertarian California » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:39 pm
by Shnercropolis » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:40 pm
Arumdaum wrote:Shnercropolis wrote:See: India, China, South Africa(not until recently, but meh), and more.
India and China were set back heavily due to colonization.
India's economy was purposely destroyed and made to be dependent upon the import of British goods, and China subsequently suffered due to unequal treaties. If neither were made to suffer these, China and India would have been in a better state historically, and probably today as well.
China was never actually colonized as well, merely divided into spheres of influence.
by Azaflaza » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:40 pm
Shnercropolis wrote:Azaflaza wrote:Considering European colonialism was one of the factors that set off both world wars which in turn marked the end of European dominance and collapsed many empires leaving Europe with the problem of supporting countries made from exploiting resources they no longer have. I would say colonialism was a mistake.
Europe was doomed to blow up ever since Napoleon marched out from France.
by The New Lowlands » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:41 pm
by Shnercropolis » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:42 pm
by Azaflaza » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:43 pm
by Shnercropolis » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:45 pm
by Arumdaum » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:46 pm
Shnercropolis wrote:Arumdaum wrote:India and China were set back heavily due to colonization.
India's economy was purposely destroyed and made to be dependent upon the import of British goods, and China subsequently suffered due to unequal treaties. If neither were made to suffer these, China and India would have been in a better state historically, and probably today as well.
China was never actually colonized as well, merely divided into spheres of influence.
If they hadn't been colonized by Britain, India would have collapsed. The Mughals were seriously outdated. Indian standards of living shot up in the early 1900s.
If they hadn't been colonized by Japan, China would never have had a communist revolution(the nationalists would have probably won) and thus it probably wouldn't have industrialized so fast.
Anyway, Hong Kong and Macau definitely benefited from European colonization.
by Ostroeuropa » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:48 pm
by Utceforp » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:48 pm
Azaflaza wrote:The New Lowlands wrote:Wasn't there some kind of kerfuffle in France related to it? No?
Not sure if genuinely asking but if so yes there was the French Revolution which is believed to be inspired by the American revolution, a product of colonialism. But now we are getting into the long chain of events which european colonialism has set off.
Ostroeuropa wrote:All nations are obligated to assist all peoples who are suffering under tyranny or destitution.
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