Should the UK loosen handgun restrictions?

[The 54th Squadron]

And if a guy starts shooting at you with his illegally acquired handgun?

Well then you're going to die.

I know you might have it in your head that you're going to whip out a gun and put down a bunch of armed aggressors, but that's some Hollywood shit. You're probably fucked if you get ambushed, sorry.

I carry a gun on me at all times, if you know what I mean. It's not just Hollywood shit.

[New Aerios]

And if a guy starts shooting at you with his illegally acquired handgun?

Well then you're going to die. Same's true everywhere.

I know you might have it in your head that you're going to whip out a gun and put down a bunch of armed aggressors, but that's some Hollywood shit. You're probably fucked if you get ambushed, sorry.

So it's better to accept the notion that you're definitely going to die in a confrontation and therefore there is no point to self defence, rather than have the option of defending yourself to increase your small chance of surviving? Fuck that shit.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

I carry a gun on me at all times, if you know what I mean.

Wow.

[Infected Mushroom]

No.

I think if they do so, they may approach the unfortunate situation in the US with gun violence.

At any rate, if it were up to me, no one would be allowed to own handguns except the police and the military. I don't want individuals to be able to shoot up entire neighborhoods...

[The 54th Squadron]

I carry a gun on me at all times, if you know what I mean.

Wow.

I know, my Smith and Wesson looks nice in my holster.

[Yngen]

So it's better to accept the notion that you're definitely going to die in a confrontation and therefore there is no point to self defence, rather than have the option of defending yourself to increase your small chance of surviving? Fuck that shit.

Yes. Stop thinking in such black-and-white terms. The miniscule improvement that being armed offers to your chances of survival when attacked by a gunman is not worth the increased incidence of said gunmen that will occur when guns are made more widely available.

The idea that 'oh criminals ignore the law and will still have guns' is hideously flawed.
- More legal guns = more guns available in general, for stealing, counterfeiting, just more guns physically present in the country
- If guns are legal, it's HARDER to work out which are illegal and which aren't
- Many gun crimes are committed by legally owned guns in any case

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Wow.

I know, my Smith and Wesson looks nice in my holster.

Yeah? I'm sure it's keeping your manhood intact.

[New Babylonia]

So it's better to accept the notion that you're definitely going to die in a confrontation and therefore there is no point to self defence, rather than have the option of defending yourself to increase your small chance of surviving? Fuck that shit.

Yes. Stop thinking in such black-and-white terms. The miniscule improvement that being armed offers to your chances of survival when attacked by a gunman is not worth the increased incidence of said gunmen that will occur when guns are made more widely available.

The idea that 'oh criminals ignore the law and will still have guns' is hideously flawed.
- More legal guns = more guns available in general, for stealing, counterfeiting, just more guns physically present in the country
- If guns are legal, it's HARDER to work out which are illegal and which aren't
- Many gun crimes are committed by legally owned guns in any case

1. They do that anyway, you just don't see it.
2. Its still difficult if they are illegal, because, again, you won't see them until its too late.
3. Because in a place they are legal, they don't have to go through a middle man to get it illegally. And, in fact, in many cases, the weapon being used is not being done so by its owner. So while the gun is legal, the person holding it does legally have the right to. Making their holding the weapon illegal, and the making the weapon itself illegal.

[Imperializt Russia]

Being serious, musket balls are a basic lead cast that needs no precision to manufacture. Black powder is a class 2 explosive that is not enormously difficult, but very dangerous, to produce.

Well, people run bomb factories and meth labs. What's a black-powder factory going to do?
Oh wait, be useless, because gangs of children are already to acquire handguns, rifles and shotguns and the live ammunition to operate them.

Fine, we can legalize handguns! Just not the ammunition. It'll be funny watching gangsters pistol whipping each other to death in the streets. We should also issue police flame-throwers.

Or, you know, they'd not bother, and instead continue acquiring and using illegally-obtained rifles and handguns and their illegally-obtained ammunition.

[Yngen]

1. They do that anyway, you just don't see it.
2. Its still difficult if they are illegal, because, again, you won't see them until its too late.
3. Because in a place they are legal, they don't have to go through a middle man to get it illegally. And, in fact, in many cases, the weapon being used is not being done so by its owner. So while the gun is legal, the person holding it does legally have the right to. Making their holding the weapon illegal, and the making the weapon itself illegal.

1 - Nowhere in my post did I suggest that gun restrictions eliminate guns entirely. Yes, I know they 'do it anyway', but if you seriously think that there are as many illegal guns in the UK, per capita, as there are in America, you are a silly person.
2 - But the police in the UK see a gun and go "that is illegal, stop that man." In America they see guns all the time and almost stop noticing them (not saying American police are morons who don't spot danger, just that to British police, a gun sticks out like a sore thumb). In the UK, you seem some idiot with a hand cannon strapped to their hip in the supermarket, you run for cover. In the US, you just assume it's your local underendowed douchebag, until the moment he decides he's no longer contended with society and starts shooting.
3 - Which makes the point that registering guns and the idea of 'responsible gun owners' is kind of invalid, and also backs up my first point - the more legal guns there are, the more guns there physically are in the country to be exploited by criminals

[Luziyca]

No. End of.

[Kouralia]

Being serious, musket balls are a basic lead cast that needs no precision to manufacture. Black powder is a class 2 explosive that is not enormously difficult, but very dangerous, to produce.

Well, people run bomb factories and meth labs. What's a black-powder factory going to do?
Oh wait, be useless, because gangs of children are already to acquire handguns, rifles and shotguns and the live ammunition to operate them.

Fine, we can legalize handguns! Just not the ammunition. It'll be funny watching gangsters pistol whipping each other to death in the streets. We should also issue police flame-throwers.

Something from Sickipedia that's relevant: The Police say their operation to remove the Travellers from Dale Farm could cost as much as £12 million.

It better be a damned good flamethrower for that much.

[New Aerios]

No. End of.

Obviously not end of, since there are people who disagree with you...

[Grinning Dragon]

YES!

[Geilinor]

Yes. Stop thinking in such black-and-white terms. The miniscule improvement that being armed offers to your chances of survival when attacked by a gunman is not worth the increased incidence of said gunmen that will occur when guns are made more widely available.

The idea that 'oh criminals ignore the law and will still have guns' is hideously flawed.
- More legal guns = more guns available in general, for stealing, counterfeiting, just more guns physically present in the country
- If guns are legal, it's HARDER to work out which are illegal and which aren't
- Many gun crimes are committed by legally owned guns in any case

1. They do that anyway, you just don't see it.
2. Its still difficult if they are illegal, because, again, you won't see them until its too late.
3. Because in a place they are legal, they don't have to go through a middle man to get it illegally. And, in fact, in many cases, the weapon being used is not being done so by its owner. So while the gun is legal, the person holding it does legally have the right to. Making their holding the weapon illegal, and the making the weapon itself illegal.

How many murders are carried out with stolen guns?

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Yeah probably should.

[Val Nube]

... In the US, you just assume it's your local underendowed douchebag...

This is a stupid thing that needs to stop. "Oh, you own guns? Sorry about your small penis, bro." What is this even supposed to imply? When a criminal is about to beat/stab/shoot me, am I supposed to drop my pants and show him my dick? Is there some sort of unspoken criminal code that when a potential victim presents a cock over a certain length, you are obligated to lower your weapon, slowly nodding your head in approval in an enlightened understanding of anatomy and biology before letting me go on my way? Are pants and underwear the true obstacles of safety and freedom instead of gun legislation? What does this mean for a woman? Is she also compensating for her small penis? Nevermind that the whole thing is a violation of Markley's Law.

[Yngen]

This is a stupid thing that needs to stop. "Oh, you own guns? Sorry about your small penis, bro." What is this even supposed to imply? When a criminal is about to beat/stab/shoot me, am I supposed to drop my pants and show him my dick? Is there some sort of unspoken criminal code that when a potential victim presents a cock over a certain length, you are obligated to lower your weapon, slowly nodding your head in approval in an enlightened understanding of anatomy and biology before letting me go on my way? Are pants and underwear the true obstacles of safety and freedom instead of gun legislation? What does this mean for a woman? Is she also compensating for her small penis? Nevermind that the whole thing is a violation of Markley's Law.

Actually yes, that wonderful piece of completely irrelevant nonsense is entirely correct and you are very right to have referenced Godwin's Markley's law: I'm desperately sorry for having used offensive terms to describe the persecuted minority of people who need to buy guns. Gun owners are people too, they didn't choose to be this way.

[Imperializt Russia]

1. They do that anyway, you just don't see it.
2. Its still difficult if they are illegal, because, again, you won't see them until its too late.
3. Because in a place they are legal, they don't have to go through a middle man to get it illegally. And, in fact, in many cases, the weapon being used is not being done so by its owner. So while the gun is legal, the person holding it does legally have the right to. Making their holding the weapon illegal, and the making the weapon itself illegal.

How many murders are carried out with stolen guns?

Whilst an obvious implication, technically no-one with a handgun, sawn-off shotgun or semi-automatic rifle in the UK "owns" one. Because they're illegal firearms.

IIRC in the UK, stolen firearms don't make up many firearm homicides. Far more probably occur from generally illegal smuggled weapons and air weapons.

[The Nihilistic view]

Marginally but only as to enable our Olympians and future prospects to be able train in our country.

[The UK in Exile]

You've got one, its called the Human Rights Act.

Yeah, about that... doesn't that have an article somewhere stating that the British people have the right to have weapons? Which was infringed years ago now due to massive draconian and ineffective gun laws?

No.

In fact, fuck no. This demonstrates a level of inaccuracy that would be astounding if it wasn't typical of you comments on the topic to date.

[The Nihilistic view]

How many murders are carried out with stolen guns?

Whilst an obvious implication, technically no-one with a handgun, sawn-off shotgun or semi-automatic rifle in the UK "owns" one. Because they're illegal firearms.

IIRC in the UK, stolen firearms don't make up many firearm homicides. Far more probably occur from generally illegal smuggled weapons and air weapons.

No, I would say no more that half a dozen gun murders a year are from firearms that are legal with a license that have been stolen. Most of them are from illegal handguns used by gangs. But that's still only about 40 per year.

[Salandriagado]

Are you completely and utterly incapable of following a train of thought over more than one post?


To spell it out for you: the effective removal of most handguns from circulations reduces the percentage of violent crimes that result in deaths, thus reducing the murder rate.

Yes, you however seem to be incapable of making a better constructed argument against my other posts.

As for your theory on the handgun ban: No it doesn't reduce murder and it did not have any effect in this case either. I've stated the reasons why on my previous posts so I'm not repeating myself to you.

False. You have already admitted that banning handguns directly reduces the percentage of violent crimes that result in deaths. The rest follows directly.

[Chernoslavia]

Yes, you however seem to be incapable of making a better constructed argument against my other posts.

As for your theory on the handgun ban: No it doesn't reduce murder and it did not have any effect in this case either. I've stated the reasons why on my previous posts so I'm not repeating myself to you.

False. You have already admitted that banning handguns directly reduces the percentage of violent crimes that result in deaths. The rest follows directly.

I have never said that anywhere.

[NFA]

The UK should get rid of most of its gun laws. I mean for a country that is so called "free" some of its laws are pretty Damn oppressive.