Should the UK loosen handgun restrictions?

[Chernoslavia]

I understand where this is coming from, but generally when someone says that a law or ruling is draconian, they mean that it's harsh. Not that it's as abusive as Draco's constitution.

Even so, I wouldn't call a blanket ban on firearms 'draconian' by any means. There really isn't much need for the populace to be armed, given that the amount of gun crime in Britain is very low.

It has always been low, even before the ban! Your taking away people's private possession for no reason than for false sense of security. I thought I've already said this like 5 times.

[Horizont]

Even so, I wouldn't call a blanket ban on firearms 'draconian' by any means. There really isn't much need for the populace to be armed, given that the amount of gun crime in Britain is very low.

It has always been low, even before the ban! Your taking away people's private possession for no reason than for false sense of security. I thought I've already said this like 5 times.

That's not my point. My point is that the status quo is now like this, and that regardless of how it came to be so, there's no reason to change it.

[Eurolandia]

I am a liberal so less regulations is always the solution! Not just the UK but whole of Europe should end this restrictive laws.
Let us all be free like Czech Republic.

[Chernoslavia]

I am a liberal so less regulations is always the solution! Not just the UK but whole of Europe should end this restrictive laws.
Let us all be free like Czech Republic.

Not sure if this is sarcasm but I agree. Every category of firearms are legal from handguns to semi-auto rifles to machine guns and the murder rate is very low.

[Solaray]

I understand where this is coming from, but generally when someone says that a law or ruling is draconian, they mean that it's harsh. Not that it's as abusive as Draco's constitution.

Even so, I wouldn't call a blanket ban on firearms 'draconian' by any means. There really isn't much need for the populace to be armed, given that the amount of gun crime in Britain is very low.

What if people want to use guns for target shooting or hunting? They aren't just for self defense.

[Chernoslavia]

It has always been low, even before the ban! Your taking away people's private possession for no reason than for false sense of security. I thought I've already said this like 5 times.

there's no reason to change it.

Yeah there is, this law was implemented to keep society safe am I right? So if that's the case then why is it still necessary to keep this law if it has failed to do what it was meant to do? Yes, gun murders in the UK is low so what difference will it make to legalize handguns I get it, but your keeping responsible law-abiding citizens from owning handguns and wrongfully seized innocent people's private property and all for what? For no damn reason!

[New Babylonia]

It has always been low, even before the ban! Your taking away people's private possession for no reason than for false sense of security. I thought I've already said this like 5 times.

That's not my point. My point is that the status quo is now like this, and that regardless of how it came to be so, there's no reason to change it.

As said before, there was no reason to instate it.

NEWS FLASH KIDS!

Taking guns away doesn't reduce crime! And, hey, guess what, murder is the same way! Wanna know what else kills great (Assuming i can't afford a handgun) A knife! 'Oh but it doesn't have range. Throwing knives are relatively easy to learn. Knives are also quite, easily concealed, and learning to walk and move silently to stalk your prey and kill them is very simple for any person determined to kill someone.

I also disagree, Switzerland as used is a good example. There are towns in Texas that haven't had crimes in decades (According to my Uncle who lives in one such town) because - and, get this- guns. No one tries to commit a crime, because everyone has a gun on them.

Another funny thing, your average citizen, will never use a firearm for anything that isn't safe recreation or defense. And criminals, mind you, do not need guns to commit crime. And, let's be honest here, what makes you think criminals (Or outlaws) Wont have guns? They're called outlaws for a reason, they live OUTSIDE the law, they don't follow it.

There was no reason to institute it, statistics show that the law has made little to no change in rates of violent crime, and i keep shaking my head every time i see a video of a London cop getting stabbed by four guys because the best they got is a baton. Hell at least let the police have 'em.

[Kouralia]

i keep shaking my head every time i see a video of a London cop getting stabbed by four guys because the best they got is a baton. Hell at least let the police have 'em.

I keep shaking my head whenever I see a video of a US cop being shot to death because... I dunno, the best they've got isn't precognition. How often exactly do you see these videos of officers getting stabbed? According to Wiki, since the end of 2000 there have been 5 killed by being run over and 5 other vehicle-based collisions (intentional or not), 3 stabbings, 3 'Collapsed and later died' and six shootings.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yes, I'm sure the IRA has stopped buying illegal guns for their attacks on military forces because of this law.

What attacks on military forces?

British Army recruitment offices and assassination and attempted assassination of Ulster Constabulary forces that have continued into this decade.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

All aboard the nope train to fuck that shitville. You must be completely out of your mind to think this is a good idea, can you imagine some of the already gang-ridden areas if this occurred? It'd be like taking a walk in Fallujah with a US Army uniform.

[Val Nube]

Perhaps they could be loosened just a little bit, if the people want it as such. Maybe a referendum on the matter to get an idea of public opinion?

A referendum would only confirm that the public is massively in favour of the ban as it stands. Only a few months ago, national idiot Nigel Farage called for the ban to be lifted, and was roundly criticised by pretty much everyone.

[url=Apparently not everyone agrees.]http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3644/britain_wants_its_guns_back[/url]

I was thinking more about america.

I can understand why people would want to loosen legislation for sport guns. But not self defence. A self defence gun can be easily become a murder weapon.

Even if they do legalize handguns valid reasons for owning one will probably not include self defense. Self defense hasn't been a valid reason to own a weapon in the UK since 1960 something (except NI).

Not to be all 'Murican up your discussion, but is self defense even an option over there? It seems like half the articles I read about the UK are about people being arrested for defending themselves against criminals.

The statistics can't be interpreted in a vacuum. To try and do so is intellectually dishonest.

Then the same could be said for comparing violent crime rates.



I mean, it is not just a coincidence that the United States ranks #1, and the UK ranks #24 among developed countries.

The US is only #2. The fine print mentions that they excluded the number one nation, probably because it woukd dwarf the US' total.

It has always been low, even before the ban! Your taking away people's private possession for no reason than for false sense of security. I thought I've already said this like 5 times.

That's not my point. My point is that the status quo is now like this, and that regardless of how it came to be so, there's no reason to change it.

This is a terrible argument for anything. Slavery was the status quo, as were such things as anti-homosexuality laws (just look what you assholes did to Turing). But they were the status quo and as such shouldn't have been changed, right?

[Imperializt Russia]

All aboard the nope train to fuck that shitville. You must be completely out of your mind to think this is a good idea, can you imagine some of the already gang-ridden areas if this occurred? It'd be like taking a walk in Fallujah with a US Army uniform.

Don't quit your day job, that joke wasn't funny.

Wait.
You were serious.

Why do you believe that legalising the sale and ownership of handguns, given the UK's strict licensing requirements for the sale and ownership of firearms in general, will suddenly lead the UK to be in a civil war?
If you're worried about illegal firearms, that's already an enormous issue, with almost all of them being smuggled into the country. An American defence contractor was recently convicted with smuggling as many as eighty handguns into the UK via airports, likely many more. Police in Manchester and Liverpool have confiscated some of these firearms that made it onto the black market, some of which had already been used in fatal gang shootings.

Legalising the sale and ownership of firearms in this country will not suddenly open the floodgates on gang warfare. Those were already open.

[The 54th Squadron]

Fuck handgun restrictions, let them have fully automatic assault rifles.

[Nimzonia]

A referendum would only confirm that the public is massively in favour of the ban as it stands. Only a few months ago, national idiot Nigel Farage called for the ban to be lifted, and was roundly criticised by pretty much everyone.

[url=Apparently not everyone agrees.]http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3644/britain_wants_its_guns_back[/url]

So the source for that is one online poll run by the Telegraph, which I doubt was even geographically restricted. Furthermore, all you have to do is clear your cookies, and you can vote as many times as you want. You can even get around the Telegraph's free article limit by clearing your cookies, which is rather a technical oversight.

[Frostmark]

Fuck handguns, legalise sword canes.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

Fuck handguns, legalise sword canes.

I for one, support the legalisation of Muskets. We could have line-battles to settle disputes and imagine the gang-wars!

[Imperializt Russia]

Fuck handguns, legalise sword canes.

I for one, support the legalisation of Muskets. We could have line-battles to settle disputes and imagine the gang-wars!

But then shootings would become more accurate.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

I for one, support the legalisation of Muskets. We could have line-battles to settle disputes and imagine the gang-wars!

But then shootings would become more accurate.

That's why we don't legalize the ammunition.

[The 54th Squadron]

But then shootings would become more accurate.

That's why we don't legalize the ammunition.

I'll make my own, then.

But seriously, they need to legalize AR's.

[Imperializt Russia]

But then shootings would become more accurate.

That's why we don't legalize the ammunition.

Being serious, musket balls are a basic lead cast that needs no precision to manufacture. Black powder is a class 2 explosive that is not enormously difficult, but very dangerous, to produce.

Well, people run bomb factories and meth labs. What's a black-powder factory going to do?
Oh wait, be useless, because gangs of children are already to acquire handguns, rifles and shotguns and the live ammunition to operate them.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Not to be all 'Murican up your discussion, but is self defense even an option over there?

Yes, within limits.

If somebody starts on you and you pin them down while your mates call the police, there'll probably be an understanding that it's OK, so long as there were witnesses, although you'll likely see the inside of a police station.

If some teenager tries to take your phone off you and you beat them to within an inch of their life, no matter how much they had it coming, you're probably off to jail.

[The Vekta-Helghast Empire]

That's why we don't legalize the ammunition.

Being serious, musket balls are a basic lead cast that needs no precision to manufacture. Black powder is a class 2 explosive that is not enormously difficult, but very dangerous, to produce.

Well, people run bomb factories and meth labs. What's a black-powder factory going to do?
Oh wait, be useless, because gangs of children are already to acquire handguns, rifles and shotguns and the live ammunition to operate them.

Fine, we can legalize handguns! Just not the ammunition. It'll be funny watching gangsters pistol whipping each other to death in the streets. We should also issue police flame-throwers.

[Yngen]

No

If you want to satisfy your need to play at soldiers, then grow a pair and actually join the military. If you don't like the British army there's several international forces who accept British citizens.
Britain has had what, three mass shootings in the last two decades, compared to how many in countries like the US where gun ownership is legal? There is absolutely no reason to allow the proliferation of tools designed solely for killing. "muh freedom" is not an acceptable reason to arm the country, and there is practically no hunting to be had in Britain - our wildlife populations are carefully managed and grouse shooting is shotgun-based and strictly regulated.

There are no benefits to easing gun ownership restrictions
- the idea that citizens could use private guns to resist a modern military is laughable. Even the Americans vaunted Revolutionary War was won by imported French arms (and French personnel and warships), and the law was introduced to prevent the charges of treason being laid against American POW's, not to arm the general populace
- if you like target shooting so much, find something like archery that requires just as much finesse AND gets you healthy
- if you want to be free of pesky government regulations, go somewhere 'free'. If you want to live in a civilised country, stay in Britain and accept that society has rules and that you can't have everything you ever want
- your "private property" is not being "stolen from you". You don't own a gun, therefore the ban is not 'taking' anything from you, no more than the ban on slavery is not stealing your property because you don't own slaves (and even if you did you should be ashamed)

[New Aerios]

Not to be all 'Murican up your discussion, but is self defense even an option over there?

Yes, within limits.

If somebody starts on you and you pin them down while your mates call the police, there'll probably be an understanding that it's OK, so long as there were witnesses, although you'll likely see the inside of a police station.

If some teenager tries to take your phone off you and you beat them to within an inch of their life, no matter how much they had it coming, you're probably off to jail.

And if a guy starts shooting at you with his illegally acquired handgun?

[Allet Klar Chefs]

And if a guy starts shooting at you with his illegally acquired handgun?

Well then you're going to die. Same's true everywhere.

I know you might have it in your head that you're going to whip out a gun and put down a bunch of armed aggressors, but that's some Hollywood shit. You're probably fucked if you get ambushed, sorry.