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by Angleter » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:11 am
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:10 am
by Atlanticatia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:33 am
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:37 am
Atlanticatia wrote:No.
The UK has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. It's .04/100,000 people. The USA, for comparison, is 3/100,000. I also think that the police should remain without guns. So you're 75x more likely to be murdered with a gun in the USA than the UK. Overall, the UK murder rate is 1.0/100,000 people, compared to the USA at 4.8/100,000 people.
So the gun law seems to be working. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:43 am
Atlanticatia wrote:No.
The UK has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. It's .04/100,000 people. The USA, for comparison, is 3/100,000. I also think that the police should remain without guns. So you're 75x more likely to be murdered with a gun in the USA than the UK. Overall, the UK murder rate is 1.0/100,000 people, compared to the USA at 4.8/100,000 people.
So the gun law seems to be working. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:44 am
Frazers wrote:Atlanticatia wrote:No.
The UK has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. It's .04/100,000 people. The USA, for comparison, is 3/100,000. I also think that the police should remain without guns. So you're 75x more likely to be murdered with a gun in the USA than the UK. Overall, the UK murder rate is 1.0/100,000 people, compared to the USA at 4.8/100,000 people.
So the gun law seems to be working. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
There's something very strange in UK political debates these days where everything is debated in comparison to the US positions.
It's unsettling that we seem to be defining ourselves by our differences to the US.
by Second scholmerian republic » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:48 am
by Horizont » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:51 am
Frazers wrote:Atlanticatia wrote:No.
The UK has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. It's .04/100,000 people. The USA, for comparison, is 3/100,000. I also think that the police should remain without guns. So you're 75x more likely to be murdered with a gun in the USA than the UK. Overall, the UK murder rate is 1.0/100,000 people, compared to the USA at 4.8/100,000 people.
So the gun law seems to be working. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
There's something very strange in UK political debates these days where everything is debated in comparison to the US positions.
It's unsettling that we seem to be defining ourselves by our differences to the US.
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:55 am
Horizont wrote:Frazers wrote:
There's something very strange in UK political debates these days where everything is debated in comparison to the US positions.
It's unsettling that we seem to be defining ourselves by our differences to the US.
I believe he was comparing it to the US due to the US being an obvious example of a nation that had legalized firearms.
by Atlanticatia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:57 am
Chernoslavia wrote:Atlanticatia wrote:No.
The UK has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. It's .04/100,000 people. The USA, for comparison, is 3/100,000. I also think that the police should remain without guns. So you're 75x more likely to be murdered with a gun in the USA than the UK. Overall, the UK murder rate is 1.0/100,000 people, compared to the USA at 4.8/100,000 people.
So the gun law seems to be working. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
England and Wales alone has a crime record of over 2,000 violent crimes per 100,000. Now add Scotland and Norther Ireland and it gets even higher so, yes. Loosen restrictions on handguns, with some exceptions of course.
Create a licensing system for the possession and public carry of handguns. Include mandatory training on the safe use and storage of handguns. And require people to pass a background check.
I believe he was comparing it to the US due to the US being an obvious example of a nation that had legalized firearms.
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 11:58 am
Atlanticatia wrote:Basically, there is no evidence to suggest loosening handgun restrictions will decrease gun violence or decrease overall violent crime.
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:00 pm
Second scholmerian republic wrote:No, there are to mayn dangerous groups in the UK, like for instance the wahabis have great followship in the UK. If the UK had loosen handgun resticrions in the past than the Woolwich massacre would be even worse and te London bombing also.
by Atlanticatia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:02 pm
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:03 pm
Atlanticatia wrote:Cross-country comparison isn't comparing apples to oranges.
by Greed and Death » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:04 pm
by Alyakia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:04 pm
Frazers wrote:Atlanticatia wrote:No.
The UK has one of the lowest gun homicide rates in the world. It's .04/100,000 people. The USA, for comparison, is 3/100,000. I also think that the police should remain without guns. So you're 75x more likely to be murdered with a gun in the USA than the UK. Overall, the UK murder rate is 1.0/100,000 people, compared to the USA at 4.8/100,000 people.
So the gun law seems to be working. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
There's something very strange in UK political debates these days where everything is debated in comparison to the US positions.
It's unsettling that we seem to be defining ourselves by our differences to the US.
by Atlanticatia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:05 pm
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:07 pm
Atlanticatia wrote:Frazers wrote:
You make no comparison of culture, security leaks at borders, drivers for crime, etc when interpreting those statistics.
Apples and Oranges.
So the fact that the gun homicide rate is 75x higher in the US than the UK is just incidental, and completely irrelevant? Even if you compare cultures, etc it is still quite hard to downplay that fact.
by Atlanticatia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:10 pm
Frazers wrote:Atlanticatia wrote:
So the fact that the gun homicide rate is 75x higher in the US than the UK is just incidental, and completely irrelevant? Even if you compare cultures, etc it is still quite hard to downplay that fact.
The statistics can't be interpreted in a vacuum. To try and do so is intellectually dishonest.
by Paixao » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:12 pm
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:13 pm
Atlanticatia wrote:Frazers wrote:
The statistics can't be interpreted in a vacuum. To try and do so is intellectually dishonest.
Then the same could be said for comparing violent crime rates.
I mean, it is not just a coincidence that the United States ranks #1, and the UK ranks #24 among developed countries.
by Imperializt Russia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:14 pm
Paixao wrote:Loosened up - so that you can pay to fire a pistol/rifle at a range where you get given the gun then must return it at the end of the firing session could be quite profitable. It'd set up a new business in the UK.
However letting more guns out onto the streets - in any shape, way or form is a huge freaking no-no.
Also,Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.
by Angleter » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:17 pm
Frazers wrote:Atlanticatia wrote:
Then the same could be said for comparing violent crime rates.
I mean, it is not just a coincidence that the United States ranks #1, and the UK ranks #24 among developed countries.
Again, i'll repeat it so it sticks :
I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S A COINCIDENCE.
I do however believe that the cause of the matter may not simply be gun legislation and therefore altered legislation in the UK need not produce a massive rise in gun crime.
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:25 pm
Atlanticatia wrote:Chernoslavia wrote:
England and Wales alone has a crime record of over 2,000 violent crimes per 100,000. Now add Scotland and Norther Ireland and it gets even higher so, yes. Loosen restrictions on handguns, with some exceptions of course.
Create a licensing system for the possession and public carry of handguns. Include mandatory training on the safe use and storage of handguns. And require people to pass a background check.
You can't compare apples to oranges. Firstly, the USA and the UK define a "violent crime" very differently.
Secondly, that number comes from a meme, which PolitiFact gave a rating of "False".I believe he was comparing it to the US due to the US being an obvious example of a nation that had legalized firearms.
That's correct.
Basically, there is no evidence to suggest loosening handgun restrictions will decrease gun violence or decrease overall violent crime.
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