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by Angleter » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:47 pm
Chernoslavia wrote:Angleter wrote:
It wasn't broke when we banned handguns in the first place.
Yes it was because it didn't really do anything to reduce crime. All it did was just made the government seize people's private possession. That's never a good thing, no matter what you say to justify it. If the British wanted to distinguish themselves so much from the US, then congrats to them because they've already achieved that with their bullshit authoritarian government.
by The UK in Exile » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:49 pm
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:00 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:Chernoslavia wrote:
No, then you wont learn anything. You on the other hand could do your part and prove how my statements are wrong, which you aren't doing... though not to my surprise.
Because its irrelevant, It was low, its now lower and the number of fatalities, as opposed to the number of incidents, has declined also.
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:00 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:Chernoslavia wrote:
No, then you wont learn anything. You on the other hand could do your part and prove how my statements are wrong, which you aren't doing... though not to my surprise.
Because its irrelevant, It was low, its now lower and the number of fatalities, as opposed to the number of incidents, has declined also.
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:01 pm
Frazers wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
Because its irrelevant, It was low, its now lower and the number of fatalities, as opposed to the number of incidents, has declined also.
Could I ask a favour. I may have missed it earlier but could you :
a) Source that
b) Demonstrate the link between the gun ban and the reduction
by Washington Resistance Army » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:01 pm
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:03 pm
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:03 pm
Angleter wrote:Chernoslavia wrote:
Yes it was because it didn't really do anything to reduce crime. All it did was just made the government seize people's private possession. That's never a good thing, no matter what you say to justify it. If the British wanted to distinguish themselves so much from the US, then congrats to them because they've already achieved that with their bullshit authoritarian government.
That's what I was saying - there was no need to 'fix' anything by banning handguns back in '97. It's ironic that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' should be invoked now in favour of keeping that ban in place.
by The UK in Exile » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:05 pm
Frazers wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
Because its irrelevant, It was low, its now lower and the number of fatalities, as opposed to the number of incidents, has declined also.
Could I ask a favour. I may have missed it earlier but could you :
a) Source that
b) Demonstrate the link between the gun ban and the reduction
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:11 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:since the only way to prove it would be to repeal the ban, like I said: I'm not desperate enough for the UK to net the Gold Medal in shooting to find out.
by The UK in Exile » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:13 pm
Frazers wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:since the only way to prove it would be to repeal the ban, like I said: I'm not desperate enough for the UK to net the Gold Medal in shooting to find out.
I doubt that's the case. I'm sure there are plenty of economists willing and able to make a strong case for or against the link.
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:14 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:Frazers wrote:
Could I ask a favour. I may have missed it earlier but could you :
a) Source that
b) Demonstrate the link between the gun ban and the reduction
A)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384
http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports ... ce-uk.html
B) search me guvnor, however, since the only way to prove it would be to repeal the ban, like I said: I'm not desperate enough for the UK to net the Gold Medal in shooting to find out.
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:14 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:Frazers wrote:
I doubt that's the case. I'm sure there are plenty of economists willing and able to make a strong case for or against the link.
As am I, but thats rather the problem isn't it? there are plenty of economists willing to make a strong case for or against the link.
If there was actually a strong case, they'd all be taking the same side.
by The UK in Exile » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:16 pm
Chernoslavia wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
A)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384
http://www.citizensreportuk.org/reports ... ce-uk.html
B) search me guvnor, however, since the only way to prove it would be to repeal the ban, like I said: I'm not desperate enough for the UK to net the Gold Medal in shooting to find out.
A) Okay fair enough, though I dont trust your bbc source as they fail to cite their sources and they advocate policy. Citizensreport on the other hand seems more trusting.
B) Agreed.
by The UK in Exile » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:21 pm
Frazers wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
As am I, but thats rather the problem isn't it? there are plenty of economists willing to make a strong case for or against the link.
If there was actually a strong case, they'd all be taking the same side.
Which suggests any changes aren't particularly significant one way or the other.
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:24 pm
by The UK in Exile » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:27 pm
Frazers wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
It suggests the issue of what causes homicides and gun homicides is sufficently complex as to elude a simple causal relationship.
Exactly. Any effect of gun legislation either produces insignificant change by itself or is sufficiently augmented by other factors so as to make the effect negligible.
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:29 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:Chernoslavia wrote:
A) Okay fair enough, though I dont trust your bbc source as they fail to cite their sources and they advocate policy. Citizensreport on the other hand seems more trusting.
B) Agreed.
Not only does the BBC article linked cite it's source, it actually links to the source in question.
by Frazers » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:30 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:Frazers wrote:
Exactly. Any effect of gun legislation either produces insignificant change by itself or is sufficiently augmented by other factors so as to make the effect negligible.
Or takes effect with a combination of factors. Either way in the absence of clear understanding of the causes, there isn't exactly a compelling case for altering the status quo.
by The UK in Exile » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:31 pm
Frazers wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
Or takes effect with a combination of factors. Either way in the absence of clear understanding of the causes, there isn't exactly a compelling case for altering the status quo.
Which, as Angleter pointed out, is funny given it's an equal argument against the initiation of the restrictions in the first place.
by New Aerios » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:31 pm
The UK in Exile wrote:Frazers wrote:
Exactly. Any effect of gun legislation either produces insignificant change by itself or is sufficiently augmented by other factors so as to make the effect negligible.
Or takes effect with a combination of factors. Either way in the absence of clear understanding of the causes, there isn't exactly a compelling case for altering the status quo.
"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong"------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man."
by Chernoslavia » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:32 pm
New Aerios wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
Or takes effect with a combination of factors. Either way in the absence of clear understanding of the causes, there isn't exactly a compelling case for altering the status quo.
Therefore there was no good reason to ban handguns. And as the decision to limit freedom for no benefit is clearly a bad thing unless you're Kim Jong-Un, the handgun ban should be repealed.
by Horizont » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:33 pm
New Aerios wrote:The UK in Exile wrote:
Or takes effect with a combination of factors. Either way in the absence of clear understanding of the causes, there isn't exactly a compelling case for altering the status quo.
Therefore there was no good reason to ban handguns. And as the decision to limit freedom for no benefit is clearly a bad thing unless you're Kim Jong-Un, the handgun ban should be repealed.
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