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by Sociopia » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:05 pm
by Othelos » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:09 pm
Persivis wrote:Threlizdun wrote:No, anarchism indicates a society devoid of social hierarchies. Anarchism is a type of stateless society, but not all stateless societies are anarchies. Capitalism not only creates hierarchies, but requires the state in order to exist.
What have you been smoking? The very definition of an anarchist society is a stateless one.
by Adriopium » Fri Jul 25, 2014 4:00 pm
by District XIV » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:42 pm
by District XIV » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:55 pm
by Deutsches Heilige Land » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:09 pm
by Conscentia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:21 am
Misc. Test Results And Assorted Other | The NSG Soviet Last Updated: Test Results (2018/02/02) | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
by Old Tyrannia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:26 am
by Conscentia » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:48 am
Old Tyrannia wrote:Not everyone is particularly interested in making their country a superpower, however. I dislike nationalism, but only because I identify nationalism as a specifically revolutionary ideology based on the idea of the supremacy of the nation-state as a political unit, whereas patriotism, which I like, is simply a love of and loyalty to one's native culture and birthplace. Basically, patriotism is passive, defensive and conservative whereas nationalism is aggressive and revolutionary. I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear here, but regardless, even without being a nationalist I am a patriot, and have no desire for my country to become part of a unified European "superpower".
Misc. Test Results And Assorted Other | The NSG Soviet Last Updated: Test Results (2018/02/02) | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
by The Abbadids » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:53 am
by Calimera II » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:53 pm
Adriopium wrote:I am a centrist Libertarian that supports a free market with limited (but crucial) regulation to protect businesses, workers, and customers from unjust exploitation and to assure safety and quality standards. On social issues I tend to be more liberal. If it doesn't harm anyone, legalize it, such as gay marriage, prostitution, soft drugs (i.e. marijuana, ecstasy).
by Threlizdun » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:25 pm
Conscentia wrote:Threlizdun wrote:No, anarchism indicates a society devoid of social hierarchies. Anarchism is a type of stateless society, but not all stateless societies are anarchies. Capitalism not only creates hierarchies, but requires the state in order to exist.
No, most do use the word to refer to advocacy of a stateless society.
Alone it doesn't, though within the context of the conversation it was meant to refer to collectivist anarchism, which advocates abolition of private property and the market but maintains currency as labor notes that are exchanged for resources.Conscentia wrote:Threlizdun wrote:No, communism exhibits a lack of the market and currency. All anarchism is socialist, as socialism is the only economic system that ensures a classless society, but not all anarchism is communist. Both mutualism and collectivism for example are common economic systems endorsed by anarchists.
Collectivism does not refer to a specific economic system.
No, all socialist societies were socialist; state capitalist societies were state capitalist. All human societies were socialist throughout the vast majority of our existence. There has never been a point in human history that socialism hasn't existed. Small communes always have existed and large scale societies such as Anarchist Catalonia and the Ukrainian Free Territory functioned relatively well prior to losing in the Spanish Civil War and Russian Civil War respectively. It isn't hard to find modern communes, and there are even larger corporate entities such as the Mondragon Corporation that operate on a basis of worker ownership. Real life examples of socialism put into practice exist all around you. More often than not they don't even realize they are operating on a socialist model.The Abbadids wrote:Threlizdun wrote:
Yes, that was my point. All Socialist countries has reverted to state capitalism as a "temporary measure" in their road to Socialism. No pure Socialist state has ever been created and succeeded on it's principles only, and it's hard for me to believe in something that hasn't even been confirmed that works. Once Socialism is put ENTIRELY into practice somewhere and provide at least the comfortable life standards I am used to today I would become a Socialist in a heartbeat. I don't know why that is so insulting, if you honestly believe in Socialism I am also a supporter if you can put it into practice and make it work, am I just supposed to support something blindly?
Capitalism is the same in a way, pure capitalism has never been seen in any country. There is always corruption and greed which destroys the capitalist dream that gives everyone the chance to succeed. But it's stable, and gives me the life standards that I crave, it is also the only system I have ever experienced and that make me not inclined to try out something that has failed repeatedly for a pipe dream that promises a benevolent government.
TL;DR If you are a Socialist, put it into practice, make it work, and you will make me and I bet thousands of others Socialists as well.
by Kraannei » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:56 pm
Threlizdun wrote:[spoiler]Conscentia wrote:No, most do use the word to refer to advocacy of a stateless society.
And most use the word incorrectly. The proper term to refer to a stateless society is simply "stateless society", not "anarchy".Alone it doesn't, though within the context of the conversation it was meant to refer to collectivist anarchism, which advocates abolition of private property and the market but maintains currency as labor notes that are exchanged for resources.Conscentia wrote:Collectivism does not refer to a specific economic system.
Trotskyism is not compatable with libertarian interpretations of Marxism and most certainly isn't compatable with anarchism. Trotsky slaughtered political opponents en masse. He crushed the independent communes, strikers, and Russian and Ukrainian anarchists. The man was a monster. Leninism is an authoritarian ideology that cannot be reconciled with libertarian traditions.No, all socialist societies were socialist; state capitalist societies were state capitalist. All human societies were socialist throughout the vast majority of our existence. There has never been a point in human history that socialism hasn't existed. Small communes always have existed and large scale societies such as Anarchist Catalonia and the Ukrainian Free Territory functioned relatively well prior to losing in the Spanish Civil War and Russian Civil War respectively. It isn't hard to find modern communes, and there are even larger corporate entities such as the Mondragon Corporation that operate on a basis of worker ownership. Real life examples of socialism put into practice exist all around you. More often than not they don't even realize they are operating on a socialist model.The Abbadids wrote:
Yes, that was my point. All Socialist countries has reverted to state capitalism as a "temporary measure" in their road to Socialism. No pure Socialist state has ever been created and succeeded on it's principles only, and it's hard for me to believe in something that hasn't even been confirmed that works. Once Socialism is put ENTIRELY into practice somewhere and provide at least the comfortable life standards I am used to today I would become a Socialist in a heartbeat. I don't know why that is so insulting, if you honestly believe in Socialism I am also a supporter if you can put it into practice and make it work, am I just supposed to support something blindly?
Capitalism is the same in a way, pure capitalism has never been seen in any country. There is always corruption and greed which destroys the capitalist dream that gives everyone the chance to succeed. But it's stable, and gives me the life standards that I crave, it is also the only system I have ever experienced and that make me not inclined to try out something that has failed repeatedly for a pipe dream that promises a benevolent government.
TL;DR If you are a Socialist, put it into practice, make it work, and you will make me and I bet thousands of others Socialists as well.
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