The Confederate battle flag

[TheConfederate States of America]

I see nothing wrong with remembering the people who died in the South during the Civil War. It is a symbol of remembrance and heritage, nothing more.

Who says we're not? We're just also remembering what they fought and died for. The right to keep human beings as property.

That's incorrect.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Pssssst. He was making fun of you and the other guys who make a point, abandon it, wait a few pages, and then say it again and act like it's something new. Somebody literally made that point one or two pages ago.

Ifreann is making fun of me? Oh no a BRONY doesn't like me.

Now that's just juvenile. Somebody's personal entertainment preferences should have no bearing on whether their respect is worth having. But I digress.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Who says we're not? We're just also remembering what they fought and died for. The right to keep human beings as property.

That's incorrect.

We've been over this. Do I need to get out the cornerstone speech?

[Cannot think of a name]

No its not.

Your schools teach that lincoln wouldn't have freed the slaves?

Well, they teach us the complex tapestry of the political situation leading up to the Civil War which includes the fact that while the Republicans had an abolitionist platform that formed the party over an overturned compromise that allowed for Kansas to become a slave state there was not enough political power in the Northern states to abolish slavery by the time the war started.

I feel like you've gotten your information about America through a really terrible game of telephone.

[Dakini]

Ifreann is making fun of me? Oh no a BRONY doesn't like me.

Now that's just juvenile. Somebody's personal entertainment preferences should have no bearing on whether their respect is worth having. But I digress.

Never mind that Ifreann is much cooler and more respected than this guy around here.

[Ucropi]

Ifreann is making fun of me? Oh no a BRONY doesn't like me.

Now that's just juvenile. Somebody's personal entertainment preferences should have no bearing on whether their respect is worth having. But I digress.

No their personality and repeated attacks play heavily into my decision to not respect them. The fact that a grown man enjoys a cartoon about magic horses being friends thats made for 5 year old girls had nothing to do with that decision.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Ifreann is making fun of me? Oh no a BRONY doesn't like me.

In all seriousness I studied history in University. I LOVE history. If the South hadn't secede the North wouldn't have freed the slaves. I know it's taught differently in America (you know the country where the North won the civil war and Lincoln is a hero), but countries always teach propaganda and if you can't see that there is no help.

You've made it pretty obvious throughout this thread that you have not done much in the way of studying history at all.

I'm not from the USA, I did not learn US history in school, but I've actually bothered to read a book on the US civil war (Battle Cry of Freedom by James McPherson). You've made a number of factually incorrect and totally asinine statements in this thread which indicate that you're entirely ignorant of US history.

The Northern states of the USA had mostly gotten rid of slavery before the US civil war. By the end of it, even more states had gotten rid of it on their own. The USA would have eventually gotten rid of slavery. It might have taken longer, but Lincoln was actually an abolitionist (albeit a moderate one) and he did want to eradicate the "peculiar institution". He wasn't willing to do it at the expense of the unity of the country, but that doesn't really change matters.

Important distinction for everybody in the thread: Lincoln was a racist, but he was not a slaver. That's what gives him the moral high ground. He wanted slavery gone for the same reason you might dislike animal testing: is it useful to corporations and not harming anything you feel is human? Yes. Does that mean you can't find it cruel and you don't want it gone? No.

[Ucropi]

Your schools teach that lincoln wouldn't have freed the slaves?

Well, they teach us the complex tapestry of the political situation leading up to the Civil War which includes the fact that while the Republicans had an abolitionist platform that formed the party over an overturned compromise that allowed for Kansas to become a slave state there was not enough political power in the Northern states to abolish slavery by the time the war started.

I feel like you've gotten your information about America through a really terrible game of telephone.

Wow if my information is wrong maybe you should talk to the scores(see what i did there?) of americans in this thread making it sound like a muscle bound lincoln personally punch slavery in it's face.

[TheConfederate States of America]

Your sarcasm detector is broken.

The thread is about the Confederate flag not sarcasm please keep on topic.

correction: the confederate battle flag.

[Ucropi]

You've made it pretty obvious throughout this thread that you have not done much in the way of studying history at all.

I'm not from the USA, I did not learn US history in school, but I've actually bothered to read a book on the US civil war (Battle Cry of Freedom by James McPherson). You've made a number of factually incorrect and totally asinine statements in this thread which indicate that you're entirely ignorant of US history.

The Northern states of the USA had mostly gotten rid of slavery before the US civil war. By the end of it, even more states had gotten rid of it on their own. The USA would have eventually gotten rid of slavery. It might have taken longer, but Lincoln was actually an abolitionist (albeit a moderate one) and he did want to eradicate the "peculiar institution". He wasn't willing to do it at the expense of the unity of the country, but that doesn't really change matters.

Important distinction for everybody in the thread: Lincoln was a racist, but he was not a slaver. That's what gives him the moral high ground. He wanted slavery gone for the same reason you might dislike animal testing: is it useful to corporations and not harming anything you feel is human? Yes. Does that mean you can't find it cruel and you don't want it gone? No.

Another person saying Lincoln didn't abolish slavery because he was just such a good person?! My word.

[Cannot think of a name]

Who says we're not? We're just also remembering what they fought and died for. The right to keep human beings as property.

That's incorrect.

You'd think if it was they wouldn't have gone on about how they're separating from the union in order to protect the institution of slavery.

But, they didn't know that history would look unkindly on the prospect of keeping human beings as property so they went on talking about it with their outside voices instead of keeping it on the downlow and coming up with all the 'after the fact' rationalizations apologists have had to twist themselves into pretzels to come up with in the intervening years.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Well, they teach us the complex tapestry of the political situation leading up to the Civil War which includes the fact that while the Republicans had an abolitionist platform that formed the party over an overturned compromise that allowed for Kansas to become a slave state there was not enough political power in the Northern states to abolish slavery by the time the war started.

I feel like you've gotten your information about America through a really terrible game of telephone.

Wow if my information is wrong maybe you should talk to the scores(see what i did there?) of americans in this thread making it sound like a muscle bound lincoln personally punch slavery in it's face.

Impressive wordplay aside, I've seen almost no instances of that in this thread. Certainly less than twenty (which is a score). It helps that the OP is constantly reporting that Lincoln quote where he's a racist.

[Cannot think of a name]

Important distinction for everybody in the thread: Lincoln was a racist, but he was not a slaver. That's what gives him the moral high ground. He wanted slavery gone for the same reason you might dislike animal testing: is it useful to corporations and not harming anything you feel is human? Yes. Does that mean you can't find it cruel and you don't want it gone? No.

Another person saying Lincoln didn't abolish slavery because he was just such a good person?! My word.

Take that, argument no one is making!

[Dakini]

Well, they teach us the complex tapestry of the political situation leading up to the Civil War which includes the fact that while the Republicans had an abolitionist platform that formed the party over an overturned compromise that allowed for Kansas to become a slave state there was not enough political power in the Northern states to abolish slavery by the time the war started.

I feel like you've gotten your information about America through a really terrible game of telephone.

Wow if my information is wrong maybe you should talk to the scores(see what i did there?) of americans in this thread making it sound like a muscle bound lincoln personally punch slavery in it's face.

Really? Because this thread has been mostly full of Southern Apologists who don't know what they're talking about.

Oh right, I forgot that you didn't read the thread.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Important distinction for everybody in the thread: Lincoln was a racist, but he was not a slaver. That's what gives him the moral high ground. He wanted slavery gone for the same reason you might dislike animal testing: is it useful to corporations and not harming anything you feel is human? Yes. Does that mean you can't find it cruel and you don't want it gone? No.

Another person saying Lincoln didn't abolish slavery because he was just such a good person?! My word.

If you had bothered reading the thread, you would have seen that everyone agrees that how good or bad Lincoln is is utterly and completely irrelevant to how bad the CSA was.

[Ucropi]

Another person saying Lincoln didn't abolish slavery because he was just such a good person?! My word.

Take that, argument no one is making!

Clearly you haven't met Ifreann

[Cannot think of a name]

Well, they teach us the complex tapestry of the political situation leading up to the Civil War which includes the fact that while the Republicans had an abolitionist platform that formed the party over an overturned compromise that allowed for Kansas to become a slave state there was not enough political power in the Northern states to abolish slavery by the time the war started.

I feel like you've gotten your information about America through a really terrible game of telephone.

Wow if my information is wrong maybe you should talk to the scores(see what i did there?) of americans in this thread making it sound like a muscle bound lincoln personally punch slavery in it's face.

Quote them.

[Ifreann]

No, I'm mocking you.

---

This thread is so educational.

I know. Also, didn't you know that Southern California was totally part of the South? It's right there in the name.

Makes sense.

---

Pssssst. He was making fun of you and the other guys who make a point, abandon it, wait a few pages, and then say it again and act like it's something new. Somebody literally made that point one or two pages ago.

Ifreann is making fun of me? Oh no a BRONY doesn't like me.

And normally we like everyone.

In all seriousness I studied history in University. I LOVE history. If the South hadn't secede the North wouldn't have freed the slaves. I know it's taught differently in America (you know the country where the North won the civil war and Lincoln is a hero), but countries always teach propaganda and if you can't see that there is no help.

So much do you love history that you discovered that the American revolution was actually about slavery through your own original research and that the freeing of slaves in the Union somehow damaged the economy of the Confederacy, where they were not freed, which was heavily based on agriculture.

---

You've made it pretty obvious throughout this thread that you have not done much in the way of studying history at all.

I'm not from the USA, I did not learn US history in school, but I've actually bothered to read a book on the US civil war (Battle Cry of Freedom by James McPherson). You've made a number of factually incorrect and totally asinine statements in this thread which indicate that you're entirely ignorant of US history.

The Northern states of the USA had mostly gotten rid of slavery before the US civil war. By the end of it, even more states had gotten rid of it on their own. The USA would have eventually gotten rid of slavery. It might have taken longer, but Lincoln was actually an abolitionist (albeit a moderate one) and he did want to eradicate the "peculiar institution". He wasn't willing to do it at the expense of the unity of the country, but that doesn't really change matters.

Important distinction for everybody in the thread: Lincoln was a racist, but he was not a slaver. That's what gives him the moral high ground. He wanted slavery gone for the same reason you might dislike animal testing: is it useful to corporations and not harming anything you feel is human? Yes. Does that mean you can't find it cruel and you don't want it gone? No.

And lest we forget, Lincoln could have been some kind of preincarnation of Hitler and that wouldn't have changed what the Confederate flag represents.

[The Black Forrest]

Pssssst. He was making fun of you and the other guys who make a point, abandon it, wait a few pages, and then say it again and act like it's something new. Somebody literally made that point one or two pages ago.

Ifreann is making fun of me? Oh no a BRONY doesn't like me.

In all seriousness I studied history in University. I LOVE history. If the South hadn't secede the North wouldn't have freed the slaves. I know it's taught differently in America (you know the country where the North won the civil war and Lincoln is a hero), but countries always teach propaganda and if you can't see that there is no help.

Ok. How is Lincoln the hero of the Civil war?

Propaganda

[Cannot think of a name]

Take that, argument no one is making!

Clearly you haven't met Ifreann

You know what's awesome, though it has no bearing on this admittedly stupid conversation, I technically actually have met Ifrean. He's a pretty cool cat.

[The Black Forrest]

Well, they teach us the complex tapestry of the political situation leading up to the Civil War which includes the fact that while the Republicans had an abolitionist platform that formed the party over an overturned compromise that allowed for Kansas to become a slave state there was not enough political power in the Northern states to abolish slavery by the time the war started.

I feel like you've gotten your information about America through a really terrible game of telephone.

Wow if my information is wrong maybe you should talk to the scores(see what i did there?) of americans in this thread making it sound like a muscle bound lincoln personally punch slavery in it's face.

Did they now? Link to the posts then.....

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Take that, argument no one is making!

Clearly you haven't met Ifreann

He's made no such argument. If he has, quote the post where he did.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Just posting to remind you folks that Lincoln didn't free the slaves because he was a good person. He freed them to cripple the South's agricultural based economy. No slaves = no cotton = no money for food/weapons/medical supplies.

Had the North been agriculturally based instead of industrial you would most likely still own a human being today.

The Midwest WAS agricultural rather than industrial. Still free states.

[Ucropi]

blah blah blah

You believe that when Lincoln freed the slaves he only freed the ones in the Union?

[TheConfederate States of America]

That's incorrect.

You'd think if it was they wouldn't have gone on about how they're separating from the union in order to protect the institution of slavery.

But, they didn't know that history would look unkindly on the prospect of keeping human beings as property so they went on talking about it with their outside voices instead of keeping it on the downlow and coming up with all the 'after the fact' rationalizations apologists have had to twist themselves into pretzels to come up with in the intervening years.

If the south REALY wanted to protect slavery all they would have to do was take Lincoln's offer and return to the union.