The Confederate battle flag

[Dakini]

41% of the black population is still enough that the flag offends large numbers of people.

This is true, but even so, a large number isn't a majorty. Nor would a majority convince me anyway. Like I said, I'm just curious for curiosities sake.

If you exclude the 45% that don't care, you find that 74.5% of black people surveyed who had an opinion on the flag think it's racist.

[Nazi Flower Power]

I'd be more interested in percentages of the black population in the South as opposed to blacks across the country. Of course blacks (and people from the north in general) are going to almost always have a defacto negative few of the flag. They're coming from a place of cultural bias.

Not that this would change my view of the flag one way or another. But it'd make for a more accurate and compelling case, as well as something interesting to note.

But the poll shouldn't just focus on black southerners it should include ALL southerners.
I would like to see the results from that poll.

Yumyum posted a link to the results.

[Nazi Flower Power]

But the poll shouldn't just focus on black southerners it should include ALL southerners.
I would like to see the results from that poll.

I am willing to bet the results would still be not what you want. The south has grown up enough in some areas to not have a majority like this.

A majority of Southerners said they had no opinion.

[Rabopari]

it represents rememberence, like the poppy

[Aurora Novus]

I'd be more interested in percentages of the black population in the South as opposed to blacks across the country. Of course blacks (and people from the north in general) are going to almost always have a defacto negative few of the flag. They're coming from a place of cultural bias.

Not that this would change my view of the flag one way or another. But it'd make for a more accurate and compelling case, as well as something interesting to note.

But the poll shouldn't just focus on black southerners it should include ALL southerners.

...Why? That would defeat the purpose of the poll, that is to say, to learn what the group who's historic association with the flag has been a primarily negative one thinks of the flag in our modern age.

[Aurora Novus]

This is true, but even so, a large number isn't a majorty. Nor would a majority convince me anyway. Like I said, I'm just curious for curiosities sake.

If you exclude the 45% that don't care, you find that 74.5% of black people surveyed who had an opinion on the flag think it's racist.

Yes...but why would you exclude the 45% that don't care? Clearly the flag is not so offensive to these 45% that they give a damn about it. That would say something about the point you're trying to make, namely, that it's not the case that an overwhelming majority of blacks are offended by the flag.

Of course, as I said, I find it less interesting what the majority of blacks nationally think, and I'm more interested in what the majority of blacks, actually affected by the flag, think. Such a poll may actually swing in your favor, who knows? I don't. Which is why I'd be interested in seeing it.

[Kxcd]

Racist idiots who would have me chained, whipped and worked to death on a hellish plantation.

[The North Pacific League]

Racist idiots who would have me chained, whipped and worked to death on a hellish plantation.

I do hope you realize that this kind of statement makes it virtually impossible to have a discussion about the historical causes of the Civil War, its results, or what either side fought for, because it will just devolve into vitriol. You'll end up painting it as the KKK versus Black people. But it wasn't that, at all, in spite of what people may have told you.

Speaking of "lies my teacher told me".

In truth it was a war between two groups of racist White folk, with causes far beyond slavery. Slavery was one, and the sectional crisis that was in essence a result of the debate over whether newly admitted States in the Union would have legal slavery or not was perhaps the most immediate cause, I freely admit, but if you think Lincoln or other Republican politicians of the day would have been your good pals and shaken your hand as an equal rather than having preferred to deport you to the equivalent of an Indian reservation, you're flat wrong.

(Yes, I know he shook Frederick Douglass' hand. That's what we call "political theatre"; he had to "prove" that the Emancipation Proclamation was made of moral imperative rather than convenience and a desire to subdue the South. You would have been a common lower-class person and never worth his attention or concern had you lived in the 1860s.)

The fact that emancipation resulted from the Civil War was a result of the exigencies of the situation and it happening to be beneficial to the real Northern cause, which was of course to prevent secession.

If I'm wrong please tell me why the Emancipation Proclamation had a six-month delay, would have allowed the South to return to status-quo ante-bellum (i.e. kept on having slavery just as before) had it given up rebellion, and wasn't issued in 1861.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Racist idiots who would have me chained, whipped and worked to death on a hellish plantation.

I do hope you realize that this kind of statement makes it virtually impossible to have a discussion about the historical causes of the Civil War, its results, or what either side fought for, because it will just devolve into vitriol. You'll end up painting it as the KKK versus Black people. But it wasn't that, at all, in spite of what people may have told you.

Wow. I was just recently discussing how difficult a concept privilege was to deal with when attempting to have a dialogue with those who saw nothing else, and how I was ready to remove myself from any conversation dealing with the topic. Thank you for reminding me of what a major issue it is.

Speaking of "lies my teacher told me".

In truth it was a war between two groups of racist White folk, with causes far beyond slavery.

Yes to the first, and "Not that far beyond" to the second.

Slavery was one, and the sectional crisis that was in essence a result of the debate over whether newly admitted States in the Union would have legal slavery or not was perhaps the most immediate cause, I freely admit,

How kind of you to be willing to admit to the truth.

but if you think Lincoln or other Republican politicians of the day would have been your good pals and shaken your hand as an equal rather than having preferred to deport you to the equivalent of an Indian reservation, you're flat wrong.

I don't recall him saying that they would.

(Yes, I know he shook Frederick Douglass' hand. That's what we call "political theatre"; he had to "prove" that the Emancipation Proclamation was made of moral imperative rather than convenience and a desire to subdue the South. You would have been a common lower-class person and never worth his attention or concern had you lived in the 1860s.)

You've proven yourself slightly more educated than other Southern apologists. Now, please source your claim regarding Lincoln's motivations. I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm simply saying that such a bold statement requires some sort of evidence.

The fact that emancipation resulted from the Civil War was a result of the exigencies of the situation and it happening to be beneficial to the real Northern cause, which was of course to prevent secession.

Already established, nobody is arguing any other point.

If I'm wrong please tell me why the Emancipation Proclamation had a six-month delay, would have allowed the South to return to status-quo ante-bellum (i.e. kept on having slavery just as before) had it given up rebellion, and wasn't issued in 1861.

So is the Confederate Battle Flag a racist symbol or not?

[TheConfederate States of America]

Racist idiots who would have me chained, whipped and worked to death on a hellish plantation.

Let me ask you something.
What flag did your ancestors see on the slaveship?

[TheConfederate States of America]

it represents rememberence, like the poppy

Well put.

[The Floating Island of the Sleeping God]

Racist idiots who would have me chained, whipped and worked to death on a hellish plantation.

Let me ask you something.
What flag did your ancestors see on the slaveship?

Probably the Australian flag. I hear they were big on slaving.

[TheConfederate States of America]

The flags of France England Spain and the US along with others.

[Lyrova]

The flags of France England Spain and the US along with others.

therefore those flags are racist and should be condemned as such

[Alaizia]

Yes, it's hypocritical to close our eyes and assume that only the Confederancy had a part in the slave market ever.

[TheConfederate States of America]

The flags of France England Spain and the US along with others.

therefore those flags are racist and should be condemned as such

Exactly my point.


The confederate battle flag never flew on a slave ship so people can't say it represents slavery.
Ignorant people don't like to talk about the flags that flew on slave ships let alone know what they were.

[Alaizia]

therefore those flags are racist and should be condemned as such

Exactly my point.


The confederate battle flag never flew on a slave ship so people can't say it represents slavery.
Ignorant people don't like to talk about the flags that flew on slave ships let alone know what they were.

But also, we should not forget that it was used to represent a state that believed in the idea of slavery and, therefore, engaged in a war about that either.

[Ifreann]

The flags of France England Spain and the US along with others.

therefore those flags are racist and should be condemned as such

No they aren't and no they shouldn't.

---

therefore those flags are racist and should be condemned as such

Exactly my point.


The confederate battle flag never flew on a slave ship so people can't say it represents slavery.

Yes, we can.

Ignorant people don't like to talk about the flags that flew on slave ships let alone know what they were.

Ignorant people like to act like it makes any difference whether Confederate flags flew on slave ships.

[Avenio]

The confederate battle flag never flew on a slave ship so people can't say it represents slavery.

Do you know why the Confederacy's flag never flew on a ship plying the Atlantic slave route?

Because the British, after abolishing slavery in their empire in 1807, created a fleet of ships with the explicit purpose of shutting down the Atlantic slave trade by patrolling the coasts of Africa and intercepting any ships carrying slaves. The US itself followed suit that year, but did not ban the internal trade of slaves, just the trans-Atlantic trade.

So the reason why the Confederacy never flew its flag over a slave ship was that literally every other Western power at the time had banned slavery in all its forms, and the Confederates were forced to acquire slaves from their existing populations in the CSA.

[TheConfederate States of America]

A lot of ignorant people will tell you that the confederate battle flag is racist and stands for slavery and that the kkk uses it so it's racist.
To those people who want to play the " guilt by association" game look at this photo.




This was taken in Washington D.C. in 1925



So which flag is racist and stands for slavery?


Disclaimer:I am not a racist and I would like to see the klan dismantaled also I love America I'm just showing the truth.

[Vettrera]

therefore those flags are racist and should be condemned as such

Exactly my point.


The confederate battle flag never flew on a slave ship so people can't say it represents slavery.
Ignorant people don't like to talk about the flags that flew on slave ships let alone know what they were.

are you fucking serious? Like honestly? Iffrean covered this well enough, but allow me to ask a few rhetorical questions.

So the South didn't support slavery? The south didn't have slaves? Slavery wasn't a large issue in the civil war? Southerners didn't deny blacks civil and human rights? Racism wasn't rampant in the South?

(YES, I know that racism was rampant almost everywhere, but this conversation is limited to the South. Just cause the North was racist doesn't mean the South wasnt. Just cause my favorite color is orange doesn't mean nobody else can have orange as their favorite color)

-- Sent via phone so excuse the short length and lack of breakdown.

[Alaizia]

The confederate battle flag never flew on a slave ship so people can't say it represents slavery.

Do you know why the Confederacy's flag never flew on a ship plying the Atlantic slave route?

Because the British, after abolishing slavery in their empire in 1807, created a fleet of ships with the explicit purpose of shutting down the Atlantic slave trade by patrolling the coasts of Africa and intercepting any ships carrying slaves. The US itself followed suit that year, but did not ban the internal trade of slaves, just the trans-Atlantic trade.

So the reason why the Confederacy never flew its flag over a slave ship was that literally every other Western power at the time had banned slavery in all its forms, and the Confederates were forced to acquire slaves from their existing populations in the CSA.

Really? I wasn't aware of the full story. Could you provide me a link about that?

[Avenio]

Do you know why the Confederacy's flag never flew on a ship plying the Atlantic slave route?

Because the British, after abolishing slavery in their empire in 1807, created a fleet of ships with the explicit purpose of shutting down the Atlantic slave trade by patrolling the coasts of Africa and intercepting any ships carrying slaves. The US itself followed suit that year, but did not ban the internal trade of slaves, just the trans-Atlantic trade.

So the reason why the Confederacy never flew its flag over a slave ship was that literally every other Western power at the time had banned slavery in all its forms, and the Confederates were forced to acquire slaves from their existing populations in the CSA.

Really? I wasn't aware of the full story. Could you provide me a link about that?

Here.

[Ifreann]

So which flag is racist and stands for slavery?

The Confederate flag.

[TheConfederate States of America]

The confederate battle flag never flew on a slave ship so people can't say it represents slavery.

Do you know why the Confederacy's flag never flew on a ship plying the Atlantic slave route?

Because the British, after abolishing slavery in their empire in 1807, created a fleet of ships with the explicit purpose of shutting down the Atlantic slave trade by patrolling the coasts of Africa and intercepting any ships carrying slaves. The US itself followed suit that year, but did not ban the internal trade of slaves, just the trans-Atlantic trade.

So the reason why the Confederacy never flew its flag over a slave ship was that literally every other Western power at the time had banned slavery in all its forms, and the Confederates were forced to acquire slaves from their existing populations in the CSA.

And I am well aware of that.
Also we are talking about a flag that was never the confederate national flag.

It was a BATTLE flag never a symbol of the CSA government.
This was a flag for the army ONLY.