The Confederate battle flag

[Gaelic Celtia]

Are you seriously comparing modern corporate enterprise to slave labor? Tell me you are joking.

Yes, yes I am.

Oh, yes. when Drury Enterprises hired me they threw me in chains, referred to me as "boy" and "nigger", sent me into a field for half the day in the blazing sun without giving me a single dime, then whipped me when the fancy struck them. At the end of every shift I am shuffled back into a crowded barrack with no adequate bedding to repeat the horror tomorrow.

Oh wait, no. They pay me a standard wage for my services for about 8 hours a day, and treat me with the respect that is due to a human being, I then may go home and do as I please, as I am not bound to their premises.

[The North Pacific League]

Yes, yes I am.

Oh, yes. when Drury Enterprises hired me they threw me in chains, referred to me as "boy" and "nigger", sent me into a field for half the day in the blazing sun without giving me a single dime, then whipped me when the fancy struck them. At the end of every shift I am shuffled back into a crowded barrack with no adequate bedding to repeat the horror tomorrow.

Oh wait, no. They pay me a standard wage for my services for about 8 hours a day, and treat me with the respect that is due to a human being, I then may go home and do as I please, as I am not bound to their premises.

You're not American are you?

For one thing, we have literal slavery in this country, because we have privatized prisons with disproportionate minority inmate populations who are forced to work for the profit of corporations with no compensation at all. And yes, they are thrown in chains and likely called much worse than "boy", and subjected to worse things than you probably imagine Southern slaves being, which are also likely unrealistic for the most part.

For another, our disparity of wealth and its effect on the Black population means that yes, Black people are degraded and treated as sub-human because of income inequality.

I don't know what the f- Drury Enterprises is but enjoy having to suck up to a boss and be fired if you insult him even when he's an absolute a-hole and deserves it--are you able to speak your mind, then? Do you feel free? Of course you can quit and either work for the same kind of corporation and be subject to the same thing, or be homeless, so that's a great freedom, isn't it?

I see you've learned well enough to love your chains just like Uncle Tom. Congrats.

[Farnhamia]

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

-Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858 (The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, pp. 145-146.)

You have been asked more than once to stop posting this and other quotes without making any attempt to integrate them into the discussion. I myself have been more than lenient in this regard. *** Warned for spamming. ***

[Gaelic Celtia]

Oh, yes. when Drury Enterprises hired me they threw me in chains, referred to me as "boy" and "nigger", sent me into a field for half the day in the blazing sun without giving me a single dime, then whipped me when the fancy struck them. At the end of every shift I am shuffled back into a crowded barrack with no adequate bedding to repeat the horror tomorrow.

Oh wait, no. They pay me a standard wage for my services for about 8 hours a day, and treat me with the respect that is due to a human being, I then may go home and do as I please, as I am not bound to their premises.

You're not American are you?

For one thing, we have literal slavery in this country, because we have privatized prisons with disproportionate minority inmate populations who are forced to work for the profit of corporations with no compensation at all. And yes, they are thrown in chains and likely called much worse than "boy", and subjected to worse things than you probably imagine Southern slaves being, which are also likely unrealistic for the most part.

For another, our disparity of wealth and its effect on the Black population means that yes, Black people are degraded and treated as sub-human because of income inequality.

I don't know what the f- Drury Enterprises is but enjoy having to suck up to a boss and be fired if you insult him even when he's an absolute a-hole and deserves it--are you able to speak your mind, then? Do you feel free? Of course you can quit and either work for the same kind of corporation and be subject to the same thing, or be homeless, so that's a great freedom, isn't it?

I see you've learned well enough to love your chains just like Uncle Tom. Congrats.

I live in America yes.

People in prison did something to be thrown in there, they harmed society and thus must pay back a debt to it. They were not taken from their lands and lives and forced into prison.

Sure, there are some instances still of racial prejudice, but don't be naive and compare the treatment African Americans face today to life as a slave centuries ago. They are not remotely similar.

Clearly you have never held a job. Yes, that is how a job works, one position is above another and that is just how it goes. You can not be fired for just anything, there would be lawsuits up the ass. It is not slavery, as you are getting paid. Slavery is unpaid labor. If anything, it is insulting to compare today's working environment to that of a slave's working environment. And yes I think I will enjoy "my chains" as you inanely put them, as that means I can support myself and live in a house and live a healthy and productive life. If that means I have to put up with a jack ass boss here and there, fine. Not that big of a deal. I am not getting whipped, forced to work all day for no pay, and forced to live on the company's property. Your edgy comparison of a job to slavery is juvenile, at best.

Sooner or later you will have to grow up as well, and you will have to "suck" up to bosses (when you really don't) and "enjoy your chains" (which aren't really chains). But if you want to preach your edgy anti-corporate rhetoric in a box on the side of the street, by all means. At least you won't be "living in the chains of the MAN" amirite?

[Farnhamia]

You're not American are you?

For one thing, we have literal slavery in this country, because we have privatized prisons with disproportionate minority inmate populations who are forced to work for the profit of corporations with no compensation at all. And yes, they are thrown in chains and likely called much worse than "boy", and subjected to worse things than you probably imagine Southern slaves being, which are also likely unrealistic for the most part.

For another, our disparity of wealth and its effect on the Black population means that yes, Black people are degraded and treated as sub-human because of income inequality.

I don't know what the f- Drury Enterprises is but enjoy having to suck up to a boss and be fired if you insult him even when he's an absolute a-hole and deserves it--are you able to speak your mind, then? Do you feel free? Of course you can quit and either work for the same kind of corporation and be subject to the same thing, or be homeless, so that's a great freedom, isn't it?

I see you've learned well enough to love your chains just like Uncle Tom. Congrats.

I live in America yes.

People in prison did something to be thrown in there, they harmed society and thus must pay back a debt to it. They were not taken from their lands and lives and forced into prison. Sure, there are some instances still of racial prejudice, but don't be naive and compare it to life as a slave.

Clearly you have never held a job. Yes, that is how a job works, one position is above another and that is just how it goes. You can not be fired for just anything, there would be lawsuits up the ass. It is not slavery, as you are getting paid. Slavery is unpaid labor. If anything, it is insulting to compare today's working environment to that of a slave's working environment. And yes I think I will enjoy "my chains" as you inanely put them, as that means I can support myself and live in a house and live a healthy and productive life. If that means I have to put up with a jack ass boss here and there, fine. Not that big of a deal. Your edgy comparison of a job to slavery is juvenile, at best.

Sooner or later you will have to grow up as well, and you will have to "suck" up to bosses (when you really don't) and "enjoy your chains" (which aren't really chains). But if you want to preach your edgy anti-corporate rhetoric in a box on the side of the street, by all means. At least you won't be "living in the chains of the MAN" amirite?

Let's both be careful with the personal comments, shall we?

[Vettrera]

Here's my issue with what you're posting. You act as if the South didn't want to do it. They didn't want to mistreat the blacks, they didn't want to enslave the blacks, but they had to. They had to whip the blacks when they did wrong...or even when they didn't. They had to call them niggers. They had to...It was the only way for them to survive. They didn't think it was wrong because they were protecting themselves and providing for their families. It was the only way for them to survive...

That is bullshit. And that is racism. Take pride in that if you want to.

Hey kid. Stop reading Fredrick Douglass and Uncle Toms cabin and open a history book. They say that 95% of slave owners never mistreated their slaves. Most of us were very kind to them! So stop with your bullshit! Saying oh poor them. Oh we were so harsh! Oh man the south was so wrong and the North was the hero. That's not even fucking true

A: Do. Not. Call. Me. Kid. it's belittling and unbecoming in discussion. It automatically assumes you hold the correct opinion and puts others down by assuming they're ignorant or unaware. Do not do it again.

B: I need source for your 95% claim you keep spouting.

C: So you're trying to justify slavery again? I guess we're at square one again....if it was purely economical, why did they lack civil rights?

D: don't think for a second that I am a fan of the North. I'm not. I don't fly ANY flag or support any group. I support human rights. And slavery and the actions taken by the South after the fact is a violation of human rights. If what you say is correct and Southerners saw the blacks as equals and just needed them for economic purposes, why did it take 100 years AFTER the war for the civil rights movement to take place? because they were racist....Racism existed during slavery and extended past it. Your "they were kind racists though" doesnt explain why they lacked civil and human rights. So when you tell me it "wasnt that bad" what you're really telling me is "those blacks didn't really need rights" and I don't think you're trying to come off that way...

[The Black Forrest]

Oh, yes. when Drury Enterprises hired me they threw me in chains, referred to me as "boy" and "nigger", sent me into a field for half the day in the blazing sun without giving me a single dime, then whipped me when the fancy struck them. At the end of every shift I am shuffled back into a crowded barrack with no adequate bedding to repeat the horror tomorrow.

Oh wait, no. They pay me a standard wage for my services for about 8 hours a day, and treat me with the respect that is due to a human being, I then may go home and do as I please, as I am not bound to their premises.

You're not American are you?

And that matters why?

Corporations are an American only thing?

For one thing, we have literal slavery in this country, because we have privatized prisons with disproportionate minority inmate populations who are forced to work for the profit of corporations with no compensation at all.

We have public prisons that do the same thing. Albeit with a complete joke of a wage.

And yes, they are thrown in chains and likely called much worse than "boy", and subjected to worse things than you probably imagine Southern slaves being, which are also likely unrealistic for the most part.

Ok. Prisons are in the business of holding people. Not really a valid comparison of the standard corporation.

For another, our disparity of wealth and its effect on the Black population means that yes, Black people are degraded and treated as sub-human because of income inequality.

That's more the result of slavery and the lack of rights for a long time. Not really the fault of corporations.

I don't know what the f- Drury Enterprises is but enjoy having to suck up to a boss and be fired if you insult him even when he's an absolute a-hole and deserves it--are you able to speak your mind, then? Do you feel free? Of course you can quit and either work for the same kind of corporation and be subject to the same thing, or be homeless, so that's a great freedom, isn't it?

I am not sure why you feel there is a tragedy in this. There is a social hierarchy. Always has; always will. There are ways to tell off a boss. Going on a public tirade? Most people would think you deserve to be fired.

You mentioned the ability to quit. There is one gigantic reason why you can't compare a corporate job to slavery.

I see you've learned well enough to love your chains just like Uncle Tom. Congrats.

Are you still in school?

Even if you are a big bad "entrepreneur" (grown to dislike that trite overused phrase); you would love to have an evil corporation as a customer.

[Vazdania]

I particularly enjoy it more than the disgusting flag we wave around today.

[Ifreann]

I particularly enjoy it more than the disgusting flag we wave around today.

Fan of slavery, eh?

[Vazdania]

I particularly enjoy it more than the disgusting flag we wave around today.

Fan of slavery, eh?

Of course you bring it to that.

No I don't.

I prefer confederacy of states over federacy of states.

[Ucropi]

I particularly enjoy it more than the disgusting flag we wave around today.

Fan of slavery, eh?

Implying Lincoln freed the slaves for any other reason than to cripples the Souths agriculturally based economy. No Cotton? No money for guns/medicine/food.

[Farnhamia]

Fan of slavery, eh?

Implying Lincoln freed the slaves for any other reason than to cripples the Souths agriculturally based economy. No Cotton? No money for guns/medicine/food.

That's how you deal with rebellion.

[Kelinfort]

Fan of slavery, eh?

Of course you bring it to that.

No I don't.

I prefer confederacy of states over federacy of states.

There's a reason the US isn't a confederacy. The Articles of Confederation were terrible and did little to build a sense of a nation or an even economic policy, not to mention the Southern Confederacy collapsed partly because a war effort was so disjointed due to a lack of a central administration.

[Ucropi]

Implying Lincoln freed the slaves for any other reason than to cripples the Souths agriculturally based economy. No Cotton? No money for guns/medicine/food.

That's how you deal with rebellion.

Not sure what the point of this post was. You didn't agree or disagree and didn't add anything new to the discussion.

[Vazdania]

Of course you bring it to that.

No I don't.

I prefer confederacy of states over federacy of states.

There's a reason the US isn't a confederacy. The Articles of Confederation were terrible and did little to build a sense of a nation or an even economic policy, not to mention the Southern Confederacy collapsed partly because a war effort was so disjointed due to a lack of a central administration.

Just because 1 attempt failed doesn't mean they should have given up.

[Ifreann]

Fan of slavery, eh?

Of course you bring it to that.

Of course. The CSA was all about slavery.

No I don't.

I prefer confederacy of states over federacy of states.

Well, if ever you feel the need to express that preference with a flag, try one that isn't associated with slavery and racism, or people with think you're a slavery-loving racist.

---

Fan of slavery, eh?

Implying Lincoln freed the slaves for any other reason than to cripples the Souths agriculturally based economy. No Cotton? No money for guns/medicine/food.

I am implying no such thing.

[Sdaeriji]

There's a reason the US isn't a confederacy. The Articles of Confederation were terrible and did little to build a sense of a nation or an even economic policy, not to mention the Southern Confederacy collapsed partly because a war effort was so disjointed due to a lack of a central administration.

Just because 1 attempt failed doesn't mean they should have given up.

*2

[Lininiel]

You know, perhaps it would be best if you all just accepted that everyone has a different opinion.
The battle flag represented many things, not all of them bad, not all of them good. Nothing on Earth is perfect. Look at the U.S now? Can you sincerely say that we are the best country in the world? Think about the National Defense Authorization Act, The Patriot Act, the NSA, the IRS, and the other various laws and establishments that exist here. After looking at these things, can you still say you would salute the American Flag? I bet you answered yes. We still have pride in our flags, and we can't change everything they stood for in the past, we can just promise ourselves that we stand for the best of our country. Can you be open-minded enough to accept that not everyone will believe what you believe? So next time you see the Confederate battle flag, just ask yourself does this affect you? Or should you allow others to have the freedom to believe what they believe. Just consider it.

[Farnhamia]

You know, perhaps it would be best if you all just accepted that everyone has a different opinion.
The battle flag represented many things, not all of them bad, not all of them good. Nothing on Earth is perfect. Look at the U.S now? Can you sincerely say that we are the best country in the world? Think about the National Defense Authorization Act, The Patriot Act, the NSA, the IRS, and the other various laws and establishments that exist here. After looking at these things, can you still say you would salute the American Flag? I bet you answered yes. We still have pride in our flags, and we can't change everything they stood for in the past, we can just promise ourselves that we stand for the best of our country. Can you be open-minded enough to accept that not everyone will believe what you believe? So next time you see the Confederate battle flag, just ask yourself does this affect you? Or should you allow others to have the freedom to believe what they believe. Just consider it.

Believe what you like, just don't pretend to be upset when other people look down on you for waving a flag associated with slavery and rebellion.

[Kelinfort]

There's a reason the US isn't a confederacy. The Articles of Confederation were terrible and did little to build a sense of a nation or an even economic policy, not to mention the Southern Confederacy collapsed partly because a war effort was so disjointed due to a lack of a central administration.

Just because 1 attempt failed doesn't mean they should have given up.

Except both attempts failed miserably. A confederacy cannot expect to respond to economic or military threats in a quick manner due to the decentralised administration. A confederacy only works to ruin any chances of a stable and solid policy and government.

[Vazdania]

Of course you bring it to that.

Of course. The CSA was all about slavery.

No I don't.

I prefer confederacy of states over federacy of states.

Well, if ever you feel the need to express that preference with a flag, try one that isn't associated with slavery and racism, or people with think you're a slavery-loving racist.

---

Implying Lincoln freed the slaves for any other reason than to cripples the Souths agriculturally based economy. No Cotton? No money for guns/medicine/food.

I am implying no such thing.

It was more than slavery, and by you suggesting this, is just evidence of the fact that you've absolutely no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about. The Civil War was about much more than just slavery.

[Ucropi]

You know, perhaps it would be best if you all just accepted that everyone has a different opinion.
The battle flag represented many things, not all of them bad, not all of them good. Nothing on Earth is perfect. Look at the U.S now? Can you sincerely say that we are the best country in the world? Think about the National Defense Authorization Act, The Patriot Act, the NSA, the IRS, and the other various laws and establishments that exist here. After looking at these things, can you still say you would salute the American Flag? I bet you answered yes. We still have pride in our flags, and we can't change everything they stood for in the past, we can just promise ourselves that we stand for the best of our country. Can you be open-minded enough to accept that not everyone will believe what you believe? So next time you see the Confederate battle flag, just ask yourself does this affect you? Or should you allow others to have the freedom to believe what they believe. Just consider it.

Believe what you like, just don't pretend to be upset when other people look down on you for waving a flag associated with slavery and rebellion.

Isn't the American flag associated with rebellion too?

[Ifreann]

That's how you deal with rebellion.

Not sure what the point of this post was. You didn't agree or disagree and didn't add anything new to the discussion.

And what do you think that you added to the discussion by bringing up Lincoln when the topic is the Confederate flag?

[Sdaeriji]

It was more than slavery, and by you suggesting this, is just evidence of the fact that you've absolutely no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about. The Civil War was about much more than just slavery.

I realize this has been covered in the thread already, but name two other reasons besides slavery.

[Farnhamia]

Believe what you like, just don't pretend to be upset when other people look down on you for waving a flag associated with slavery and rebellion.

Isn't the American flag associated with rebellion too?

True, rebellion for good cause. The south had no good cause and they had numerous political remedies open to them for redress of their grievances.