Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Rehansu Tir]

Do you remember when the israeli left (which I support by the way) started losing ground and the right gaining it? I do.

Yeah, it was right after Rabin, pretty much the keystone of the whole peace effort, was assassinated by someone Shin Bet knew about.

They got their wish of continued tension between the Jewish and Arab population inside Israel. Kept them in jobs, that's for sure.

Except for the fact that there were two left-wing israeli governments and prime ministers (perez and Barak) after Rabin's death, both of whom made considerable concessions to the palestinians in hopes of peace, only to have the palestinians walk away both times.

But yeah, sure, there've been no left-wing governments in israel that wanted to make peace with the palestinians since Rabin's death.

[Cyrisnia]

Nice job insulting a dead girl.

She deserved to die though.

Wow. Just...wow.

[Angleter]

Yeah, it was right after Rabin, pretty much the keystone of the whole peace effort, was assassinated by someone Shin Bet knew about.

They got their wish of continued tension between the Jewish and Arab population inside Israel. Kept them in jobs, that's for sure.

Except for the fact that there were two left-wing israeli governments and prime ministers (perez and Barak) after Rabin's death, both of whom made considerable concessions to the palestinians in hopes of peace, only to have the palestinians walk away both times.

But yeah, sure, there've been no left-wing governments in israel that wanted to make peace with the palestinians since Rabin's death.

And Olmert.

[Rehansu Tir]

She deserved to die though.

Wow. Just...wow.

You'll have to ignore Great Zionist Israel - he's got a bad case of religion on the brain. And as we all know, it's almost always incurable, regardless of the strain.

[Viritica]

Wow. Just...wow.

You'll have to ignore Great Zionist Israel - he's got a bad case of religion on the brain. And as we all know, it's almost always incurable, regardless of the strain.

Everybody just ignore him. I reported him.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Except for the fact that there were two left-wing israeli governments and prime ministers (perez and Barak) after Rabin's death, both of whom made considerable concessions to the palestinians in hopes of peace, only to have the palestinians walk away both times.

You said when the Left started losing traction, not when the right completely took over.

As soon as Rabin was dead, the peace plan was dead. I also remember the 1990s in Israel/Palestine, and it was a time when a lot of houses were getting bulldozed by the Israelis while the Palestinians suicide bombed Israeli territory. That wasn't really a time of peace, it was a time of empty negotiations by both sides.

[Lordieth]

You're citing an Isreali news source to back up the human shield claim?

I've seen no other media reports on this. Post some credible, outside sources showing Hamas are using civilians as human shields, rather than it being rhetoric from Isreal to defend its position of bombing civilian casualties, and I'll be more than happy to consider it based on the evidence, but this is not evidence. This is Isreal's defense to what it's doing.

Not "speculation". Evidence.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/thousands-of-gaza-civilians-flee-ignoring-hamas-advice-to-stay-20140714-zt6cs.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Children_and_women_as_human_shields

That first link is more credible, although a source of the radio broadcast would be nice.

[Rehansu Tir]

Except for the fact that there were two left-wing israeli governments and prime ministers (perez and Barak) after Rabin's death, both of whom made considerable concessions to the palestinians in hopes of peace, only to have the palestinians walk away both times.

But yeah, sure, there've been no left-wing governments in israel that wanted to make peace with the palestinians since Rabin's death.

And Olmert.

Olmert and sharon both made peace offers, but they were both also right-wing, which is why I excluded them, even though I acknowledged their offers earlier.

[Viritica]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/thousands-of-gaza-civilians-flee-ignoring-hamas-advice-to-stay-20140714-zt6cs.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Children_and_women_as_human_shields

That first link is more credible, although a source of the radio broadcast would be nice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm09uRDdzto

[Nierr]

No one should - and I say this as someone who is pretty much anti-Israel - deny that the Palestinian leadership of the past has done some really stupid things.

Arafat walking away from the peace process right when the largest transfer of administrative powers from Israel to the PLA/PLO was about to occur in the West Bank and starting the Second Intifada is one of the worst decisions in history. It's 'lets fight a winter war in Russia' in effect (if not in scale). Some 48% or so of the West Bank was under PLO/PLA administration at the time and much more would've followed had Arafat not walked away.

But that was over a decade ago now. And I know, in a region where claims go back thousands of years and the he-did-it-no-he-did-it-first argument reigns supreme, it will be difficult to get over. But if Israel claims to be actually pushing for a peace effort then they have to work with the PLA/PLO - and the PLA/PLO has to be committed to peace just as much.

Anything less will just lead to this, again and again and again and again.

[Rehansu Tir]

I also remember the 1990s in Israel/Palestine, and it was a time when a lot of houses were getting bulldozed by the Israelis while the Palestinians suicide bombed Israeli territory.

Yes, that was the second intifada. The bulldozing of homes was israel's way of deterring suicide bombers, who obviously didn't care about their own lives, but hopefully cared about the livelihoods of their families - thus israel would bulldoze the home of anyone who acted as a suicide bomber.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

I also remember the 1990s in Israel/Palestine, and it was a time when a lot of houses were getting bulldozed by the Israelis while the Palestinians suicide bombed Israeli territory.

Yes, that was the second intifada. The bulldozing of homes was israel's way of deterring suicide bombers, who obviously didn't care about their own lives, but hopefully cared about the livelihoods of their families - thus israel would bulldoze the home of anyone who acted as a suicide bomber.

Yeah. Didn't really work, did it?

[Lordieth]

That first link is more credible, although a source of the radio broadcast would be nice.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm09uRDdzto

If that's genuine, then it's appalling, and shows Hamas has no regard for human life.

[Rehansu Tir]

No one should - and I say this as someone who is pretty much anti-Israel - deny that the Palestinian leadership of the past has done some really stupid things.

Arafat walking away from the peace process right when the largest transfer of administrative powers from Israel to the PLA/PLO was about to occur in the West Bank and starting the Second Intifada is one of the worst decisions in history. It's 'lets fight a winter war in Russia' in effect (if not in scale). Some 48% or so of the West Bank was under PLO/PLA administration at the time and much more would've followed had Arafat not walked away.

But that was over a decade ago now. And I know, in a region where claims go back thousands of years and the he-did-it-no-he-did-it-first argument reigns supreme, it will be difficult to get over. But if Israel claims to be actually pushing for a peace effort then they have to work with the PLA/PLO - and the PLA/PLO has to be committed to peace just as much.

Anything less will just lead to this, again and again and again and again.

And they've tried since then - barak offered an peace agreement with extensive concessions, olmert did the same, and even ariel sharon publicly stated that he would be willing to withdraw almost all of the settlements in the WB (gaza already having been cleansed of israelis), with a few remaining in exchange for land swaps, as part of a peace agreement - this is what lead to the split in likud and a backlash against sharon by the far right in israel.

But someone on the palestinian side has to be willing to say "yes" or at the very least "that's a good start, but how about this". The palestinians are notorious for walking away from negotiations without ever having made an offer or counter-offer of their own. They always wait to see what will be offered and then storm away and say that it's not enough and that there's no chance of peace.

[Rehansu Tir]

Yes, that was the second intifada. The bulldozing of homes was israel's way of deterring suicide bombers, who obviously didn't care about their own lives, but hopefully cared about the livelihoods of their families - thus israel would bulldoze the home of anyone who acted as a suicide bomber.

Yeah. Didn't really work, did it?

Sure it did. ALong with the wall that the palestinians and their apologists hate so much. Haven't been many suicide bombings lately, have there?

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Sure it did. ALong with the wall that the palestinians and their apologists hate so much. Haven't been many suicide bombings lately, have there?

The wall has stopped suicide bombings.

The bulldozings, not so much.

There are thousands of Palestinians dying, at least a handful of them because of choices they've made, you'd think that a fair few of them would be up for taking some Israelis out with them.

Obviously a more comprehensive peace plan would also work.

[Rehansu Tir]

Sure it did. ALong with the wall that the palestinians and their apologists hate so much. Haven't been many suicide bombings lately, have there?

The wall has stopped suicide bombings.

The bulldozings, not so much.

There are thousands of Palestinians dying, at least a handful of them because of choices they've made, you'd think that a fair few of them would be up for taking some Israelis out with them.

Obviously a more comprehensive peace plan would also work.

regardless, it was a sound tactic to try and deter suicide bombers. How was israel to know that palestinians value the lives and livelihood of their families as little as they value their own lives. It's not a way of thinking that israelis or any other reasonable people could fathom.

[Viritica]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm09uRDdzto

If that's genuine, then it's appalling, and shows Hamas has no regard for human life.

Told ya so.

[Grainne Ni Malley]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm09uRDdzto

If that's genuine, then it's appalling, and shows Hamas has no regard for human life.

There is contention as to whether Hamas is a terrorist organization, or a legitimate, democratically elected government with several powers on either side of the fence on the matter.

It is certainly clear by their mission statement alone that they are willing to sacrifice human life as a means to an end.

O, people!

In the midst of misadventure, from the depth of suffering, from

the believing hearts and purified arms; aware of our duty and in response

to the decree of Allah, we direct our call(6), we rally together and join

each other. We educate in the path of Allah and we make our firm

determination prevail so as to take its proper role in life, to overcome

all difficulties and to cross all hurdles. Hence our permanent state of

preparedness and our readiness to sacrifice our souls and dearest

[possessions] in the path of Allah.

http://fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/880818.htm

[Lordieth]

If that's genuine, then it's appalling, and shows Hamas has no regard for human life.

Told ya so.

It's received very little coverage. In fact the western media features very little coverage of Hamas. There was one interview recently, but that was it. I imagine it's quite dangerous in the Gaza Strip for reporters.

[Rehansu Tir]

Told ya so.

It's received very little coverage. In fact the western media features very little coverage of Hamas. There was one interview recently, but that was it. I imagine it's quite dangerous in the Gaza Strip for reporters.

the only thing receiving less coverage than hamas telling palestinians to ignore israeli warnings of pending attacks in their area, is the fact that hamas rockets and weapons have now been found in 3 UNRWA schools in gaza, and UNRWA handed them back to Hamas.

Could you imagine if israeli weapons were found in a UN school? Can you imagine the uproar in the media? DO you think there'd be even a chance that the weapons would be returned to the israeli military? But this is what happens when you have an entire UN agency (the largest one in existence) whose purpose is to launder and funnel international money to the palestinians and continue it's own existence because 99% of it's staff are also it's very own clients - can you say conflict of interest?

[Alyakia]

I also remember the 1990s in Israel/Palestine, and it was a time when a lot of houses were getting bulldozed by the Israelis while the Palestinians suicide bombed Israeli territory.

Yes, that was the second intifada. The bulldozing of homes was israel's way of deterring suicide bombers, who obviously didn't care about their own lives, but hopefully cared about the livelihoods of their families - thus israel would bulldoze the home of anyone who acted as a suicide bomber.

is this you admitting that the house demolitions were intentionally designed to hurt their families?

[Great Zionist Israel]

Yes, that was the second intifada. The bulldozing of homes was israel's way of deterring suicide bombers, who obviously didn't care about their own lives, but hopefully cared about the livelihoods of their families - thus israel would bulldoze the home of anyone who acted as a suicide bomber.

is this you admitting that the house demolitions were intentionally designed to hurt their families?

I'm fine with that though. Palestinians need to be transfered to Palestine (Jordan).

[Mallorea and Riva]

Nice job insulting a dead girl.

She deserved to die though.

This is the kind of talk that solely serves to inflame threads. Take a *** Warning for Trolling ***

[MERIZoC]

is this you admitting that the house demolitions were intentionally designed to hurt their families?

I'm fine with that though. Palestinians need to be transfered to Palestine (Jordan).

Ooh, ethnic cleansing. What fun.