Israel / Gaza / Hamas Mega-Thread

[Alyakia]

sure

you see the thing is you can't go BUT HAMAS every time someone calls israel/you on on supporting what are at worst war crimes and as best massively immoral.

So should we prosecute the USA for firebombing Tokyo?

Cause that seems like collective punishment.

we already went over this.

[Viritica]

So should we prosecute the USA for firebombing Tokyo?

Cause that seems like collective punishment.

we already went over this.

Just saying if you wanna prosecute nations for collective punishment you're probably gonna have to end up prosecuting half of the nations in the world.

Just saying.

[Genivaria]

sure

you see the thing is you can't go BUT HAMAS every time someone calls israel/you on on supporting what are at worst war crimes and as best massively immoral.

So should we prosecute the USA for firebombing Tokyo?

Cause that seems like collective punishment.

Seeing as how the Allies were desperate to force a surrender from Japan and eventually had to resort to two nukes to end the war........ no.

[Rehansu Tir]

You mean like the collective punishment of firing rockets randomly at israeli citizens? Yeah. See the thing about that is that it works both ways. Fortunately for hamas and the palestinians, the UN and international community doesn't care when the palestinians commit war crimes. the fact of the matter is, that war is, in and of itself, collective punishment, whether it happens on your territory or overseas. Just ask the families of soldiers who serve in combat zones abroad.

sure

you see the thing is you can't go BUT HAMAS every time someone calls israel/you on on supporting what are at worst war crimes and as best massively immoral.

sure I can. Israel has no obligation to act any differently than every other state in the world does. And the precedent of ignoring international law and human rights laws with no consequences has already been established, by 3rd world and 1st world states - everyone from the US, france and britain to israel's arab neighbours. So many have violated international and human rights laws with no consequences, israel has no obligation to act any differently, especially in the face of an enemy that not only violates all these laws, but has as it's goal the destruction of israel and the death of all jews everywhere.

Here's my message to all the israel bashers out there - clean up your own house first, then worry about what israel is or isn't doing.

[Viritica]

So should we prosecute the USA for firebombing Tokyo?

Cause that seems like collective punishment.

Seeing as how the Allies were desperate to force a surrender from Japan and eventually had to resort to two nukes to end the war........ no.

*shrugs* Still collective punishment.

[Alyakia]

sure

you see the thing is you can't go BUT HAMAS every time someone calls israel/you on on supporting what are at worst war crimes and as best massively immoral.

sure I can. Israel has no obligation to act any differently than every other state in the world does. And the precedent of ignoring international law and human rights laws with no consequences has already been established, by 3rd world and 1st world states - everyone from the US, france and britain to israel's arab neighbours. So many have violated international and human rights laws with no consequences, israel has no obligation to act any differently, especially in the face of an enemy that not only violates all these laws, but has as it's goal the destruction of israel and the death of all jews everywhere.

Here's my message to all the israel bashers out there - clean up your own house first, then worry about what israel is or isn't doing.

the other boys commit war crimes so it's ok for me to commit war crimes too and you should stop picking on me

[Rehansu Tir]

So should we prosecute the USA for firebombing Tokyo?

Cause that seems like collective punishment.

we already went over this.

yes yes, anything that any other state does or has done is not relevant unless they're israel or jews. got it. *nod nod* *nod nod* *nod nod* *nod nod* *nod nod* *nod nod*

[Genivaria]

sure

you see the thing is you can't go BUT HAMAS every time someone calls israel/you on on supporting what are at worst war crimes and as best massively immoral.

sure I can. Israel has no obligation to act any differently than every other state in the world does. And the precedent of ignoring international law and human rights laws with no consequences has already been established, by 3rd world and 1st world states - everyone from the US, france and britain to israel's arab neighbours. So many have violated international and human rights laws with no consequences, israel has no obligation to act any differently, especially in the face of an enemy that not only violates all these laws, but has as it's goal the destruction of israel and the death of all jews everywhere.

Here's my message to all the israel bashers out there - clean up your own house first, then worry about what israel is or isn't doing.

See it's shit like this that makes so called International Realism retarded.

[Viritica]

sure

you see the thing is you can't go BUT HAMAS every time someone calls israel/you on on supporting what are at worst war crimes and as best massively immoral.

sure I can. Israel has no obligation to act any differently than every other state in the world does. And the precedent of ignoring international law and human rights laws with no consequences has already been established, by 3rd world and 1st world states - everyone from the US, france and britain to israel's arab neighbours. So many have violated international and human rights laws with no consequences, israel has no obligation to act any differently, especially in the face of an enemy that not only violates all these laws, but has as it's goal the destruction of israel and the death of all jews everywhere.

Here's my message to all the israel bashers out there - clean up your own house first, then worry about what israel is or isn't doing.

Hell, North Korea sends people to concentration camps.

You don't hear much of a peep from the UN.

[Alyakia]

we already went over this.

Just saying if you wanna prosecute nations for collective punishment you're probably gonna have to end up prosecuting half of the nations in the world.

Just saying.

if you think total war against a vast empire and blowing up someones house in a territory you control are the same there's no point in even starting this discussion which should be done in another thread anyway

[Alyakia]

sure I can. Israel has no obligation to act any differently than every other state in the world does. And the precedent of ignoring international law and human rights laws with no consequences has already been established, by 3rd world and 1st world states - everyone from the US, france and britain to israel's arab neighbours. So many have violated international and human rights laws with no consequences, israel has no obligation to act any differently, especially in the face of an enemy that not only violates all these laws, but has as it's goal the destruction of israel and the death of all jews everywhere.

Here's my message to all the israel bashers out there - clean up your own house first, then worry about what israel is or isn't doing.

Hell, North Korea sends people to concentration camps.

You don't hear much of a peep from the UN.

are you seriously implying that the UN is totally cool with north korea

[Viritica]

Just saying if you wanna prosecute nations for collective punishment you're probably gonna have to end up prosecuting half of the nations in the world.

Just saying.

if you think total war against a vast empire and blowing up someones house in a territory you control are the same there's no point in even starting this discussion which should be done in another thread anyway

It's the same crime that you're clamoring for Israel to be prosecuted for. Collective punishment.

Why shouldn't other nations be held to the same standard.

[Viritica]

Hell, North Korea sends people to concentration camps.

You don't hear much of a peep from the UN.

are you seriously implying that the UN is totally cool with north korea

No. I'm just saying they ain't doing much.

[Viritica]

Anyone else remember the Goldstone Report? You know, the list of alleged Israeli war crimes that was proven to be false?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict

[Alyakia]

if you think total war against a vast empire and blowing up someones house in a territory you control are the same there's no point in even starting this discussion which should be done in another thread anyway

It's the same crime that you're clamoring for Israel to be prosecuted for. Collective punishment.

Why shouldn't other nations be held to the same standard.

well for a start america is not currently firebombing japan, so israel immediately jumps to the top of the list

[Alyakia]

are you seriously implying that the UN is totally cool with north korea

No. I'm just saying they ain't doing much.

what is your suggestion course of action?

[Viritica]

It's the same crime that you're clamoring for Israel to be prosecuted for. Collective punishment.

Why shouldn't other nations be held to the same standard.

well for a start america is not currently firebombing japan, so israel immediately jumps to the top of the list

Okay.

Should we prosecute America afterwards? Sounds like the courts are gonna be busy.

[Rehansu Tir]

So should we prosecute the USA for firebombing Tokyo?

Cause that seems like collective punishment.

Seeing as how the Allies were desperate to force a surrender from Japan and eventually had to resort to two nukes to end the war........ no.

really? Cuz robert mcnamara thinks differently:

"LeMay said, "If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals." And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdmfPThGZ-s

[Alyakia]

Anyone else remember the Goldstone Report? You know, the list of alleged Israeli war crimes that was proven to be false?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict

"proven" false?

[Viritica]

No. I'm just saying they ain't doing much.

what is your suggestion course of action?

What makes you think I have a course of action?

[Alyakia]

Seeing as how the Allies were desperate to force a surrender from Japan and eventually had to resort to two nukes to end the war........ no.

really? Cuz robert mcnamara thinks differently:

"LeMay said, "If we'd lost the war, we'd all have been prosecuted as war criminals." And I think he's right. He, and I'd say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdmfPThGZ-s

this would be a lot more potent if your argument was "everyone should be trialled" not "stop picking on israel!!!"

[Viritica]

Anyone else remember the Goldstone Report? You know, the list of alleged Israeli war crimes that was proven to be false?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Fact_Finding_Mission_on_the_Gaza_Conflict

"proven" false?

Yep. It was thrown out.

[Alyakia]

what is your suggestion course of action?

What makes you think I have a course of action?

well, you're saying they're not doing much. what do you expect them to do? invade?

[Rehansu Tir]

sure I can. Israel has no obligation to act any differently than every other state in the world does. And the precedent of ignoring international law and human rights laws with no consequences has already been established, by 3rd world and 1st world states - everyone from the US, france and britain to israel's arab neighbours. So many have violated international and human rights laws with no consequences, israel has no obligation to act any differently, especially in the face of an enemy that not only violates all these laws, but has as it's goal the destruction of israel and the death of all jews everywhere.

Here's my message to all the israel bashers out there - clean up your own house first, then worry about what israel is or isn't doing.

the other boys commit war crimes so it's ok for me to commit war crimes too and you should stop picking on me

No, those who commit war crimes have no right or business condemning another state if it does anything even remotely similar.

[Alyakia]

"proven" false?

Yep. It was thrown out.

by?