Is it time to deploy the National Guard at the S. Border?

[Murkwood]

A civil offence is a dispute between two citizens. By it's very definition that is a criminal offense

No, really, being in the US without proper documentation is only a civil matter. Trying to cross the border without proper documentation is a criminal offense but only if you get caught doing it.

This is what I'm trying to say.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

No, they aren't they are here without documentation, which is a CIVIL offense. Following that, Justice Anthony Kennedy said: “As a general rule, it is not a crime for a movable alien to remain in the United States.”

Also, if you thought calling me a social justice warrior is going to hurt my feelings, it's not. I wear that badge proudly.

In the present, if an illegal got here, yes. But I'm pretty sure its against the law to cross the fence.

They aren't illegal!! That's incorrect legally speaking, and it's very, very demeaning. Yes, they broke a silly law by crossing a line drawn in the sand by a government, but that doesn't make them an "illegal person."

[Murkwood]

Unarmed Drones are a much better and cheaper option, and the National Guard has widespread access to them.

Right! Let's have the US government flying unmanned drones in the United States and Mexico. Gee I can't imagine how that could go wrong, but I'm sure some Yemeni and Pakistani people could.

They are talking surveillance drones, not killing ones.

[Saruhan]

Unarmed Drones are a much better and cheaper option, and the National Guard has widespread access to them.

Right! Let's have the US government flying unmanned drones in the United States and Mexico. Gee I can't imagine how that could go wrong, but I'm sure some Yemeni and Pakistani people could.

And everything with an engine is a Tank. Just because we've attached bombs to drones before doesn't mean we always do

[Organized States]

Unarmed Drones are a much better and cheaper option, and the National Guard has widespread access to them.

ah I see... interesting...

well I expect those will prove useful for effective terrain surveillance.

The MQ-1 happens to have a very long loiter time. Plus, I suspect the use of those Surveillance Blimps to become rather common on the border soon.

[Infected Mushroom]

Unarmed Drones are a much better and cheaper option, and the National Guard has widespread access to them.

Right! Let's have the US government flying unmanned drones in the United States and Mexico. Gee I can't imagine how that could go wrong, but I'm sure some Yemeni and Pakistani people could.

what's Mexico going to do? Declare war?

This illegal immigration problem is at least partially the fault of Mexico for their unwillingness/inability to enforce their border agreements with the US.

[Saruhan]

A civil offence is a dispute between two citizens. By it's very definition that is a criminal offense

No, really, being in the US without proper documentation is only a civil matter. Trying to cross the border without proper documentation is a criminal offense but only if you get caught doing it.

Really? Okay, sorry then. Here a civil court isn't government involved. It's between two persons (family, tort, employment)

[Murkwood]

In the present, if an illegal got here, yes. But I'm pretty sure its against the law to cross the fence.

They aren't illegal!! That's incorrect legally speaking, and it's very, very demeaning. Yes, they broke a silly law by crossing a line drawn in the sand by a government, but that doesn't make them an "illegal person."

No, but it makes them a migrant who isn't legally allowed to be in the country. That person is an immigrant who participated in illegal activitys, hence the illegal immigrant.

[Infected Mushroom]

ah I see... interesting...

well I expect those will prove useful for effective terrain surveillance.

The MQ-1 happens to have a very long loiter time. Plus, I suspect the use of those Surveillance Blimps to become rather common on the border soon.

interesting...

surveillance aircraft are so cool. How do you know so much about them btw?

[Murkwood]

Right! Let's have the US government flying unmanned drones in the United States and Mexico. Gee I can't imagine how that could go wrong, but I'm sure some Yemeni and Pakistani people could.

what's Mexico going to do? Declare war?

This illegal immigration problem is at least partially the fault of Mexico for their unwillingness/inability to enforce their border agreements with the US.

Pena is doing a shit job.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Right! Let's have the US government flying unmanned drones in the United States and Mexico. Gee I can't imagine how that could go wrong, but I'm sure some Yemeni and Pakistani people could.

what's Mexico going to do? Declare war?

This illegal immigration problem is at least partially the fault of Mexico for their unwillingness/inability to enforce their border agreements with the US.

They have a war going on their country already. Drug cartels basically run their state, because they don't have the ability to crush them. Why? Because they are making so much money by sending their drugs here. You want to slow down immigration from Mexico into the United States? Legalize drugs in this country, or at least decriminalize them, and drug cartels will lose power. Once their weaker the Mexican state can work to make their country safer.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

They aren't illegal!! That's incorrect legally speaking, and it's very, very demeaning. Yes, they broke a silly law by crossing a line drawn in the sand by a government, but that doesn't make them an "illegal person."

No, but it makes them a migrant who isn't legally allowed to be in the country. That person is an immigrant who participated in illegal activitys, hence the illegal immigrant.

But I've already proved that that line of thinking is completely flawed!

[Murkwood]

what's Mexico going to do? Declare war?

This illegal immigration problem is at least partially the fault of Mexico for their unwillingness/inability to enforce their border agreements with the US.

They have a war going on their country already. Drug cartels basically run their state, because they don't have the ability to crush them. Why? Because they are making so much money by sending their drugs here. You want to slow down immigration from Mexico into the United States? Legalize drugs in this country, or at least decriminalize them, and drug cartels will lose power. Once their weaker the Mexican state can work to make their country safer.

No, what needs to happen is that Pena needs to grow a backbone and stop the human smugglers.

[Murkwood]

No, but it makes them a migrant who isn't legally allowed to be in the country. That person is an immigrant who participated in illegal activitys, hence the illegal immigrant.

But I've already proved that that line of thinking is completely flawed!

Buddy, you've proven nothing.

[Organized States]

Unarmed Drones are a much better and cheaper option, and the National Guard has widespread access to them.

Right! Let's have the US government flying unmanned drones in the United States and Mexico. Gee I can't imagine how that could go wrong, but I'm sure some Yemeni and Pakistani people could.

Customs and Border Protection has been flying UNARMED, surveillance drones over the border for years. If the National Guard was to give 8 or 9 more to add to the CBP's 2, you could patrol half the border with ISR and FLIR Capability.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

They have a war going on their country already. Drug cartels basically run their state, because they don't have the ability to crush them. Why? Because they are making so much money by sending their drugs here. You want to slow down immigration from Mexico into the United States? Legalize drugs in this country, or at least decriminalize them, and drug cartels will lose power. Once their weaker the Mexican state can work to make their country safer.

No, what needs to happen is that Pena needs to grow a backbone and stop the human smugglers.

I agree that human smugglers need to be stopped, because they don't treat people well. They extort victims, making them pay ridiculous amounts, and often kill or abuse them.

[Organized States]

The MQ-1 happens to have a very long loiter time. Plus, I suspect the use of those Surveillance Blimps to become rather common on the border soon.

interesting...

surveillance aircraft are so cool. How do you know so much about them btw?

Umm. Just a hobby, plus I live near a pretty active drone base, mainly the RQ-4 Global Hawk operates from one of the Air Force Bases nearby.

[Estrain (Ancient)]

But I've already proved that that line of thinking is completely flawed!

Buddy, you've proven nothing.

1. Them being here is a civil offense, not a criminal one.
2. “As a general rule, it is not a crime for a movable alien to remain in the United States.” - Justice Anthony Kennedy.
3. They performed one criminal act, according to a silly system of law that doesn't acknowledge the history of the United States and the obvious benefits of immigration, by crossing the border.
4. It's inhumane and dehumanizing. It's strips them of their humanity, and makes them some sort of "other."

[Estrain (Ancient)]

Right! Let's have the US government flying unmanned drones in the United States and Mexico. Gee I can't imagine how that could go wrong, but I'm sure some Yemeni and Pakistani people could.

Customs and Border Protection has been flying UNARMED, surveillance drones over the border for years. If the National Guard was to give 8 or 9 more to add to the CBP's 2, you could patrol half the border with ISR and FLIR Capability.

Fair enough, I was wrong about that. I still wouldn't like a lot of drones flying over the border. It would be an invasion of privacy, and it could be a slippery slope leading to weaponized drones.

[Infected Mushroom]

interesting...

surveillance aircraft are so cool. How do you know so much about them btw?

Umm. Just a hobby, plus I live near a pretty active drone base, mainly the RQ-4 Global Hawk operates from one of the Air Force Bases nearby.

i see...

[Murkwood]

Buddy, you've proven nothing.

1. Them being here is a civil offense, not a criminal one.
2. “As a general rule, it is not a crime for a movable alien to remain in the United States.” - Justice Robert Kennedy.
3. They performed one criminal act, according to a silly system of law that doesn't acknowledge the history of the United States and the obvious benefits of immigration, by crossing the border.
4. It's inhumane and dehumanizing. It's strips them of their humanity, and makes them some sort of "other."

1. But crossing the border is.
2. Okay...Your point?
3. I don't care if you like it or not. Its the law.
4. I think its a good description.

[Organized States]

Just to be a little bit more tolerant to Hispanics, could we please refrain from Illegal as a way to referring to them in this thread. That goes for a few other terms I won't mention.

[Murkwood]

Customs and Border Protection has been flying UNARMED, surveillance drones over the border for years. If the National Guard was to give 8 or 9 more to add to the CBP's 2, you could patrol half the border with ISR and FLIR Capability.

Fair enough, I was wrong about that. I still wouldn't like a lot of drones flying over the border. It would be an invasion of privacy, and it could be a slippery slope leading to weaponized drones.

Surveillance of Illegals = Invasion of Privacy.

Logic.

[Murkwood]

Just to be a little bit more tolerant to Hispanics, could we please refrain from Illegal as a way to referring to them in this thread. That goes for a few other terms I won't mention.

Illegal isn't degradeing of Hispanics. That's like say Mobster is degradaing to Italians.

[Infected Mushroom]

Just to be a little bit more tolerant to Hispanics, could we please refrain from Illegal as a way to referring to them in this thread. That goes for a few other terms I won't mention.

i'm sorry but the ''illegal'' (at least in my usage) isn't restricted to Hispanics.

Anyone who attempts and succeeds in entering a country illegally, that is without the proper papers, documentation and/or not through the proper channels and established official points of entry... is an illegal immigrant. I differentiate between immigrants who are Hispanics (abide by US custom laws) and illegal immigrants who are Hispanics.

Deploying the National Guard is to deal with the second group.

I don't see what ''respect'' has to do with anything.