Do you consider the Confederate flag to be racist

[Empire of Vlissingen]

No it's not the flag it self is not racist.
It was the country for letting African slaves do the dirty work.

It this way the American flag would also be racist because the Americans also had slaves.

[Socialist Czechia]

Why is the Confederate Flag racist for representing a slave state that lasted for four years, but the Stars and Stripes not racist for representing a slave state that lasted 189 years?

Because while slavery existed under the Stars and Stripes, a wish to continue the slave trade was not the basis for our revolution. On the other hand, the fear that slavery would be ended or drastically curtailed under Lincoln was the entire raison d''etre of the Confederacy.

Not the basis, but important part of it, same as Confederate reasons to secede from union wasn't based primarily and only around slavery: it was more like big last straw from federal government, pissing off southerners constantly.

What if slavery wasn't exclusive just for black people in 19th century? What if there would be still ethnically white, european slaves or arabian slaves, like in middle ages?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Because while slavery existed under the Stars and Stripes, a wish to continue the slave trade was not the basis for our revolution. On the other hand, the fear that slavery would be ended or drastically curtailed under Lincoln was the entire raison d''etre of the Confederacy.

Not the basis, but important part of it, same as Confederate reasons to secede from union wasn't based primarily and only around slavery: it was more like big last straw from federal government, pissing off southerners constantly.

What if slavery wasn't exclusive just for black people in 19th century? What if there would be still ethnically white, european slaves or arabian slaves, like in middle ages?

Only around slavery? Perhaps not. Primarily around slavery?

Would you accept Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens as an authority on that issue?

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.

[Molsonian Republics]

Redneck and hillbilly are two similar but still completely different things. It's also referred to as the Dixie flag in America

Exactly and perfectly true!

CSA = racist government; stars and bars = flag of a racist government, therefore it is a racist flag; Dixie is the anthem of a racist government, so it is a racist song.

Dixie was one of Abraham Lincoln's favorite songs. I'm sure we're all agreed Abraham Lincoln wasn't racist.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Exactly and perfectly true!

CSA = racist government; stars and bars = flag of a racist government, therefore it is a racist flag; Dixie is the anthem of a racist government, so it is a racist song.

Dixie was one of Abraham Lincoln's favorite songs. I'm sure we're all agreed Abraham Lincoln wasn't racist.

"This non-racist person liked a song that was the unofficial anthem of a racist, slave-owning government, so it's not racist"

Please explain your reasoning.

I mean, despite not being a Christian, I quite like "Jesu, Joy Of Man's Desiring". Does that make the song less religious?

[Tekania]

Not the basis, but important part of it, same as Confederate reasons to secede from union wasn't based primarily and only around slavery: it was more like big last straw from federal government, pissing off southerners constantly.

What if slavery wasn't exclusive just for black people in 19th century? What if there would be still ethnically white, european slaves or arabian slaves, like in middle ages?

The opposite is actually true. The Slave trade was not itself an issue for the revolution. Though Jefferson wanted it to be (in the inverse, that is an ending of the slave trade to the American colonies; while the Crown wanted to continue it based upon its economic benefit) during the revolutionary period Jefferson himself had little support for this issue even from the Burgesses. And while a note about this was initially part of early drafts to the DoI, it was no longer included by the time the Continental Congress completed the final draft.

He has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms among us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, & murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another.

This was removed by the congress. As such at the revolution there was a perfect opportunity for the Congress to make a statement about and in somewhat an opposition to slavery, they consciously and intentionally chose to make none what-so-ever.

[Distruzio]

Not anymore than the Union flag is.

If the flag of the United States is not considered racist, then neither can the Confederate Flag.

[Lemanrussland]

Dixie was one of Abraham Lincoln's favorite songs. I'm sure we're all agreed Abraham Lincoln wasn't racist.

"This non-racist person liked a song that was the unofficial anthem of a racist, slave-owning government, so it's not racist"

Please explain your reasoning.

I wouldn't call Lincoln a non-racist, at least by modern standards. People look back on him like he was a beacon of modern progressive sensibilities, but the truth is that he had reservations about African-Americans and their place in American society. He originally wanted to have them repatriated to Africa, and did not view them as being social equals to whites.

[Herrebrugh]

It's a flag. Jeesh.

To expand on that, unless the flag in question has a racist caricature on it, no it isn't racist, even if the country using it was. The flag of Nazi-Germany isn't anti-semetic, either. It's a red field with a black swastica in a white circle in the center.

[Distruzio]

"This non-racist person liked a song that was the unofficial anthem of a racist, slave-owning government, so it's not racist"

Please explain your reasoning.

I wouldn't call Lincoln a non-racist, at least by modern standards. People look back on him like he was a beacon of modern progressive sensibilities, but the truth is that he had reservations about African-Americans and their place in American society. He originally wanted to have them repatriated to Africa, and did not view them as being social equals to whites.

In what way was Lincoln "non-racist?" He was most certainly racist by modern standards. He was much worse, in fact. Racists, at least, acknowledge the right of the "inferior" to reside in the same country/nation. Lincoln did not.

[World War 3 America]

It's not only racist, it's also the symbol of anti-democratic traitors who turned against not only the values of this country, but also the values of modernity.

But it is protected under the first amendment.

We only broke away because The North wasn't following the Constitution!
And it's not racist.

[The Land Fomerly Known as Ligerplace]

It's not only racist, it's also the symbol of anti-democratic traitors who turned against not only the values of this country, but also the values of modernity.

But it is protected under the first amendment.

We only broke away because The North wasn't following the Constitution!
And it's not racist.

Sauce for "only".

[Distruzio]

It's not only racist, it's also the symbol of anti-democratic traitors who turned against not only the values of this country, but also the values of modernity.

But it is protected under the first amendment.

We only broke away because The North wasn't following the Constitution!
And it's not racist.

He would say that, were the northern states rejecting the constitution, they were justified in doing so because democracy is the idealization of equality and certain ideals transcend law. You and I would agree that certain ideals transcend the law. Our disagreement on the justification of the North would be utterly biased and an end of conversation.

Also, the Confederates were traitors to the Union. They argued that the northern states had become traitors to the constitution which is a very different thing.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

"This non-racist person liked a song that was the unofficial anthem of a racist, slave-owning government, so it's not racist"

Please explain your reasoning.

I wouldn't call Lincoln a non-racist, at least by modern standards. People look back on him like he was a beacon of modern progressive sensibilities, but the truth is that he had reservations about African-Americans and their place in American society. He originally wanted to have them repatriated to Africa, and did not view them as being social equals to whites.

Which made him positively egalitarian by the standards of the day.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

It's not only racist, it's also the symbol of anti-democratic traitors who turned against not only the values of this country, but also the values of modernity.

But it is protected under the first amendment.

We only broke away because The North wasn't following the Constitution!
And it's not racist.

Again, Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens would disagree with you.

[Distruzio]

I wouldn't call Lincoln a non-racist, at least by modern standards. People look back on him like he was a beacon of modern progressive sensibilities, but the truth is that he had reservations about African-Americans and their place in American society. He originally wanted to have them repatriated to Africa, and did not view them as being social equals to whites.

Which made him positively egalitarian by the standards of the day.

True. But that's not what was originally said, is it. "According to modern standards..." was the comment. Lincolns positions were hardly egalitarian by our standards. It makes him one hell of a bigot.

[Distruzio]

We only broke away because The North wasn't following the Constitution!
And it's not racist.

Again, Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens would disagree with you.

The man who argued and voted against secession for the reasons you hint at? Hardly a man supporting your argument I'd say.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

The Swastika doesn't actually represent Nazism yet because of its social stigma it needs to be banned, the same should be done for the Confederate flag which is no different.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Which made him positively egalitarian by the standards of the day.

True. But that's not what was originally said, is it. "According to modern standards..." was the comment. Lincolns positions were hardly egalitarian by our standards. It makes him one hell of a bigot.

Sure, but with a few radical exceptions of the day, I can''t imagine any white person of that time who would measure up in that capacity. It's a bit of a silly way of looking at things.

[Gaelic Celtia]

The Swastika doesn't actually represent Nazism yet because of its social stigma it needs to be banned, the same should be done for the Confederate flag which is no different.

The confederate flag was not a misused traditional Buddhist symbol. It is very different.

[World War 3 America]

But it is protected under the first amendment.[/quote]
We only broke away because The North wasn't following the Constitution!
And it's not racist.[/quote]

Sauce for "only".[/quote]
You're an idiot, and stop putting links to "sex" stuff you pervert.

[Gaelic Celtia]

It's not only racist, it's also the symbol of anti-democratic traitors who turned against not only the values of this country, but also the values of modernity.

But it is protected under the first amendment.

We only broke away because The North wasn't following the Constitution!
And it's not racist.

Just as the south was not honoring the democratic system of the United States as outlined in the constitution and responded essentially with a temper tantrum?

The flag that flew for armies fighting to keep other humans enslaved does not have racist overtones? Sure.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Again, Confederate Vice-President Alexander Stephens would disagree with you.

The man who argued and voted against secession for the reasons you hint at? Hardly a man supporting your argument I'd say.

I'm not sure why. Once the war started, he supported it entirely, even turning down an offer from Sherman to negotiate a separate peace for Georgia when the opportunity presented itself, and the war was all but lost for the South. He may have been reluctant to go to war, but once war broke out, he was firmly and totally on the side of the South. His professional colleagues certainly seemed to think so, electing him to high office more than once.

[Davincia]

Try to remember what the Banner of Traitors did to the United States. It was this treachery that led to Lincoln's death and the South's usurpal of Reconstruction efforts which would have prevented the Civil Rights movements, since the Radical Republicans would have given equal rights in the first place. Then, the hundreds of beatings, murders, and other horrors of the 19th and 20th centuries would have never occurred. Try to remember the blood spilt by brave Union soldiers, old and young, as they died trying to reclaim their lost bretheren in the South and make our nation whole again. I pity those who have forgotten the stains of blood left of the Confederates' hands. It was their treachery that set back political and social thinking back a full century. God alone can tell me why anyone would show pride in it!

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

The Swastika doesn't actually represent Nazism yet because of its social stigma it needs to be banned, the same should be done for the Confederate flag which is no different.

The confederate flag was not a misused traditional Buddhist symbol. It is very different.

No its not.

The social stigma behind it associates it with slavery.