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is america losing its status as a superpower?

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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:50 am

Auxatia wrote:Government should have a minimal role in determining what to do with what you earn, and how you go about it. Apart from if said practice brings harm to anyone. Then, regulation should play a part.


Sure.
It just turns out the minimal is substantial higher than the neoliberal whiners seem to think. "MUH CAPITALISM" as an argument has lost all it's veracity.
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There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Auxatia
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Postby Auxatia » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:54 am

Honestly, capitalism and globalization I believe is the best system in the world. It emphasises more personal freedoms and that if you work hard, you can achieve success. Good motivation, and it's true.

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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:57 am

Auxatia wrote:Honestly, capitalism and globalization I believe is the best system in the world. It emphasises more personal freedoms and that if you work hard, you can achieve success. Good motivation, and it's true.


Yes, noone is denying that. The problem is a bunch of idiots running around who don't understand that there is such a thing as social democracy.
I'm also a capitalist. I support free markets. That doesn't mean I have to support low taxes and low welfare. The "MUH CAPITALISM!" crowd are actively ruining the US and UK economies and leading them into a downward spiral. You won't be able to find me a single time in history where their insane model of economics has actually benefitted a country as large as most nations. It only works in tax shelters.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Empire of Vlissingen
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Postby Empire of Vlissingen » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:58 am

Yes it's falling apart because of the massive debt and corrupt and stupid politicians.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:59 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:Yes it's falling apart because of the massive debt and corrupt and stupid politicians.


So you don't understand how the debt works then. Same as all those stupid politicians who keep telling you the debt is a huge problem.
Well, ok.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Tagmatium
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Tagmatium » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:00 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Auxatia wrote:Honestly, capitalism and globalization I believe is the best system in the world. It emphasises more personal freedoms and that if you work hard, you can achieve success. Good motivation, and it's true.


Yes, noone is denying that. The problem is a bunch of idiots running around who don't understand that there is such a thing as social democracy.
I'm also a capitalist. I support free markets. That doesn't mean I have to support low taxes and low welfare. The "MUH CAPITALISM!" crowd are actively ruining the US and UK economies and leading them into a downward spiral. You won't be able to find me a single time in history where their insane model of economics has actually benefitted a country as large as most nations. It only works in tax shelters.

Why do you hate freedom, Ostro?
The above post may or may not be serious.
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Empire of Vlissingen
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Postby Empire of Vlissingen » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:01 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Empire of Vlissingen wrote:Yes it's falling apart because of the massive debt and corrupt and stupid politicians.


So you don't understand how the debt works then. Same as all those stupid politicians who keep telling you the debt is a huge problem.
Well, ok.

Yes the problem is huge because you have to pay intrest and the more intrest you pay the less you can spend on social services.
I live in The Netherlands.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:03 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
So you don't understand how the debt works then. Same as all those stupid politicians who keep telling you the debt is a huge problem.
Well, ok.

Yes the problem is huge because you have to pay intrest and the more intrest you pay the less you can spend on social services.


It's investment in the economy. Cutting the debt is like cutting investment. It's stagnation. The fact you people are STILL running around and spouting this bullshit, long after the research paper that scared you all into saying this shit has been debunked, is a testement to the fact your nonsense is ideologically based, not based in reality.

When we spend 5 bucks on some welfare, that 5 bucks is spent buying stuff. That keeps people employed, and filters toward corporations and investment etc.
It's taxed multiple times along the way, and results in growth for the business.
The "Interest" is paid for multiple times over by the increase in revenue.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Empire of Vlissingen
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Postby Empire of Vlissingen » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:05 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Empire of Vlissingen wrote:Yes the problem is huge because you have to pay intrest and the more intrest you pay the less you can spend on social services.


It's investment in the economy. Cutting the debt is like cutting investment. It's stagnation. The fact you people are STILL running around and spouting this bullshit, long after the research paper that scared you all into saying this shit has been debunked, is a testement to the fact your nonsense is ideologically based, not based in reality.

No it's not an investment in the economy when the investment turns into debt and you have to tax future generations which will cause economic damage.
I live in The Netherlands.
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Alexzanabbgggggg
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Postby Alexzanabbgggggg » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:06 am

Yes, China and Russia are the new (and old) superpowers.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:07 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
It's investment in the economy. Cutting the debt is like cutting investment. It's stagnation. The fact you people are STILL running around and spouting this bullshit, long after the research paper that scared you all into saying this shit has been debunked, is a testement to the fact your nonsense is ideologically based, not based in reality.

No it's not an investment in the economy when the investment turns into debt and you have to tax future generations which will cause economic damage.


That's nonsense. Absolute nonsense. Any person who runs a business will tell you you are being completely stupid if you rave about how taking a loan from the bank to expand the business is an awful idea because we'll be harming future profits.
Businesses take loans to expand ALL THE TIME. Because that's a good way to increase revenue.

We wont be taxing future generations MORE. We'll just be taxing future generations. They'll have more shit, so we can tax them the same amount.
Your nonsense fantasy land economics has been debunked, over and over, in the real world.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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Auxatia
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Postby Auxatia » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:09 am

China? Pfffftt. Not on par with the U.S yet economically or militarily, and probably not for a while.

As for Russia, well, he's like the old guy at the bar, a scar across his face, a vodka in his hand, and he's just mumbling to himself 'I could take you all on, just, come along and try. Don't forgetabout Russia.' *takes a sip*

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Azaflaza
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Postby Azaflaza » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:16 am

Cailfornia wrote:In recent days it seems like our economy is slower then the rest of the world and our political and military prowess has decline. Is America still a superpower?

An economic power, most definitely, the military power will hold on for as long as America can afford to. Then once both military and economic power have declined, political power will naturally follow.

It's the natural cycle of nations, no one can stay on top forever and America is no exception. Every country has its rise and fall. Some countries are lucky enough for the cycle to come back round such as china who were a superpower in Asia until japan began beating them down but are now experiencing another rise in power.

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Azaflaza
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Postby Azaflaza » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:19 am

Auxatia wrote:China? Pfffftt. Not on par with the U.S yet economically or militarily, and probably not for a while.

As for Russia, well, he's like the old guy at the bar, a scar across his face, a vodka in his hand, and he's just mumbling to himself 'I could take you all on, just, come along and try. Don't forgetabout Russia.' *takes a sip*

Maybe but Russia has what Europe needs, oil and gas. So until they don't need Russian energy Europe needs to play along with the old guy at the bar.

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Auxatia
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Postby Auxatia » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:25 am

True. And Iran is like the guy with a ginger ale, and a leisure suit on, and he's walking around like 'ey! How'sitgoin'?' Everybody thinks there's something just not quite right about him. And the girls are like 'he's weird', and then America and his mates are all 'we know, we'll deal with it'. So, America goes up to Arabia and strikes up a convo, and he's 'oh, we aren't with him. When he was Persia, we knew him, but now... well, it's just a phase, I think. He's a completely different guy, though. And not in the good way."

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Keyboard Warriors
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Postby Keyboard Warriors » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:25 am

Azaflaza wrote:
Auxatia wrote:China? Pfffftt. Not on par with the U.S yet economically or militarily, and probably not for a while.

As for Russia, well, he's like the old guy at the bar, a scar across his face, a vodka in his hand, and he's just mumbling to himself 'I could take you all on, just, come along and try. Don't forgetabout Russia.' *takes a sip*

Maybe but Russia has what Europe needs, oil and gas. So until they don't need Russian energy Europe needs to play along with the old guy at the bar.

Russia's economy depends on selling the gas, not hoarding it.
Yes.

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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:26 am

Auxatia wrote:True. And Iran is like the guy with a ginger ale, and a leisure suit on, and he's walking around like 'ey! How'sitgoin'?' Everybody thinks there's something just not quite right about him. And the girls are like 'he's weird', and then America and his mates are all 'we know, we'll deal with it'. So, America goes up to Arabia and strikes up a convo, and he's 'oh, we aren't with him. When he was Persia, we knew him, but now... well, it's just a phase, I think. He's a completely different guy, though. And not in the good way."

These analogies are getting more tenuous and bizarre.
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Auxatia
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Postby Auxatia » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:28 am

And then someone says Iraq is in the parking lot with a gun, and then America's like 'Woah, wait. He has a gun?' So he goes up to Iraq, and says 'let me search you'. Iraq's like 'you're not gonna search me, buddy', so America turns to his mates, and they're like 'eh', so then he says 'listen, if you don't let me search you, I'm gonna knock you out, I'm giving you a chance here, mate.' And his mates over outside the bar talk amongst themselves 'nah, he's not gonna knock him out, he's only saying tha- HOLY SHIT! YOU HIT HIM!' America says 'Wait, maybe the gun's in his jacket. Wait, no, maybe it's in his pants. Eh, he was an asshole anyway.'

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Zionist State of North Israel
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Postby Zionist State of North Israel » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:29 am

they have the largest military in the world so obviously no
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Azaflaza
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Postby Azaflaza » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:31 am

Keyboard Warriors wrote:
Azaflaza wrote:Maybe but Russia has what Europe needs, oil and gas. So until they don't need Russian energy Europe needs to play along with the old guy at the bar.

Russia's economy depends on selling the gas, not hoarding it.

There's a hungry beast in Asia called china that Russia could easily sell the gas to instead of Europe.

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Tagmatium
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Postby Tagmatium » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:33 am

Zionist State of North Israel wrote:they have the largest military in the world so obviously no

Well, China's got more people in its armed forces than the USA does.

Do you mean largest budget?
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Keyboard Warriors
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Postby Keyboard Warriors » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:34 am

Azaflaza wrote:
Keyboard Warriors wrote:Russia's economy depends on selling the gas, not hoarding it.

There's a hungry beast in Asia called china that Russia could easily sell the gas to instead of Europe.

Really? Which Russian pipelines go to China and what's China going to do with the gas supplies it already has?
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Alcase
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Postby Alcase » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:39 am

Shilya wrote:Is the US still a superpower? Yes, very much so.

Is it in decline? Compared to when?
The US got a ridicolous power push after Russia collapsed. Now Russia, China and the EU are trying to fill the remainder of the power vacuum again. That might cost the US part of its newgained superpowerness again.

Will the US stay a superpower? Odds are yes.

Russia didn't collapse, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics did.
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Czechanada
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Postby Czechanada » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:06 am

I think humanity needs to expand its scope in analysis of power beyond nation-states.

In this age of globalization, international corporations and other subnational organizations can have just as great an influence as a country can have.
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The Federation of Venland
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Postby The Federation of Venland » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:13 am

I do think America is losing its self as a super power

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