by Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:00 am
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:04 am
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:04 am
Dejanic wrote:I think at that point a world federation is needed.
by Dejanic » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:05 am
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:07 am
by Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:08 am
Viritica wrote:NATO should certainly be expanded to protect other nations. However, I don't want this to turn into another NATO-Warsaw Pact thing if we're going up against China and Russia.
by Dejanic » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:09 am
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:10 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Viritica wrote:NATO should certainly be expanded to protect other nations. However, I don't want this to turn into another NATO-Warsaw Pact thing if we're going up against China and Russia.
If China liberalizes slightly, I'd put them as demi-westernized.
If they democratize as well, i'd happily have them in a super-nato.
The reason I'm thinking about it now, is that we need to make it clear to the Russians and the rest of the world that the Western Hegenomy is not over yet. We must continue to project power so as to prevent chaos. If it becomes apparent to the tinpot tyrants of the world that we can no longer police it, there will be anarchy, human rights abuses, genocides, more so than usual even.
Russia will invade more places maybe, if they can get away with it.
Doing this now would make Russia think twice about that in the future. We need a show of determination and strength, and this is one that doesn't actually require us to do much.
by Sun Wukong » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:11 am
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:11 am
Dejanic wrote:Viritica wrote:What makes you think that? Half of the nations in this world can't even get along (e.g. China and Taiwan, North and South Korea, Russia and Ukraine, Israel and Palestine, India and Pakistan, etc.)
Yeah they don't get along now. But we've more world unity now than we did 20 years ago. It won't happen anytime soon, but it will happen eventually. These continental/trade blocs are just the beginning. As technology increases and we get closer to a type 1 civilisation, world unity will have to happen.
The question isn't if world unity will happen. The question is when, and under what political form.
by Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:13 am
Viritica wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
If China liberalizes slightly, I'd put them as demi-westernized.
If they democratize as well, i'd happily have them in a super-nato.
The reason I'm thinking about it now, is that we need to make it clear to the Russians and the rest of the world that the Western Hegenomy is not over yet. We must continue to project power so as to prevent chaos. If it becomes apparent to the tinpot tyrants of the world that we can no longer police it, there will be anarchy, human rights abuses, genocides, more so than usual even.
Russia will invade more places maybe, if they can get away with it.
Doing this now would make Russia think twice about that in the future. We need a show of determination and strength, and this is one that doesn't actually require us to do much.
I'm not entirely sure China will be quick to even become demi-westernized. Not with their aggressive attitude toward Taiwan and Tibet.
Russia... Russia is more of a problem. Putin's a dictator and to me it almost seems like he's somehow trying to rebuild the old USSR. He's invaded a lot of former Soviet territories (e.g. Chechen which was somewhat justifiable, Georgia, and now Ukraine).
by Darwinish Brentsylvania » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:13 am
by Blazedtown » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:13 am
by Ostroeuropa » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:13 am
Sun Wukong wrote:It already sort of does.
I mean Turkey isn't really anywhere near the North Atlantic, now is it?
by Dejanic » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:15 am
Viritica wrote:Dejanic wrote:Yeah they don't get along now. But we've more world unity now than we did 20 years ago. It won't happen anytime soon, but it will happen eventually. These continental/trade blocs are just the beginning. As technology increases and we get closer to a type 1 civilisation, world unity will have to happen.
The question isn't if world unity will happen. The question is when, and under what political form.
You really expect billions of people from all different cultures, religions, languages, and ethnicities to suddenly unify? Even in the far future?
by Aeken » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:15 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Viritica wrote:I'm not entirely sure China will be quick to even become demi-westernized. Not with their aggressive attitude toward Taiwan and Tibet.
Russia... Russia is more of a problem. Putin's a dictator and to me it almost seems like he's somehow trying to rebuild the old USSR. He's invaded a lot of former Soviet territories (e.g. Chechen which was somewhat justifiable, Georgia, and now Ukraine).
Tibet is rightfully theirs probably. The majority of the inhabitants identify as Chinese. It's only 1/3rd who identify as Tibetan.
Greece and Turkey get on just fine, in the grand scheme of things, despite the Cyprus issue.
China see's the big picture. They understand that world diplomacy and economics is where true power lies. Unlike the Russians, who seem to be under the impression this is the age of cannon and cavalry. The Chinese would not rock the boat over Taiwan.
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:19 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Viritica wrote:I'm not entirely sure China will be quick to even become demi-westernized. Not with their aggressive attitude toward Taiwan and Tibet.
Russia... Russia is more of a problem. Putin's a dictator and to me it almost seems like he's somehow trying to rebuild the old USSR. He's invaded a lot of former Soviet territories (e.g. Chechen which was somewhat justifiable, Georgia, and now Ukraine).
Tibet is rightfully theirs probably. The majority of the inhabitants identify as Chinese. It's only 1/3rd who identify as Tibetan.
Greece and Turkey get on just fine, in the grand scheme of things, despite the Cyprus issue.
China see's the big picture. They understand that world diplomacy and economics is where true power lies. Unlike the Russians, who seem to be under the impression this is the age of cannon and cavalry. The Chinese would not rock the boat over Taiwan.
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:20 am
Dejanic wrote:Viritica wrote:You really expect billions of people from all different cultures, religions, languages, and ethnicities to suddenly unify? Even in the far future?
I never said they'd suddenly unify. I said that the world will progress towards that stage slowly, and it will probably happen long after I and you died.
Most countries are progressing towards continental unification, its only a matter until world unification follows.
by Blazedtown » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:20 am
Viritica wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
Tibet is rightfully theirs probably. The majority of the inhabitants identify as Chinese. It's only 1/3rd who identify as Tibetan.
Greece and Turkey get on just fine, in the grand scheme of things, despite the Cyprus issue.
China see's the big picture. They understand that world diplomacy and economics is where true power lies. Unlike the Russians, who seem to be under the impression this is the age of cannon and cavalry. The Chinese would not rock the boat over Taiwan.
China still has issues with Taiwan. It all boils down to the Chinese Civil War. The government of the former Republic of China fled to Taiwan and set up shop there. The PRC isn't very happy about that, even today.
by European Socialist Republic » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:21 am
by Immoren » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:24 am
European Socialist Republic wrote:I'm for. Anyone any ideas for a new name? Because North Atlantic Treaty Organization wouldn't fit if there are members in the South Atlantic and the Pacific.
discoursedrome wrote:everyone knows that quote, "I know not what weapons World War Three will be fought, but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones," but in a way it's optimistic and inspiring because it suggests that even after destroying civilization and returning to the stone age we'll still be sufficiently globalized and bellicose to have another world war right then and there
by Sun Wukong » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:25 am
European Socialist Republic wrote:I'm for. Anyone any ideas for a new name? Because North Atlantic Treaty Organization wouldn't fit if there are members in the South Atlantic and the Pacific.
by Viritica » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:26 am
Blazedtown wrote:Viritica wrote:China still has issues with Taiwan. It all boils down to the Chinese Civil War. The government of the former Republic of China fled to Taiwan and set up shop there. The PRC isn't very happy about that, even today.
Which is why we need to bring them into the fold. Not the former Republic of China, the Republic of China.
by Blazedtown » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:31 am
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