Jesus > Mao in China

[Murkwood]

So Foreign Policy just released this fascinating analysis of terms on Weibo, the Chinese Twitter, it shows that Christian terms far outweigh Communist ones, in a country where the government has tried ever so hard to make the government the religion.

In light of this and many other developments, do you, NSG, think China will release it's stranglehold on religion, which is all pretty much state run? Or will they crack down more? I believe the former. Christianity and Buddhism, wether the government likes it or not, isn't going away soon. I also think the Xi Jingping has made many strides towards more freedom in China, which is commendable.

[Dejanic]

The government in China doesn't exactly support Communism either you know. It's probably as widely reviled as Jesus. This isn't news.

Will China release its hold on Christianity and other religions? No, because they don't have to. The have no state bigger than them to demand such democratic reforms. China is the biggest and toughest kid in the playground, they're untouchable.

Also, the "growth" of Christianity in China is largely exaggerated. I don't think its coincidental that one only seems to find these "statistics" on the blog posts of American Christians.

[Murkwood]

The government in China doesn't exactly support Communism either you know. It's probably as widely reviled as Jesus. This isn't news.

Will China release its hold on Christianity and other religions? No, because they don't have to. The have no state bigger than them to demand such democratic reforms. China is the biggest and toughest kid in the playground, they're untouchable.

Also, the "growth" of Christianity in China is largely exaggerated. I don't think its coincidental that one only seems to find these "statistics" on the blog posts of American Christians.

It's not like you can trust the Chinese government to faithfully report the statistics.

[Murkwood]

The graph, for those who can't reach it:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_u ... oFinal.png

[Divusia]

It can't and it won't.

If it did, imagine the influence the Dalai Lama would have on Tibet. Archbishops would condemn government brutality. People would revolt.

[Murkwood]

It can't and it won't.

If it did, imagine the influence the Dalai Lama would have on Tibet. Archbishops would condemn government brutality. People would revolt.

Their grip on the populace is weakening, however.

[Herskerstad]

Well, it'd be interesting if suddenly China got the South Korea effect.

[Murkwood]

Well, it'd be interesting if suddenly China got the South Korea effect.

Elaborate.

[Geilinor]

The Chinese government disassociated itself from Mao long ago. They're just another dictatorship now.

[The Liberated Territories]

Well, it'd be interesting if suddenly China got the South Korea effect.

Elaborate.

Opan Gangnam Style!

No?

[Murkwood]

Elaborate.

Opan Gangnam Style!

No?

No.

[Geilinor]

Well, it'd be interesting if suddenly China got the South Korea effect.

Is that the "so tired of hearing about North Korea every day we don't care anymore" effect?

[Herskerstad]

Well, it'd be interesting if suddenly China got the South Korea effect.

Elaborate.

Demographically since the liberation from Imperial Japan, South Korea experienced a huge growth in Christianity which is still ongoing.

China is in a peculiar position given the government censorship and repressions of religions at large. 'somewhat dejure, but evidently defacto' No place has this been more apparent than in the media, but the internet is gradually changing the battlefield of ideas and ideals. If at some time it liberalizes fully, then the influx of Christian ideals could start a snowball effect as it has already reached the cultural level.

[Murkwood]

Elaborate.

Demographically since the liberation from Imperial Japan, South Korea experienced a huge growth in Christianity which is still ongoing.

China is in a peculiar position given the government censorship and repressions of religions at large. 'somewhat dejure, but evidently defacto' No place has this been more apparent than in the media, but the internet is gradually changing the battlefield of ideas and ideals. If at some time it liberalizes fully, then the influx of Christian ideals could start a snowball effect as it has already reached the cultural level.

The snowball seems to have already started. 60 million Christians is a lot.

[Herskerstad]

Demographically since the liberation from Imperial Japan, South Korea experienced a huge growth in Christianity which is still ongoing.

China is in a peculiar position given the government censorship and repressions of religions at large. 'somewhat dejure, but evidently defacto' No place has this been more apparent than in the media, but the internet is gradually changing the battlefield of ideas and ideals. If at some time it liberalizes fully, then the influx of Christian ideals could start a snowball effect as it has already reached the cultural level.

The snowball seems to have already started. 60 million Christians is a lot.

We are talking around 1 billion Chinese and there are a lot of factors at play. If China was to liberalize instantly, and if there was to be a consorted effort among the religious factors in North America and Europe. 'Ie, pope visiting, legalizing the bible, ensuring that proselytizing becomes multi-layered throughout the media of the nation' then yes. It would be a fair chance of it hitting big time, as China is far more ideal theologically for this than say India.

[Napkiraly]

The Chinese government has distanced itself from Mao for quite awhile now.

I mean one of the things that caused Bo Xilai to gain so many enemies in the government was promoting pro-Mao, red culture incentives.

[Hollorous]

Demographically since the liberation from Imperial Japan, South Korea experienced a huge growth in Christianity which is still ongoing.

China is in a peculiar position given the government censorship and repressions of religions at large. 'somewhat dejure, but evidently defacto' No place has this been more apparent than in the media, but the internet is gradually changing the battlefield of ideas and ideals. If at some time it liberalizes fully, then the influx of Christian ideals could start a snowball effect as it has already reached the cultural level.

The snowball seems to have already started. 60 million Christians is a lot.

60 million? The number I usually see is about 35 million.

Although I did see a Christian site once that claimed 200 million followers.

Aren't numbers subjective and fun?

[Hollorous]

The Chinese government has distanced itself from Mao for quite awhile now.

I mean one of the things that caused Bo Xilai to gain so many enemies in the government was promoting pro-Mao, red culture incentives.

I think it's more that the government has distanced itself from Mao's policies. His face is still on the money, merchandise, and plenty of movies are made about him. Anything that smells like the Cultural Revolution though (i.e. the period where the Communist Party lost control of the country) gets stamped out or, at the very least, is portrayed as a mistake, as a public disorder, etc...

[Herskerstad]

The snowball seems to have already started. 60 million Christians is a lot.

60 million? The number I usually see is about 35 million.

Although I did see a Christian site once that claimed 200 million followers.

Aren't numbers subjective and fun?

I think the Chinese government itself has a history of dressing up numbers, added to censorship, which again adds to demographical settings as it still has a somewhat antagonizing view on Christianity. I doubt it is quite as low as 35 million, I can pretty much guarantee it is not as high as 200, but for me it is mostly about what will happen in the next 2 decades. As part of the South Korea effect was that traditional religions came under extreme scrutiny and was largely repressed 'and partially replaced' by the imperial Japanese, yet when that effect was gone and the nation was wholesomely exposed to the west, unlike the north which still continued a similar trend as the imperial Japanese on the religious front, had a huge growth of Christianity instead of just a resurgence of the traditional religions, and it may very well become the most adhered to religion in the nation in the future.

In a similar way I think the Chinese government stands pragmatic enough to reform and it likely will in the future, as protests are more common in that nation ever since their environmental 'great smog of China' got unleashed. While google may have been shut down, the effects of it's exposure has had significant effects on the general populace, as has western media which is partially due to why Christian terminology is becoming more significant, but as it stands the average Chinese in China know virtually nothing about Jesus in the same sense we may have a lose idea of who Confucius is, but with the demographically setting, the cultural impact, the softening takes on religion by the state after high repression, it may potentially be the most attractive place for missionaries all over the world both for the man on the street and the man on the internet. A lot of this presupposes that China will lessen some of it's rather crude practices of state-run religious authorities, but if anything palpable to the South Korea effect would take place in China, it would have a tremendous impact on western-east relations and potentially become the single greatest proselytizing campaign so far in history.

[Ainin]

People in China aren't the brainwashed communists that they're stereotypically made out to be. Communism isn't a common topic discussed. Plus, the pope has been making the news often in China as well, so no wonder people would search him up online.

[Norstal]

So Foreign Policy just released this fascinating analysis of terms on Weibo, the Chinese Twitter, it shows that Christian terms far outweigh Communist ones, in a country where the government has tried ever so hard to make the government the religion.

In light of this and many other developments, do you, NSG, think China will release it's stranglehold on religion, which is all pretty much state run? Or will they crack down more? I believe the former. Christianity and Buddhism, wether the government likes it or not, isn't going away soon. I also think the Xi Jingping has made many strides towards more freedom in China, which is commendable.

Oh my god, Jesus Christ, these communists likes to say Christian terms instead of communist ones. Sweet holy Mary. I mean, just holy shit.

[Nierr]

It can't and it won't.

If it did, imagine the influence the Dalai Lama would have on Tibet. Archbishops would condemn government brutality. People would revolt.

Their grip on the populace is weakening, however.

According to who exactly?

[Divusia]

People in China aren't the brainwashed communists that they're stereotypically made out to be. Communism isn't a common topic discussed. Plus, the pope has been making the news often in China as well, so no wonder people would search him up online.

I'm pretty sure China blocks the pope out as "a foreign power" ever since they cut relations with the Holy See.

[Arumdaum]

Elaborate.

Demographically since the liberation from Imperial Japan, South Korea experienced a huge growth in Christianity which is still ongoing.

Protestantism is controversial in Korea and on the decline. Catholicism is seeing only modest growth.

[Herskerstad]

Demographically since the liberation from Imperial Japan, South Korea experienced a huge growth in Christianity which is still ongoing.

Protestantism is controversial in Korea and on the decline. Catholicism is seeing only modest growth.

I think you're a notch wrong on that assessment. Protestantism is having a mild growth despite the mid 2000-2010 controversies in which it suffered a statistical setback, and is now behaving generally more amicably by co-integrating. Though there will be larger issues going that much is coming with a form of prosperity gospel which always will have a backlash come first major recession. The Catholics are less likely to suffer from this and have had an overall stable and impressive growth to boot as these things do not turn on a dime.

Still, the nation is essentially divided into 3 camps. You have the buddhist and traditionals on one side, which are becoming the clear minorities although still sizeable. The Christians which is a growing and more sizeable minority, and then the atheistic/agnostic/apathetic camp which is roughly just under half the population making it the largest camp as it stands.

However should the growth continue on it's average 'it likely won't' I'd say it would take a generation and around a half to become the majority of the 3 sectors.