I have the right to use government land (now with slavery!)

[The Lone Alliance]

You know I realize that this does set a dangerous precedent.

If you get enough people with guns to disagree with something you can, for a short time at least, get others to back off.

I wonder how happy these nuts would be if people decided to rally a small militia around a house foreclosure or something else to hurt their precious 'job creators'?

[Llamalandia]

Well then feel free to enlighten me if you please.

Your been shown everything necessary to enlighten you.
Some people are just too stupid to learn.

Good for you resorting to petty name-calling now i see great way to support your argument.

[Occupied Deutschland]

You know I realize that this does set a dangerous precedent.

If you get enough people with guns to disagree with something you can, for a short time at least, get others to back off.

I wonder how happy these nuts would be if people decided to rally a small militia around a house foreclosure or something else to hurt their precious 'job creators'?

Depends on whether it's in response to the bank/job-creator surrounding the foreclosed property with proto-soldiers and snipers.

[The Lone Alliance]

Depends on whether it's in response to the bank/job-creator surrounding the foreclosed property with proto-soldiers and snipers.

So it'll depend on if they send a SWAT team to enforce the order.

[Tekania]

You know I realize that this does set a dangerous precedent.

If you get enough people with guns to disagree with something you can, for a short time at least, get others to back off.

I wonder how happy these nuts would be if people decided to rally a small militia around a house foreclosure or something else to hurt their precious 'job creators'?

Depends on whether it's in response to the bank/job-creator surrounding the foreclosed property with proto-soldiers and snipers.

Usually in a foreclosure a homeowner gets 90 days to vacate and then it results in forceful removal...... BLM didn't use forceful measures till 7578 days. As such compared to private-sector they seem to be EXTREMELY kind.

[The Serbian Empire]

Neither of them is right. That is because as long as the rancher pays taxes, he is paying for the land but not as much as the government wants from him. The government is in the wrong for lack of oversight on the use of their land.

[Tekania]

Neither of them is right. That is because as long as the rancher pays taxes, he is paying for the land but not as much as the government wants from him. The government is in the wrong for lack of oversight on the use of their land.

Lack of oversight? They've been exercising oversight on this since the Bundy's started buying grazing permits from the BLM in the mid-1950's. And "paying taxes" does not entitle to absolute and complete use of any public land..... many uses (especially commercial ones) require permits.

[The Serbian Empire]

Neither of them is right. That is because as long as the rancher pays taxes, he is paying for the land but not as much as the government wants from him. The government is in the wrong for lack of oversight on the use of their land.

Lack of oversight? They've been exercising oversight on this since the Bundy's started buying grazing permits from the BLM in the mid-1950's. And "paying taxes" does not entitle to absolute and complete use of any public land..... many uses (especially commercial ones) require permits.

The government was apparently blind to the Bundy scheme of not paying the fee. That's where the problem is. Lack of enforcement when it comes to the payment of land use fees.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Depends on whether it's in response to the bank/job-creator surrounding the foreclosed property with proto-soldiers and snipers.

Usually in a foreclosure a homeowner gets 90 days to vacate and then it results in forceful removal...... BLM didn't use forceful measures till 7578 days. As such compared to private-sector they seem to be EXTREMELY kind.

Call me when a bank uses snipers and proto-soldiers.

[Geilinor]

Usually in a foreclosure a homeowner gets 90 days to vacate and then it results in forceful removal...... BLM didn't use forceful measures till 7578 days. As such compared to private-sector they seem to be EXTREMELY kind.

Call me when a bank uses snipers and proto-soldiers.

They won't wait 20 years and they will do whatever they can to make you vacate. A foreclosure is nothing compared to the scale of this. This involves more land and hundreds of livestock.

[Tekania]

The government was apparently blind to the Bundy scheme of not paying the fee. That's where the problem is. Lack of enforcement when it comes to the payment of land use fees.

No, they were not. Bundy's last permit expired end of February 1993, mid -February 1993 BLM sent notice of pending need to renew. Again in June of 1993 BLM sent renewal form to Bundy for the new grazing season. When he still did not renew they began sending notices to cease grazing in July of 1993. After repeated notices BLM took issue to court and got a Judgement against Bundy in 1998 reslting in tresspass fees being imposed by the court starting end of November 1998, then returned to court again in 1999 modifying the trespass fees further after Bundy's failure to comply. Between 1999 and 2012 they made two plan attempted and removing cattle but were presented with threats and never implemnted. In 2012 and again 2013 they took mater to court again this time with a formal order for Bundy to remove cattle in 45 days and an court authorization for BLM to remove Cattle stil there at Bundy's expense.

Goverment was never blind to Bundy not paying this fee. You just never really informed yourself on this issue or read subsequent information and are speaking an opinion based on ignorance of the situation.

[Tekania]

Call me when a bank uses snipers and proto-soldiers.

They won't wait 20 years and they will do whatever they can to make you vacate. A foreclosure is nothing compared to the scale of this. This involves more land and hundreds of livestock.

As well as multiple cases of Bundy supporters making threats and intimidation at possible removal operations. The simple fact here is the BLM's operation makes perfect sense based upon the context of the situation.

[Sociobiology]

Usually in a foreclosure a homeowner gets 90 days to vacate and then it results in forceful removal...... BLM didn't use forceful measures till 7578 days. As such compared to private-sector they seem to be EXTREMELY kind.

Call me when a bank uses snipers and proto-soldiers.

call me when armed people try to occupy the bank, oh wait that has happened and the answers was police and snipers.

[Sociobiology]

Yes, in order to maintain consistent forage the BLM is authorized by federal law to regulate grazing on the public lands in their care, it is in fact their duty to do so. The amount he could graze could change to support forage growth if needed, however this did not prevent him from grazing within the regulated amount. As such to characterize that is "not being allowed to graze" is a falsehood (lie) as with permit he could in fact graze cattle there.

Who, is saying that he isn't allowed to graze. I never said that. He's not being allowed to graze as much as he wants/needs to that is the issue here. He's rightly hacked off here, because the feds didn't seem to have a problem not regulating in the past until well as I've said before turtles. Before all he had to do was pay the fees to use the land now, they have severely restricted his usage likely to the point of him no longer having a viable operation.

by which I can conclude you know nothing about the BLM or the change in the regulations.

as for not being able to graze as much as he wants tough shit, don't build your business model on exploiting government land.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Call me when a bank uses snipers and proto-soldiers.

call me when armed people try to occupy the bank, oh wait that has happened and the answers was police and snipers.

Actually the snipers and BLM ranger proto-soldiers were there prior to any militia.

In fact, photos of them is why militia went there in the first place.

[Tekania]

Call me when a bank uses snipers and proto-soldiers.

call me when armed people try to occupy the bank, oh wait that has happened and the answers was police and snipers.

Yes, keeping armed agents nearby when doing a removal operation that has been subject to threats of violence towards the BLM for years is obviously "wrong" for some reason.

[Sociobiology]

call me when armed people try to occupy the bank, oh wait that has happened and the answers was police and snipers.

Actually the snipers and BLM ranger proto-soldiers were there prior to any militia.

but not prior to armed resistance.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Actually the snipers and BLM ranger proto-soldiers were there prior to any militia.

but not prior to armed resistance.

Please do point me to the Bundy's armed resistance.

[Sociobiology]

call me when armed people try to occupy the bank, oh wait that has happened and the answers was police and snipers.

Yes, keeping armed agents nearby when doing a removal operation that has been subject to threats of violence towards the BLM for years is obviously "wrong" for some reason.

I think you are confused about what I am arguing, the land is the bank in this analogy.

[Salvageville]

He says it can be used for grazing

The government does not seem to be a problem in the past, and cut in turtles. Before you use a lot of positions, the industry is not limited to use, can not be maintained.

[Tekania]

call me when armed people try to occupy the bank, oh wait that has happened and the answers was police and snipers.

Actually the snipers and BLM ranger proto-soldiers were there prior to any militia.

In fact, photos of them is why militia went there in the first place.

The real fact is that in previous removal plans the BLM has been subject to threats of violence, of course they were there. Bundy and his supporters are violent bastards.

[Tekania]

Yes, keeping armed agents nearby when doing a removal operation that has been subject to threats of violence towards the BLM for years is obviously "wrong" for some reason.

I think you are confused about what I am arguing, the land is the bank in this analogy.

I was being facetious.

[Geilinor]

but not prior to armed resistance.

Please do point me to the Bundy's armed resistance.

Officers were allegedly attacked by the Bundy family and supporters. http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/10/us/nevada-rancher-rangers-cattle-showdown/?hpt=zite_zite3_featured

[Sociobiology]

but not prior to armed resistance.

Please do point me to the Bundy's armed resistance.

3 bombings of BLM offices
that alone would make me want to go armed.

You know I deal with the BLM all the time, they do their job well considering everything they have to do, and Bundy is just pissed because the government stopped subsidizing his cattle business, if he doesn't have enough land thats his problem, he should not have built a business that only works as long as it is sucking off the government tit.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Please do point me to the Bundy's armed resistance.

3 bombings of BLM offices
that alone would make me want to go armed.

And how recent were these bombings?
Because the only thing I can find that even REFERENCES them is a timeline of the BLM story that mentions them in passing, from the MID to LATE 90s.

Well fuck, on that outstanding logic all our soldiers in Japan better walk around in full combat kit.
Because you know. They bombed us.