Religions proselytizing is poison to society

[Aravea]

Plus there is a difference between being a slave and a voluntarily serving someone. We don't just do good works out of fear or out of a commandment but out of gratitude.

yeah but by binding yourself to the authority of a God you forsake any chance you had of actually becoming a God yourself...

You bind yourself to the will of society don't you? I don't think you understand that you are bound to someone or something just as much as I am.

[The Time Alliance]

Plus there is a difference between being a slave and a voluntarily serving someone. We don't just do good works out of fear or out of a commandment but out of gratitude.

yeah but by binding yourself to the authority of a God you forsake any chance you had of actually becoming a God yourself...

...You can't become a god..by any means.

[God Kefka]

so it seems inherently about restrictions on liberty then.

Myself. i would rather live for my own pleasure... life is much more fun that way I think.

Again you are free to choose but I find more happiness in knowing that I helped better someone else. Then again however there are branches of Christianity that don't require you to do anything other than believe in Christ and let you do whatever you wish. So either way your assertion is still wrong.

they all essentially require you to do stuff (like going to church, helping people, praying and stuff) just in a sneaky sort of way...

Instead of saying, you have to do X, Y, and Z to be saved... it goes like this: IF you are really saved, you should automatically WANT to do X, Y, and Z or stuff LIKE X, Y, and Z and so should naturally do them.

Now that is REALLY clever.

If you don't do those things, others (including You) will start to question you about whether or not you have REALLY accepted Jesus...

So the effect of a person truly subscribing to Christianity, is that he is still binding himself to do a large number of things (even though the rhetoric has been cleverly crafted to be more in line with the modern liberal rhetoric).

[God Kefka]

yeah but by binding yourself to the authority of a God you forsake any chance you had of actually becoming a God yourself...

You bind yourself to the will of society don't you? I don't think you understand that you are bound to someone or something just as much as I am.

I've never officially bound myself to society either. I obey the rules to survive but that's not making me bound indefinitely. And if I could, I would reshape all of society according to my individualistic views of Justice...

[The Time Alliance]

You bind yourself to the will of society don't you? I don't think you understand that you are bound to someone or something just as much as I am.

I've never officially bound myself to society either. I obey the rules to survive but that's not making me bound indefinitely. And if I could, I would reshape all of society according to my individualistic views of Justice...

So they can be bound to you? Such double standards.

[Aravea]

Again you are free to choose but I find more happiness in knowing that I helped better someone else. Then again however there are branches of Christianity that don't require you to do anything other than believe in Christ and let you do whatever you wish. So either way your assertion is still wrong.

they all essentially require you to do stuff (like going to church, helping people, praying and stuff) just in a sneaky sort of way...

Instead of saying, you have to do X, Y, and Z to be saved... it goes like this: IF you are really saved, you should automatically WANT to do X, Y, and Z or stuff LIKE X, Y, and Z and so should naturally do them.


Now that is REALLY clever.

If you don't do those things, others (including You) will start to question you about whether or not you have REALLY accepted Jesus...

So the effect of a person truly subscribing to Christianity, is that he is still binding himself to do a large number of things (even though the rhetoric has been cleverly crafted to be more in line with the modern liberal rhetoric).

Again you misinterpret Christian practices. Technically all we have to do is just believe and that's it end of story. What I do has no effect on whether or not I am really saved or not.

[God Kefka]

yeah but by binding yourself to the authority of a God you forsake any chance you had of actually becoming a God yourself...

...You can't become a god..by any means.

where's that written?

the trick of religion is that it discourages you from trying by promoting unconditional servitude. But if you are willing to explore all avenues, you can discover things ordinary mortals overlook...

[Basking Turtles]

The moment I kill your loved ones and tell you it's okay, it's for the good cause, you'll understand how utterly fucking retarded that argument is. Fortunately for you, though perhaps unfortunately for the people who have to listen to your inane rambling, I'm not going to do that.

I thought we were talking about proselytizing, not murder.

We were talking about proselytizing, until you wrote the post that I replied to.

But hey, I'm not going to discuss this with you. After all, you are confident in your "objective truth". You are one of those "admirable" people who are willing to fight for their beliefs. So I'm just wasting my time, because whatever I say, you've already decided that if it doesn't fit in your ideology, then it's wrong. You're not looking for the truth, you're just looking to further your own goals. Had you been born in Afghanistan, you'd have been one of the guys killing and mistreating people in the name of your god. People like you are the reason this world is far from paradise.

Congratulations, by the way. This is the first time someone on the internet has made me so upset that I have difficulty typing. If you're just trolling, feel free to say so anytime, it would be a huge relief.

[Aravea]

I've never officially bound myself to society either. I obey the rules to survive but that's not making me bound indefinitely. And if I could, I would reshape all of society according to my individualistic views of Justice...

So they can be bound to you? Such double standards.

So if you can become strong enough why not just break the rules?

[The Time Alliance]

they all essentially require you to do stuff (like going to church, helping people, praying and stuff) just in a sneaky sort of way...

Instead of saying, you have to do X, Y, and Z to be saved... it goes like this: IF you are really saved, you should automatically WANT to do X, Y, and Z or stuff LIKE X, Y, and Z and so should naturally do them.


Now that is REALLY clever.

If you don't do those things, others (including You) will start to question you about whether or not you have REALLY accepted Jesus...

So the effect of a person truly subscribing to Christianity, is that he is still binding himself to do a large number of things (even though the rhetoric has been cleverly crafted to be more in line with the modern liberal rhetoric).

Again you misinterpret Christian practices. Technically all we have to do is just believe and that's it end of story. What I do has no effect on whether or not I am really saved or not.

This is where Mormonism becomes different from all other's. We believe whilst he saved us we have to act still to gain the reward of his act.

[Aravea]

...You can't become a god..by any means.

where's that written?

the trick of religion is that it discourages you from trying by promoting unconditional servitude. But if you are willing to explore all avenues, you can discover things ordinary mortals overlook...

Talk about being way out there...

[The Time Alliance]

...You can't become a god..by any means.

where's that written?

the trick of religion is that it discourages you from trying by promoting unconditional servitude. But if you are willing to explore all avenues, you can discover things ordinary mortals overlook...

Because the Def. of God is.

1.supernatural being: one of a group of supernatural male beings in some religions, each of which is worshiped as the personification or controller of some aspect of the universe

[God Kefka]

they all essentially require you to do stuff (like going to church, helping people, praying and stuff) just in a sneaky sort of way...

Instead of saying, you have to do X, Y, and Z to be saved... it goes like this: IF you are really saved, you should automatically WANT to do X, Y, and Z or stuff LIKE X, Y, and Z and so should naturally do them.


Now that is REALLY clever.

If you don't do those things, others (including You) will start to question you about whether or not you have REALLY accepted Jesus...

So the effect of a person truly subscribing to Christianity, is that he is still binding himself to do a large number of things (even though the rhetoric has been cleverly crafted to be more in line with the modern liberal rhetoric).

Again you misinterpret Christian practices. Technically all we have to do is just believe and that's it end of story. What I do has no effect on whether or not I am really saved or not.

TECHNICALLY yes. Technically IF you are saved it's the end of the story. But the religion and others will tell you that IF you are really saved, you should WANT to do X, Y, and Z.

The net effect of that is that a person can't be comfortable with calling himself a true believer nor can he truly be comfortable with his certain salvation, UNLESS he sets out to do X, Y, and Z (ex prayer groups, church, volunteering etc).

So Christianity has a whole bunch of Must Dos too... it's just that they are hidden in the fine print. If you don't do those things (which the religion tells you you should automatically WANT to do even though it's not technically prescribed), you inevitably start to doubt your own salvation and your own status as a real Christian.

[Aravea]

...You can't become a god..by any means.

where's that written?

the trick of religion is that it discourages you from trying by promoting unconditional servitude. But if you are willing to explore all avenues, you can discover things ordinary mortals overlook...

It's written in our genetic code. Ultimately all of us(including You) are bound by our own mortality the laws of the universe.

[God Kefka]

Again you misinterpret Christian practices. Technically all we have to do is just believe and that's it end of story. What I do has no effect on whether or not I am really saved or not.

This is where Mormonism becomes different from all other's. We believe whilst he saved us we have to act still to gain the reward of his act.

The difference between the two is really marginal.

Model 1:
You need to do X, Y, and Z in addition to accepting Christ to be saved.

Model 2:
If you accept Christ you are saved. However, if you have really accepted Christ, you should automatically WANT to do stuff LIKE X, Y, and Z.

In practice, both models coerce you to do things you may not have wanted to do independently of the religion. It's just a question of whether the mechanism of coercion is hidden in the fine print or just stated up front. If a person is serious about his religion and his salvation, he can in practice never just follow Model 2 and NOT do X, Y, and Z because he would inevitably start to question his own salvation...

[Conscentia]

This reminds me of something I had read...

I read about an Eskimo hunter who asked the local missionary priest, 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' 'No,' said the priest, 'not if you did not know.' 'Then why,' asked the Eskimo earnestly, 'did you tell me?'
- Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, 1974

[God Kefka]

where's that written?

the trick of religion is that it discourages you from trying by promoting unconditional servitude. But if you are willing to explore all avenues, you can discover things ordinary mortals overlook...

It's written in our genetic code. Ultimately all of us(including You) are bound by our own mortality the laws of the universe.

the genetic code is not the end of the story though... that can be altered too through a variety of methods.

[God Kefka]

where's that written?

the trick of religion is that it discourages you from trying by promoting unconditional servitude. But if you are willing to explore all avenues, you can discover things ordinary mortals overlook...

Because the Def. of God is.

1.supernatural being: one of a group of supernatural male beings in some religions, each of which is worshiped as the personification or controller of some aspect of the universe

yeah so you would have to become supernatural yourself.

But if you keep imagining that one exists already and you surrender yourself to that system, it never leaves any room for you to try and become that supreme being yourself.

[Aravea]

Because the Def. of God is.

1.supernatural being: one of a group of supernatural male beings in some religions, each of which is worshiped as the personification or controller of some aspect of the universe

yeah so you would have to become supernatural yourself.

But if you keep imagining that one exists already and you surrender yourself to that system, it never leaves any room for you to try and become that supreme being yourself.

Because it violates not just ethics but the natural order and processes. You cannot escape your own mortality Kefka you just can;t. In other words you can't become God or suprenatural because you are a mere mortal destined to return to dust like the rest of us. There is no way to permanently escape that fate.

[Constantinopolis]

isn't Christianity inherently about slavery and restriction (declaring yourself an eternal servant of the Lord and being bound by conscience at least, to follow his book)?

Yes we are bound to our lord but we restrict our own happiness so that we may better serve our fellow man or at least that's how I was raised. Plus I would rather live a life dedicated to helping the less fortunate than live only for my own pleasure.

Yes. What Aravea said. The commonality between Christianity and left-wing politics is that they are both collectivist, and say that people should live together as brothers and sisters, in a society based as much as possible on sharing and solidarity.

Technically I don't think Mormonism is canon to Christianity...

its more like a really out there fanfic vs the original novel...

What? This isn't a TV show. Mormonism is a branch of Christianity. Christian is someone who believes Jesus died for our sins and was resurrected. We believe that. Thus Christians

The status of Mormonism within Christianity is disputed, because many churches define Christianity as belief in the Trinity. My church, for example, defines as Christians those people who have been baptized "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." And - correct me if I'm wrong - Mormonism is non-trinitarian.

But yeah, I have no idea what "being canon to Christianity" is supposed to mean. Every denomination thinks that it is right and the others are wrong, at least about a few things. And every denomination has some extremists who think that everyone who isn't of that denomination is going to hell, although we mostly just ignore those kinds of extremists like you'd ignore an embarrassing relative.

[God Kefka]

yeah so you would have to become supernatural yourself.

But if you keep imagining that one exists already and you surrender yourself to that system, it never leaves any room for you to try and become that supreme being yourself.

Because it violates not just ethics but the natural order and processes. You cannot escape your own mortality Kefka you just can;t. In other words you can't become God or suprenatural because you are a mere mortal destined to return to dust like the rest of us. There is no way to permanently escape that fate.

i'm not sure about that one...

but what I am sure about, is that if you keep calling something else God you will never become one yourself.

In the same way that if you keep calling someone else King you will never become King yourself...

the natural order exists to keep Man down, and it is the free Man's duty to overcome and reshape that order to heighten his own standing and status through any means necessarily. To do so is not only worthy of admiration but is ethical...

we have won wars against nature before. We've overcome tons of diseases, the threat of wild animals, the limits of our natural habitat... it is only a matter of time before we manage to overcome mortality too. The first person to achieve this may very well become a God...

[Aravea]

Because it violates not just ethics but the natural order and processes. You cannot escape your own mortality Kefka you just can;t. In other words you can't become God or suprenatural because you are a mere mortal destined to return to dust like the rest of us. There is no way to permanently escape that fate.

i'm not sure about that one...

but what I am sure about, is that if you keep calling something else God you will never become one yourself.

In the same way that if you keep calling someone else King you will never become King yourself...

So why do you want to be a God?

[The Time Alliance]

Look Khefa. I believe you have a warped reality of Mormonism...Christianity? No. But this specific branch yes.

Mormonism isn't slavery at all. You still have to act upon your beliefs, but we believe in our religion all men have free will to do whatever they wish. That includes Mormons being able to choose how they run their own lives even if it isn't in correspondence to all the laws and teachings. So long as you don't do anything bad like Murder, Rape or something like that you won't necessarily be going straight to hell. That's why we believe people not of our religion don't get sent straight to hell.

However your views on the rest of Christianity are pretty spot on.

[Aravea]

Because it violates not just ethics but the natural order and processes. You cannot escape your own mortality Kefka you just can;t. In other words you can't become God or suprenatural because you are a mere mortal destined to return to dust like the rest of us. There is no way to permanently escape that fate.

i'm not sure about that one...

but what I am sure about, is that if you keep calling something else God you will never become one yourself.

In the same way that if you keep calling someone else King you will never become King yourself...

the natural order exists to keep Man down, and it is the free Man's duty to overcome and reshape that order to heighten his own standing and status through any means necessarily. To do so is not only worthy of admiration but is ethical...

we have won wars against nature before. We've overcome tons of diseases, the threat of wild animals, the limits of our natural habitat... it is only a matter of time before we manage to overcome mortality too. The first person to achieve this may very well become a God...

Yes we have overcome diseases and wild animals but you cannot escape death. Even technology for how wonderful it is has its limits as it eventually degrades and needs to be discarded. Memento Mori Kefka, Memento Mori.

[God Kefka]

i'm not sure about that one...

but what I am sure about, is that if you keep calling something else God you will never become one yourself.

In the same way that if you keep calling someone else King you will never become King yourself...

So why do you want to be a God?

so that I can smite down all of my enemies, all of those who have taken advantage of my physical and social limitations to climb at my expense.

the world would become my canvas and I shall reshape it all in my image...