Geography and foreign intervention

[Magna Libero]

Hello!

So, apparently only one sixth of Americans know where Ukraine is on a map. This is according to a survey in which 2066 Americans participated. Some people thought that Ukraine was in Greenland, Australia, Chad, or even in the US. Older people(65+) knew where it was with a 14% probability. Fortunately, the staggering amount of 27% of those who were 18-24 knew, where Ukraine was on a map! So, this should indicate that there is some hope.

The shocking part of this news is that those, who did not know where Ukraine is were more likely to call for a military intervention.

So, what is your opinion? Should we ( or Americans, specifically, in this case) teach more geography in school?

This is shocking, I think. On the other hand, I'm better at maps than the average -- according to a test, hehehe. I think people should learn more about the basics of geography, for example in an Oprah show or something. Schools seem to be a little lazy to teach geography. I don't think it's that difficult to teach the essential basics, is it?
However, if we would go by an economic cost-efficiency analysis then teaching geography wouldn't be worth it. Politically speaking, we would have to teach geography, assuming that one wants the democracy to work.

Did I miss something that might feed the rage of our fellow mods? This is my first topic, so I might have missed something.
British sauce:
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-26943479

A review of the best commentary on and around the world...

Today's must-read

A recent survey conducted by three US college professors found that only one in six Americans could find Ukraine on a map of the world. The results are plotted in one shame-inducing graphic.

What's more disturbing is that the farther away from the actual location of Ukraine the survey participants guessed, the more likely they were to support US military intervention.

A few of the 2,066 respondents seem to think Ukraine is somewhere in the central US, which certainly would make an armed response easier. Alaska - Alaska! - is the target of nearly a dozen guesses.

Greenland and northern Canada are peppered with dots. Brazil. South Africa. A spot in the ocean south of New Zealand.

Is it too much to hope that some of the people surveyed were just messing with the pollsters?

Political independents performed best, with 29% picking correctly. Republicans (15%) and Democrats (14%) were equally dismal. At least there's hope for the future. Twenty-seven per cent of Americans between 18 and 24 correctly located Ukraine.

Dartmouth Prof Kyle Dropp, Harvard Prof Joshua D Kertzer and Princeton Prof Thomas Zeitzoff write in the Washington Post that their survey reveals a disturbing truth:

Even controlling for a series of demographic characteristics and participants' general foreign policy attitudes, we found that the less accurate our participants were, the more they wanted the US to use force, the greater the threat they saw Russia as posing to US interests, and the more they thought that using force would advance US national security interests; all of these effects are statistically significant at a 95% confidence level.

It's worth noting, however, that no matter how woefully misinformed Americans are about Ukraine's actual location, only 13% of the total survey wanted to intervene militarily.

Canada

Time for a US-Canadian merger - Russia and China have their sights set on Canada's "rich and poorly defended open spaces", writes syndicated columnist Froma Harrop. If the US wants to protect its northern neighbour, she says, there's an obvious solution: a merger.

Harrop talks with the National Post's Diane Francis, who calls for a US-Canadian union in her new book, Merger of the Century.

"A merged Canada and US would occupy more land than Russia or all of South America," Harrop writes. "It would become an energy and economic powerhouse less subject to foreign intrigue. And few countries would mess with either of us."

Kenya

Terrorism and human rights - Kenya needs to have a "serious debate" about how to respond to the violence that has plagued the nation for three decades, writes Ken Nyaundi in the Standard.

While steps need to be taken to maintain security, he says, there is a price to be paid in liberty and the possibility that some steps taken could be counterproductive: "When we descend into a frenzied over-reaction, we drive terrorists further underground, generate sympathy for them and make them heroes".

Russia

Is a Ukraine invasion coming? - BBC's Jonathan Marcus analyses the latest information on Russian troop movements along the Ukrainian border and comes to the conclusion that the Russian military has learned from mistakes made in the 2008 invasion of Georgia.

Marcus talks with several experts who predict that Russia is capable of extended combat operations in Ukraine if it chooses to undertake them.

Ireland

British reconciliation - As Irish President Michael D Higgins makes the first-ever state visit to the UK on Tuesday, former President Mary Robinson remembers how differently she was treated on a non-official visit during her term in 1991.

"Because of Northern Ireland, the British would not agree to call me 'president of Ireland'!" she writes.

Her trip, she says, was a "carefully orchestrated meeting at head-of-state level between two countries with a troubled past seeking, in a symbolic way, to begin reconciling".

BBC Monitoring quote of the day

Iran and the powers have started the third round of nuclear talks. Representatives from Russia, the US, Britain, France, China and Germany - headed by EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton - are meeting Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif in Vienna.

One Iranian daily feels Tehran deserves praise for initiating the new rounds of talks:

"It seems that despite problems and suspicions created by domestic and American hard-liners, Iran's initiative to resume diplomatic negotiations was not considered as a sign of defeat and surrender, and Iran put an end to the propaganda created by Israel and some regional countries and secured its peaceful rights in the best way possible. As a result, Iran's nuclear industry remained intact and the country can perform its regional and international role with full respect." - Seyyed Ali Khorram in Iran's E'temad.

Other sauce: http://www.politicalviolenceataglance.org/2014/04/08/geographical-ignorance-and-americans-views-on-ukraine/
Other sauce:http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/04/lets-invade-ukraine-soon-we-can-figure-out-where-it

A couple of weeks ago, a team of researchers asked Americans to locate Ukraine on a map. You'll be unsurprised to learn that most of them couldn't. But check this out:

Accuracy varies across demographic groups. In general, younger Americans tended to provide more accurate responses than their older counterparts: 27 percent of 18-24 year olds correctly identified Ukraine, compared with 14 percent of 65+ year-olds.

Say what? The idiot youngsters, the ones who are forever being mocked for not being able to locate France on a map, did better than their older, obviously better educated peers? How about that. Keep this in mind the next time you see one of those endless surveys bemoaning what geographic numbskulls the kids today are.

But that wasn't really the point of the survey. This was:

The further our respondents thought that Ukraine was from its actual location, the more they wanted the U.S. to intervene militarily. Even controlling for a series of demographic characteristics and participants’ general foreign policy attitudes, we found that the less accurate our participants were, the more they wanted the U.S. to use force, the greater the threat they saw Russia as posing to U.S. interests, and the more they thought that using force would advance U.S. national security interests; all of these effects are statistically significant at a 95 percent confidence level. Our results are clear, but also somewhat disconcerting: The less people know about where Ukraine is located on a map, the more they want the U.S. to intervene militarily.

Yep: folks who thought Ukraine was somewhere near Chad were more convinced that Russia's actions posed a threat to US interests. Chew on that for a while. Let's toss out some possible reasons for this:

Ignorant folks are more likely to be jingoistic supporters of military action.
If you think Ukraine is farther away from Russia than it is, it makes sense to assume that Russia is trying to project military power over a great distance and therefore poses a greater threat than a mere border incursion would.
Low-information respondents are more easily manipulated by rabble-rousers.
Ignorance of geography is a proxy for ignorance of both the capabilities of the US military and the costs and likely success of intervention.
This is just some weird statistical artifact and means nothing.
Or maybe there's something I haven't thought of.

[Ucropi]

I'm pretty sure the only reason (aside from setting up puppet governments to sell natural resources to american cheaply) that America is constantly at war is to help it's people learn geography.

[Keyboard Warriors]

Call me a cynic, but I think it's hardly surprising that a larger portion of the uneducated are calling for foreign intervention because it would take a critical analysis as opposed to pure patriotism to know why that's a bad idea.

[Neuhausen]

I think geography focuses on different things in USA then.
I live in Eastern Europe/Northern Europe (wherever Estonia actually belongs) and in school I had to learn almost every country in the world, biggest rivers and lakes, tallest mountains etc. Wasn't so hard. I think most schools in Europe do the same thing.

[Kiruri]

Shocker! Americans suck at geography I don't think this is anything new. Yes, obviously Americans need to pump up their social studies / history / geography curriculum

[Nervium]

Shocker! Americans suck at geography I don't think this is anything new. Yes, obviously Americans need to pump up their social studies / history / geography curriculum

... Did you just write socialist studies?

Typical Obama supporter...

Anyway, yes, apperently this is a serious problem in the US of A, but not an uncurable one.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

I don't think being able to pinpoint countries exactly is a really important skill.

[Nervium]

I don't think being able to pinpoint countries exactly is a really important skill.

Well, you thought wrong.

[Kiruri]

Shocker! Americans suck at geography I don't think this is anything new. Yes, obviously Americans need to pump up their social studies / history / geography curriculum

... Did you just write socialist studies?

Typical Obama supporter...

Anyway, yes, apperently this is a serious problem in the US of A, but not an uncurable one.

I agree. There's hope

I don't think being able to pinpoint countries exactly is a really important skill.

map skills are always important

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

I don't think being able to pinpoint countries exactly is a really important skill.

Well, you thought wrong.

Go on, use your words. Why?

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

... Did you just write socialist studies?

Typical Obama supporter...

Anyway, yes, apperently this is a serious problem in the US of A, but not an uncurable one.

I agree. There's hope

I don't think being able to pinpoint countries exactly is a really important skill.

map skills are always important

Not on the gross scale alluded to in the OP.

[Nervium]

Well, you thought wrong.

Go on, use your words. Why?

Basic knowledge, it helps you ahead in life. Also helps if you're having a discussion about a specific topic.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Go on, use your words. Why?

Basic knowledge, it helps you ahead in life. Also helps if you're having a discussion about a specific topic.

How?

[Alyakia]

Well, you thought wrong.

Go on, use your words. Why?

while there are few people that can pinpoint literally every country ever it demonstrates a very large lack of understanding of the world if you're struggling to find the places you invaded

can you seriously tell you'd take someone on the other side of the world who doesn't even know what an ireland looks like seriously if they started rattling their mouth?

[Nervium]

Basic knowledge, it helps you ahead in life. Also helps if you're having a discussion about a specific topic.

How?

Because if someone par example asks "What's your opinion on the situation in Somalia?" and you answer "That's that island of Australia right?" You already lost a part of the discussion.

[Libertarian California]

Call me a cynic, but I think it's hardly surprising that a larger portion of the uneducated are calling for foreign intervention because it would take a critical analysis as opposed to pure patriotism to know why that's a bad idea.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Go on, use your words. Why?

while there are few people that can pinpoint literally every country ever it demonstrates a very large lack of understanding of the world if you're struggling to find the places you invaded

can you seriously tell you'd take someone on the other side of the world who doesn't even know what an ireland looks like seriously if they started rattling their mouth?

Well obviously I whip out a map and ask them to pinpoint it to determine whether they're idiots....

Nah just kidding. If they understand the players involved and the factors involved their ability to point at a globe and shout "that one" really means fuck all.

[Senkaku]

One sixth?!


Jesus Christ. I had no idea my countrymen are so uneducated.

[Alyakia]

while there are few people that can pinpoint literally every country ever it demonstrates a very large lack of understanding of the world if you're struggling to find the places you invaded

can you seriously tell you'd take someone on the other side of the world who doesn't even know what an ireland looks like seriously if they started rattling their mouth?

Well obviously I whip out a map and ask them to pinpoint it to determine whether they're idiots....

Nah just kidding. If they understand the players involved and the factors involved their ability to point at a globe and shout "that one" really means fuck all.

have you considered that the people that are familiar with the players and factors probably know where the country actually is?

hmm, maybe the more uninformed a person is, they less likely they are to be able to...

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

How?

Because if someone par example asks "What's your opinion on the situation in Somalia?" and you answer "That's that island of Australia right?" You already lost a part of the discussion.

And if they say "oh that place in Africa bordered by x, y and z with the following political players and threats" but can't point to Africa on a pretty multicoloured picture?

[Alyakia]

Because if someone par example asks "What's your opinion on the situation in Somalia?" and you answer "That's that island of Australia right?" You already lost a part of the discussion.

And if they say "oh that place in Africa bordered by x, y and z with the following political players and threats" but can't point to Africa on a pretty multicoloured picture?

that is exceptionally unlikely

if they what countries border it, they probably know where it is!

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

Well obviously I whip out a map and ask them to pinpoint it to determine whether they're idiots....

Nah just kidding. If they understand the players involved and the factors involved their ability to point at a globe and shout "that one" really means fuck all.

have you considered that the people that are familiar with the players and factors probably know where the country actually is?

hmm, maybe the more uninformed a person is, they less likely they are to be able to...

Oh I totally have. I'm not of the opinion that not being able to pinpoint the country on a map is the important factor there. The other understanding actually matters.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

And if they say "oh that place in Africa bordered by x, y and z with the following political players and threats" but can't point to Africa on a pretty multicoloured picture?

that is exceptionally unlikely

if they what countries border it, they probably know where it is!

The likelihood really doesn't matter.

If you're wanting to scream " look how uninformed stupid Americans are " then show they are uninformed about the important factors don't just point to ignorance of frankly irrelevant factors and go " seeeeeee, seeeeeee. They didn't know Kazakhstan is biggest importer of potassium"

Heres the thing, they're trying to use lack of map pointing skills to demonstrate ignorance of a political situation without showing that connection exists. Its a twatty move.

[The United Colonies of Earth]

God bless the uninitiated idiots!

[Freedom Planita 2]

One:
Two:
Wow that really bad
LOL