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Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Organized States
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Founded: Apr 26, 2014
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Postby Organized States » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:08 pm

Doesn't this belong in the pre-existing megathread?
Thank God for OS!- Deian
"In the old days, the navigators used magic to make themselves strong, but now, nothing; they just pray. Before they leave and at sea, they pray. But I, I make myself strong by thinking—just by thinking! I make myself strong because I despise cowardice. Too many men are afraid of the sea. But I am a navigator."-Mau Piailug
"I regret that I have only one life to give to my island." -Ricardo Bordallo, 2nd Governor of Guam
"Both are voyages of exploration. Hōkūle‘a is in the past, Columbia is in the future." -Colonel Charles L. Veach, USAF, Astronaut and Navigation Enthusiast

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Lalaki
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Founded: May 11, 2014
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Postby Lalaki » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:09 pm

Push for peace talks. This is all we can do. This is a conflict between Ukraine and Russia. The EU/US can't force an ending.

I am in full support of Ukraine, however.
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Roski
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Postby Roski » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:09 pm

Ukraine should handle its own shit.

The Ukrainian Government openly challenged the Russian Federation, now its dealing with it.

Ukraine had its chance to join NATO.

Its too fucking late now.
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

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I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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Empire of Narnia
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Founded: Oct 18, 2011
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Postby Empire of Narnia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:09 pm

Let it happen. Ukraine ain't worth it.

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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:09 pm

Union of Kiwi Socialists wrote:
Blazedtown wrote:Outlaw Russian forever.


'My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes.' - Ronald Reagan.


He said Russian

Good reading skills bro


Organized States wrote:Doesn't this belong in the pre-existing megathread?


Yep. I already reported it :D
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Lalaki
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Founded: May 11, 2014
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Postby Lalaki » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:10 pm

Pandeeria wrote:Condemn Russia, cut off non-essential trade, sanctions, and stuff.


Remember that Russia can do the same thing to us. It won't be as drastic, but things such as out space program will be affected.
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United Marxist Nations
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:11 pm

I would prefer nothing; the Ukrainian government is actively trying to ban opposition groups.
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Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:11 pm

Lalaki wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:Condemn Russia, cut off non-essential trade, sanctions, and stuff.


Remember that Russia can do the same thing to us. It won't be as drastic, but things such as out space program will be affected.


It's already been affected. But don't worry, Rogozin offered quality advice, he said that America can utilized the trampoline to send astronauts into space.
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
Stonk Power! (North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia
I used pronouns until the mods made using wrong pronouns warnable, so I use names instead; if you see malice there, that's entirely on you, and if pronouns are no longer warnable, I'll go back to using them

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Pxoria
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Founded: Sep 30, 2012
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Postby Pxoria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:11 pm

We should do what Bush did in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia and threaten to send in US troops. Problem is Putin thinks Obama is so weak that even if Obama threatened, Putin could give two shits less about it.

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Catahecassa
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Founded: Mar 23, 2014
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Postby Catahecassa » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:12 pm

I'm on Russia's side with the whole annexation of Crimea. But mabey military action would result in conflict, considering their nuclear threat.
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Pandeeria
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Founded: Jun 12, 2011
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Postby Pandeeria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:12 pm

Lalaki wrote:
Pandeeria wrote:Condemn Russia, cut off non-essential trade, sanctions, and stuff.


Remember that Russia can do the same thing to us. It won't be as drastic, but things such as out space program will be affected.


We can make up the damage with more funding and finding other suppliers and such.

However, Crimea is now Russian. And there's nothing truly meaningful we can do.
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In capitalism, you pretty much have a 50/50 chance of being rich or poor. In communism, it's 1/99. What makes people think they have the luck/skill to become the 1% if they can't even succeed in a 50/50 society???

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Roski
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Postby Roski » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:12 pm

Pxoria wrote:We should do what Bush did in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia and threaten to send in US troops. Problem is Putin thinks Obama is so weak that even if Obama threatened, Putin could give two shits less about it.


Well I mean Poland, Lithuania, and Lativa are being held on their chains by Germany, France, and England.

Otherwise we might already be at war with Russia.
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

Follow my Vex Robotics team on instagram! @3921a_vex

I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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United Marxist Nations
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Founded: Dec 02, 2011
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Postby United Marxist Nations » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:12 pm

Pxoria wrote:We should do what Bush did in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia and threaten to send in US troops. Problem is Putin thinks Obama is so weak that even if Obama threatened, Putin could give two shits less about it.

Putin didn't invade Georgia, Georgia invaded South Ossetia, which had gained independence in 1992(?).
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.

Eastern Orthodox Catechumen. Religious communitarian with Sorelian, Marxist, and Traditionalist influences. Sympathies toward Sunni Islam. All flags/avatars are chosen for aesthetic or humor purposes only
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.

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District XIV
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Founded: Dec 01, 2012
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Postby District XIV » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:12 pm

Empire of Narnia wrote:Let it happen. Ukraine ain't worth it.

The territorial integrity of another country which you, personally, could aren't care about "ain't worth it"?

:palm:

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Roski
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Founded: Nov 18, 2013
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Postby Roski » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:14 pm

District XIV wrote:
Empire of Narnia wrote:Let it happen. Ukraine ain't worth it.

The territorial integrity of another country which you, personally, could aren't care about "ain't worth it"?

:palm:


Well, you have an all out World War Three over a country that when taking in a Western-Friendly government said "Fuck you" to the EU and NATO... its their own damn fault they pointed a gun at the bear.
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

Follow my Vex Robotics team on instagram! @3921a_vex

I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:14 pm

Pxoria wrote:We should do what Bush did in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia and threaten to send in US troops. Problem is Putin thinks Obama is so weak that even if Obama threatened, Putin could give two shits less about it.


*Whispers* that didn't work really well. Saakashvili fled the capital, the Russians raided Georgia's military bases to their heart's content, and Tbilisi was spared an assault, since Russians didn't want Georgian civilian casualties. Putin gave two shits about Bush. There are some places that you can't really threaten Russians. Learn those. And don't do it.
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
Stonk Power! (North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia
I used pronouns until the mods made using wrong pronouns warnable, so I use names instead; if you see malice there, that's entirely on you, and if pronouns are no longer warnable, I'll go back to using them

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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:14 pm

Galloism wrote:Is assassinate Putin and replace him with a CIA puppet on the table?

Shit, this isn't the 60s. We ran out of poison cigars years ago.
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Empire of Narnia
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Founded: Oct 18, 2011
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Postby Empire of Narnia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:15 pm

District XIV wrote:
Empire of Narnia wrote:Let it happen. Ukraine ain't worth it.

The territorial integrity of another country which you, personally, could aren't care about "ain't worth it"?

:palm:

Not worth nuclear war for a country already in Russia's sphere of influence. It's not like they are invading the USA, or a NATO country.

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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:15 pm

Roski wrote:
Pxoria wrote:We should do what Bush did in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia and threaten to send in US troops. Problem is Putin thinks Obama is so weak that even if Obama threatened, Putin could give two shits less about it.


Well I mean Poland, Lithuania, and Lativa are being held on their chains by Germany, France, and England.

Otherwise we might already be at war with Russia.


A very short war. Although Estonia bringing up the reserves could take a while :P
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
Stonk Power! (North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia
I used pronouns until the mods made using wrong pronouns warnable, so I use names instead; if you see malice there, that's entirely on you, and if pronouns are no longer warnable, I'll go back to using them

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Organized States
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Posts: 8426
Founded: Apr 26, 2014
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Postby Organized States » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:15 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Galloism wrote:Is assassinate Putin and replace him with a CIA puppet on the table?

Shit, this isn't the 60s. We ran out of poison cigars years ago.

We could always use those Cigar box bombs.
Thank God for OS!- Deian
"In the old days, the navigators used magic to make themselves strong, but now, nothing; they just pray. Before they leave and at sea, they pray. But I, I make myself strong by thinking—just by thinking! I make myself strong because I despise cowardice. Too many men are afraid of the sea. But I am a navigator."-Mau Piailug
"I regret that I have only one life to give to my island." -Ricardo Bordallo, 2nd Governor of Guam
"Both are voyages of exploration. Hōkūle‘a is in the past, Columbia is in the future." -Colonel Charles L. Veach, USAF, Astronaut and Navigation Enthusiast

Pacific Islander-American (proud member of the 0.5%), Officer to be

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Shofercia
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Founded: Feb 22, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Shofercia » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:15 pm

Roski wrote:
District XIV wrote:The territorial integrity of another country which you, personally, could aren't care about "ain't worth it"?

:palm:


Well, you have an all out World War Three over a country that when taking in a Western-Friendly government said "Fuck you" to the EU and NATO... its their own damn fault they pointed a gun at the bear.


And fired.
Come, learn about Russian Culture! Bring Vodka and Ushanka. Interested in Slavic Culture? Fill this out.
Stonk Power! (North) Kosovo is (a de facto part of) Serbia and Crimea is (a de facto part of) Russia
I used pronouns until the mods made using wrong pronouns warnable, so I use names instead; if you see malice there, that's entirely on you, and if pronouns are no longer warnable, I'll go back to using them

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Lalaki
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Founded: May 11, 2014
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Postby Lalaki » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:16 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:I would prefer nothing; the Ukrainian government is actively trying to ban opposition groups.


Which is wrong. But really, Russia isn't exactly politically free. I side with the EU over Russia, simply because they have a better track record with human rights/political freedom. Not a perfect record, but a better record.
Born again free market capitalist.

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Pxoria
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Posts: 140
Founded: Sep 30, 2012
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Postby Pxoria » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:16 pm

United Marxist Nations wrote:
Pxoria wrote:We should do what Bush did in 2008 when Putin invaded Georgia and threaten to send in US troops. Problem is Putin thinks Obama is so weak that even if Obama threatened, Putin could give two shits less about it.

Putin didn't invade Georgia, Georgia invaded South Ossetia, which had gained independence in 1992(?).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1043236/Georgia-overrun-Russian-troops-scale-ground-invasion-begins.html
You sure about that?

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Conserative Morality
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Postby Conserative Morality » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:16 pm

My current mindset, full of rage against this (And Russia's previous) intrusions upon national sovereignty and international law, screams for a pointless, bloody war.

The more rational side of me says more sanctions because pointless bloody wars are pointless and bloody.
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Roski
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Founded: Nov 18, 2013
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Postby Roski » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:16 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Roski wrote:
Well I mean Poland, Lithuania, and Lativa are being held on their chains by Germany, France, and England.

Otherwise we might already be at war with Russia.


A very short war. Although Estonia bringing up the reserves could take a while :P


Both sides would probably back off very quickly if NATO and Russia went at it.

"Is it worth killing 7 billion people for this? Nope. Buh bye."
I'm some 17 year old psuedo-libertarian who leans to the left in social terms, is fiercly right economically, and centrist in foriegn policy. Unapologetically Pro-American, Pro-NATO, even if we do fuck up (a lot). If you can find real sources that disagree with me I will change my opinion. Call me IHOP cause I'm always flipping.

Follow my Vex Robotics team on instagram! @3921a_vex

I am the Federal Republic of Roski. I have a population slightly over 256 million with a GDP of 13.92-14.25 trillion. My gross domestic product increases each year between .4%-.1.4%. I have a military with 4.58 million total people, with 1.58 million of those active. My defense spending is 598.5 billion, or 4.2% of my Gross Domestic Product.

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