Ukraine Crisis II: Electric Boogaloo

[Gravlen]

How dare are they! By Jingo, they must follow the example of Gen Philip Breedlove, Nato's commander in Europe, who, without using (or, probably, even seeing) any photos, argued convincingly last week that they must be "Russian forces".

It was indeed convincing arguments.

[Lemanrussland]

I don't know, I didn't hear or read anything like that. Shof would properly know though.

Or anyone with the ability to use Google?

Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was fined $8,400 on Tuesday for slandering a lawmaker. His second trial starts Thursday, and prosecutors who previously secured his house arrest are widely expected to ask for jail for him pending trial, with Tuesday’s verdict making him a recidivist. If there’s a guilty verdict at that trial, he could get a prison term.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2014/04/22/navalny-conviction-russia-chilling-message/uLZmYA8G5gi7iSei0YmsAI/story.html

Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny was convicted of libel on Tuesday in a ruling his lawyer said could potentially lead to the jailing of the anti-corruption blogger who is one of President Vladimir Putin's most prominent critics.

The verdict added to the pressure on Navalny, who is serving a suspended five-year sentence on a theft conviction he says was orchestrated by the Kremlin and faces trial on a separate theft charge later this week.

"This is clearly just another attempt to chase me into a corner," Navalny, who has been under house arrest since March, said as he left court.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/22/us-russia-navalny-idUSBREA3L0UH20140422

No no no. He's talking specifically about whether he was detained or not, not about whether he was fined or due to appear in court tomorrow.

I said "he was jailed', and he said "no he was fined". I was using jailed in the more formal sense of the word, that you are detained prior to trial (it may range from a few hours to a few days), he thought I meant he was sentenced and then put in prison (jail and prison are often used interchangeably, when that is not really correct, but whatever).

AFAIK, he was taken from his house, taken to jail, then brought before the court and fined, then sent back to his house. He's going to go back tomorrow, and because of Tuesday's decision, he may be going back to prison for his suspended theft sentence.

tl;dr This is a case of misunderstanding, poor choice of words, and pedantry, he knows Alexi got fined and might be going to prison soon.

This is the last post I am making on this particular topic, I swear.

[Lemanrussland]

In actually relevant news:

Ukraine: Right Sector To Form Special Battalion In East
Ukraine's ultra-nationalist Right Sector is forming a special battalion in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine, Interfax-Ukraine reported April 23.
Apr 23, 2014 | 10:35 GMT

This is after they told OSCE that they were disbanding the "military wing" of the organization and becoming purely political. Seems like that was a bunch of bullshit.

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/117912

Right Sector is more of a loose movement than a centralized organization, so the contradictions may be out of their control. However, Ukraine's government really needs to follow through and disarm them as well, especially if they are considering forming a "Donbass special battalion". It makes the Ukrainian government look like idiots and gives ammo to the Russian arguments.

[Lyttenburgh]

How dare are they! By Jingo, they must follow the example of Gen Philip Breedlove, Nato's commander in Europe, who, without using (or, probably, even seeing) any photos, argued convincingly last week that they must be "Russian forces".

It was indeed convincing arguments.

Following good general's fine logic and analysis we can safely accuse Gimli son of Gloin of being a pro-russian separatist.

Tru story 100%

[United Marxist Nations]

It was indeed convincing arguments.

Following good general's fine logic and analysis we can safely accuse Gimli son of Gloin of being a pro-russian separatist.

Tru story 100%

Does that mean that Kiev is Barad-Dur?

[Imperial Tevinter]

In actually relevant news:

Ukraine: Right Sector To Form Special Battalion In East
Ukraine's ultra-nationalist Right Sector is forming a special battalion in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine, Interfax-Ukraine reported April 23.
Apr 23, 2014 | 10:35 GMT

This is after they told OSCE that they were disbanding the "military wing" of the organization and becoming purely political. Seems like that was a bunch of bullshit.

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/117912

Right Sector is more of a loose movement than a centralized organization, so the contradictions may be out of their control. However, Ukraine's government really needs to follow through and disarm them as well, especially if they are considering forming a "Donbass special battalion". It makes the Ukrainian government look like idiots and gives ammo to the Russian arguments.

Right Sector needs to be crushed, the "National Guard" made of illegal militias needs to be dismantled and the Maidan encampment must be dispersed.

[Rio Cana]

On the news it seems the US has really become very interested in Ukraine. Especially, in trying to get Ukraine off Russian gas and become an economically viable nation. If Ukraine did not border Russia would they still do it. There are nations in the Americas which is the neighborhood the US belongs too but which they could care less about helping. Then they complain when China steps into the economic vacuum in helping those small American nations.

They showed on tv news, US troops being sent to Poland and the three Baltic states. Wonder if those nations will be paying for it. So Ukraine gets US money and the Baltic States get US troops paid by US money. While Detroit and even our island which is in economic difficulties gets nothing. Now what is wrong with that picture. And where are the Rich Germans, French and UK. or are they not in Europe any longer.

[United Marxist Nations]

On the news it seems the US has really become very interested in Ukraine. Especially, in trying to get Ukraine off Russian gas and become an economically viable nation. If Ukraine did not border Russia would they still do it. There are nations in the Americas which is the neighborhood the US belongs too but which they could care less about helping. Then they complain when China steps into the economic vacuum in helping those small American nations.

They showed on tv news, US troops being sent to Poland and the three Baltic states. Wonder if those nations will be paying for it. So Ukraine gets US money and the Baltic States get US troops paid by US money. While Detroit and even our island which is in economic difficulties gets nothing. Now what is wrong with that picture. And where are the Rich Germans, French and UK. or are they not in Europe any longer.

In response to the last sentence, the French and Royal Navies towed the three into the mid-Atlantic a few years ago, it was pretty badass.

[Lemanrussland]

On the news it seems the US has really become very interested in Ukraine. Especially, in trying to get Ukraine off Russian gas and become an economically viable nation. If Ukraine did not border Russia would they still do it. There are nations in the Americas which is the neighborhood the US belongs too but which they could care less about helping. Then they complain when China steps into the economic vacuum in helping those small American nations.

They showed on tv news, US troops being sent to Poland and the three Baltic states. Wonder if those nations will be paying for it. So Ukraine gets US money and the Baltic States get US troops paid by US money. While Detroit and even our island which is in economic difficulties gets nothing. Now what is wrong with that picture. And where are the Rich Germans, French and UK. or are they not in Europe any longer.

The US has born the brunt of common defense responsibilities since the 1990s, really. This has recently changed with the French and British (particularly the French) getting very involved in interventions in Africa and the Middle East.

I hope we see some joint NATO battlegroups from our allies come forward into Poland and the Baltic states. I also hope they also boost defense spending a little bit, or at least make it a bigger priority in the future.

In actually relevant news:

Ukraine: Right Sector To Form Special Battalion In East
Ukraine's ultra-nationalist Right Sector is forming a special battalion in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine, Interfax-Ukraine reported April 23.
Apr 23, 2014 | 10:35 GMT

This is after they told OSCE that they were disbanding the "military wing" of the organization and becoming purely political. Seems like that was a bunch of bullshit.

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/117912

Right Sector is more of a loose movement than a centralized organization, so the contradictions may be out of their control. However, Ukraine's government really needs to follow through and disarm them as well, especially if they are considering forming a "Donbass special battalion". It makes the Ukrainian government look like idiots and gives ammo to the Russian arguments.

Right Sector needs to be crushed, the "National Guard" made of illegal militias needs to be dismantled and the Maidan encampment must be dispersed.

Probably not going to happen, now that the cease fire and diplomatic agreement has essentially fallen through. Pro-Russia militants have refused to disarm, the Ukrainian government is not taking serious action to disarm the various (if overblown, at least in my view) far right militias. We are back at square one.

[Lemanrussland]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27124453

Russia is threatening war some more.

The US has called on Moscow to ask pro-Russian gunmen to lay down their weapons and leave public buildings. It has also urged Russia to tone down its aggressive rhetoric or face further sanctions.

"If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in full accordance with international law," Mr Lavrov said.

Mr Lavrov also reiterated accusations that Kiev had failed to fulfil commitments laid out in the 17 April Geneva accord designed to end the crisis.

The Russian foreign ministry statement accused Kiev and the West of distorting the agreement, which called for illegal armed groups to be disarmed.

The ministry said the West insisted only on the need for pro-Russian groups to put down their weapons.

I don't understand why the Ukrainians don't take some action against the right wing militias to claim the moral highground. If they did do that, Russia would really have no leg to stand on.

[United Marxist Nations]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27124453

Russia is threatening war some more.

The US has called on Moscow to ask pro-Russian gunmen to lay down their weapons and leave public buildings. It has also urged Russia to tone down its aggressive rhetoric or face further sanctions.

"If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in full accordance with international law," Mr Lavrov said.

Mr Lavrov also reiterated accusations that Kiev had failed to fulfil commitments laid out in the 17 April Geneva accord designed to end the crisis.

The Russian foreign ministry statement accused Kiev and the West of distorting the agreement, which called for illegal armed groups to be disarmed.

The ministry said the West insisted only on the need for pro-Russian groups to put down their weapons.

I don't understand why the Ukrainians don't take some action against the right wing militias to claim the moral highground. If they did do that, Russia would really have no leg to stand on.

Because they don't mind the rightist militias.

[Yanalia]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27124453

Russia is threatening war some more.

"If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in full accordance with international law," Mr Lavrov said.

The US has called on Moscow to ask pro-Russian gunmen to lay down their weapons and leave public buildings. It has also urged Russia to tone down its aggressive rhetoric or face further sanctions.

Mr Lavrov also reiterated accusations that Kiev had failed to fulfil commitments laid out in the 17 April Geneva accord designed to end the crisis.

The Russian foreign ministry statement accused Kiev and the West of distorting the agreement, which called for illegal armed groups to be disarmed.

The ministry said the West insisted only on the need for pro-Russian groups to put down their weapons.

I don't understand why the Ukrainians don't take some action against the right wing militias to claim the moral highground. If they did do that, Russia would really have no leg to stand on.

Perhaps Kiev needs those guys' support because they can't afford to have a protracted conflict with their supporters when they have enough on their plate with their enemies.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

I don't understand why the Ukrainians don't take some action against the right wing militias to claim the moral highground. If they did do that, Russia would really have no leg to stand on.

Ukraine's government has various far right persons in different government potions and were helped put in power by them. Moving against an important part of your power base wouldn't be a smart move.

[Equalium]

Honestly, Russia needs to leave Crimea, and Eastern Ukraine. Russia is basically trying to start WWIII by deliberately starting these terrorist operations in Donetsk and Eastern Ukarine. Donetsk Republic should be condemned as a terrorist organization and a UN mission should be sent to Donetsk. US, Georgia and Belgium should get involved.

[Lemanrussland]

I don't understand why the Ukrainians don't take some action against the right wing militias to claim the moral highground. If they did do that, Russia would really have no leg to stand on.

Ukraine's government has various far right persons in different government potions and were helped put in power by them. Moving against an important part of your power base wouldn't be a smart move.

Well yes. Svoboda is part of the government.

Conflating Svoboda and Right Sector (as if they are interchangeable) is not necessarily accurate though. That's like conflating the Party of Regions with the Pro-Russian militants.

They even agreed to do something about Right Sector earlier this month: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26841732

[Occupied Deutschland]

Simon Ostrovsky (VICE news correspondent) is, it seems, a Pravy Sektor agent according to the 'people's mayor' of Slovyansk.

Translate:

ak said Mayor People Sloviansk Vyacheslav Ponomarev, Ostrovsky currently under arrest . Militia assured that contained alien " under normal conditions, is supplied with power ", reports "Interfax" .

Vyacheslav Ponomarev , "This journalist (he has dual citizenship in Israel and the United States ) is really self-defense forces detained . According to our data , it is the informant "right sector . '"

Earlier, some media reported that Slovyansk was abducted by U.S. Internet Publishing Vice News Simon Ostrovsky .

Later , the OSCE representative Dunja Mijatovic , referring to these reports , demanded the release of foreigners who , with her words , forcibly keep unknown in uniform.

Meanwhile, in the Slovyansk , despite the start of a military operation today , remains calm . Work all utilities, open trade institutions , children went to school , on the streets is not shootings .

Vyacheslav Ponomarev : "It was an extension from the raisins in our side to ten BTR with the military, which we tracked . Passed five kilometers , turned , and then dug . And this so-called " anti-terrorist operation " until over. "

More on NTV.Ru : http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/923739/ # ixzz2zjTRNA5B

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27124453

Russia is threatening war some more.

The US has called on Moscow to ask pro-Russian gunmen to lay down their weapons and leave public buildings. It has also urged Russia to tone down its aggressive rhetoric or face further sanctions.

"If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in full accordance with international law," Mr Lavrov said.

Mr Lavrov also reiterated accusations that Kiev had failed to fulfil commitments laid out in the 17 April Geneva accord designed to end the crisis.

The Russian foreign ministry statement accused Kiev and the West of distorting the agreement, which called for illegal armed groups to be disarmed.

The ministry said the West insisted only on the need for pro-Russian groups to put down their weapons.

I don't understand why the Ukrainians don't take some action against the right wing militias to claim the moral highground. If they did do that, Russia would really have no leg to stand on.

Because (shocker) they are in cahoots with said militia.

[Rio Cana]

On the news it seems the US has really become very interested in Ukraine. Especially, in trying to get Ukraine off Russian gas and become an economically viable nation. If Ukraine did not border Russia would they still do it. There are nations in the Americas which is the neighborhood the US belongs too but which they could care less about helping. Then they complain when China steps into the economic vacuum in helping those small American nations.

They showed on tv news, US troops being sent to Poland and the three Baltic states. Wonder if those nations will be paying for it. So Ukraine gets US money and the Baltic States get US troops paid by US money. While Detroit and even our island which is in economic difficulties gets nothing. Now what is wrong with that picture. And where are the Rich Germans, French and UK. or are they not in Europe any longer.

The US has born the brunt of common defense responsibilities since the 1990s, really. This has recently changed with the French and British (particularly the French) getting very involved in interventions in Africa and the Middle East.

I hope we see some joint NATO battlegroups from our allies come forward into Poland and the Baltic states. I also hope they also boost defense spending a little bit, or at least make it a bigger priority in the future.

Right Sector needs to be crushed, the "National Guard" made of illegal militias needs to be dismantled and the Maidan encampment must be dispersed.

Probably not going to happen, now that the cease fire and diplomatic agreement has essentially fallen through. Pro-Russia militants have refused to disarm, the Ukrainian government is not taking serious action to disarm the various (if overblown, at least in my view) far right militias. We are back at square one.

The French have gotten involved but in the former territories they controlled. And you got to admit that the rebels in Mali, Chad and those other places in French Speaking Africa have no real chance against the French forces. The French would steamroll them over. Russia is something completely different. There the French would have to fight it all out with an adversary who is equal to them.

I really think Nigeria is much more a problem then this Russia-Ukraine fiasco. Those rebels in Northern Nigeria are becoming a very big problem. And if it spreads then no gas pipe-lines from Africa via a Northern route to Europe. Has for the Russia-Ukraine problem, diplomacy can really solve it but only if all sides really give it a chance and do it in earnest.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Honestly, Russia needs to leave Crimea, and Eastern Ukraine. Russia is basically trying to start WWIII by deliberately starting these terrorist operations in Donetsk and Eastern Ukarine. Donetsk Republic should be condemned as a terrorist organization and a UN mission should be sent to Donetsk. US, Georgia and Belgium should get involved.

First off no one is going to fight world war three over Ukraine. Second Russia is not leaving Crimea, something every nation (even Ukraine) seems to understand. I'm curious if you would of called the western Ukrainians who pulled off the same type of stunts as those in the East as "terrorists". With one even declaring independence from Kiev when it was under the control of the old government still.

[Lemanrussland]

Because (shocker) they are in cahoots with said militia.

"Everyone in the Ukrainian government is a Nazi."

Yes, that's the Russian hypothesis.

Realistically, I wonder what the internal executive negotiations are like between the right wing elements of the government and the other parts of the government. The far right doesn't run the show, they are a minority in the current coalition.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Simon Ostrovsky (VICE news correspondent) is, it seems, a Pravy Sektor agent according to the 'people's mayor' of Slovyansk.

Translate:

ak said Mayor People Sloviansk Vyacheslav Ponomarev, Ostrovsky currently under arrest . Militia assured that contained alien " under normal conditions, is supplied with power ", reports "Interfax" .

Vyacheslav Ponomarev , "This journalist (he has dual citizenship in Israel and the United States ) is really self-defense forces detained . According to our data , it is the informant "right sector . '"

Earlier, some media reported that Slovyansk was abducted by U.S. Internet Publishing Vice News Simon Ostrovsky .

Later , the OSCE representative Dunja Mijatovic , referring to these reports , demanded the release of foreigners who , with her words , forcibly keep unknown in uniform.

Meanwhile, in the Slovyansk , despite the start of a military operation today , remains calm . Work all utilities, open trade institutions , children went to school , on the streets is not shootings .

Vyacheslav Ponomarev : "It was an extension from the raisins in our side to ten BTR with the military, which we tracked . Passed five kilometers , turned , and then dug . And this so-called " anti-terrorist operation " until over. "

More on NTV.Ru : http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/923739/ # ixzz2zjTRNA5B

I've seen most of his dispatches. That is a very surprising allegation.

[Lemanrussland]

Simon Ostrovsky (VICE news correspondent) is, it seems, a Pravy Sektor agent according to the 'people's mayor' of Slovyansk.

Translate:

ak said Mayor People Sloviansk Vyacheslav Ponomarev, Ostrovsky currently under arrest . Militia assured that contained alien " under normal conditions, is supplied with power ", reports "Interfax" .

Vyacheslav Ponomarev , "This journalist (he has dual citizenship in Israel and the United States ) is really self-defense forces detained . According to our data , it is the informant "right sector . '"

Earlier, some media reported that Slovyansk was abducted by U.S. Internet Publishing Vice News Simon Ostrovsky .

Later , the OSCE representative Dunja Mijatovic , referring to these reports , demanded the release of foreigners who , with her words , forcibly keep unknown in uniform.

Meanwhile, in the Slovyansk , despite the start of a military operation today , remains calm . Work all utilities, open trade institutions , children went to school , on the streets is not shootings .

Vyacheslav Ponomarev : "It was an extension from the raisins in our side to ten BTR with the military, which we tracked . Passed five kilometers , turned , and then dug . And this so-called " anti-terrorist operation " until over. "

More on NTV.Ru : http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/923739/ # ixzz2zjTRNA5B

"According to our data, he is an informant of the right sector."

Interesting. No proof, just "according to our data."

Hopefully they don't torture him and force him to make some bullshit confession, like other extremist groups have done to Westerners in the past.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

...
Conflating Svoboda and Right Sector (as if they are interchangeable) is not necessarily accurate though. That's like conflating the Party of Regions with the Pro-Russian militants.
...

I didn't do that.

[Lemanrussland]

...
Conflating Svoboda and Right Sector (as if they are interchangeable) is not necessarily accurate though. That's like conflating the Party of Regions with the Pro-Russian militants.
...

I didn't do that.

Svoboda is the one with the government positions, ministries and so on though. The Right Sector was never given any seats in the cabinet or anything like that.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Just heard on the radio Donetsk has been retaken by pro-Kyiv forces? Looking for a source...

Edit: Can't seem to find anything.