"England" or "United Kingdom"

[Nadkor]

What on earth are you even on about.

What are you confused about? Fionnuala here takes some kind of offense at the use of the term "British Isles" and so I am requesting a replacement that A. Actually describes the same thing and not just parts of it and B. Isn't just a compilation of the various components therein.

Oh, I understand perfectly what Fionnuala's saying. I have no idea what you're blathering on about.

[Imperializt Russia]

Actually, you're wrong. Her title is Queen of the United Kingdom, and other Commonwealth Realms.

Also, you used thus too many times.

first off, you got that from a wikipedia article, so good job gathering info from reputable sources. second off she's also known as Defender of the Faith and Supreme Governor of the Church of England, but their is no faith to guard-or if there is I doubt she's going to mount saddle and ride off to battle and do so, and there is no Church to govern, in splintered off into many different divinities. As well there is no commonwealth, the recognized boarders of the U.K include that of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, and if you ask the U.N, it doesn't even include the last two I listed, on top of that-every American president in existence, including Obama, has called here the Queen of England, even David Cameron-the Prime Minister of Great Britain, calls her that!

She's Defender of the Faith because the Queen is the head of the Church of England.

Which is a church... that is governed.

Are you even British?

[Celritannia]

I just refer to them as not from Yorkshire

Yes

[Forsakia]

The English people should have the right to autonomy, as well as their own devolved parliament, and succession from the Queen of the United Kingdom, being foisted with that particular union.

Maybe we should.
We probably do, somewhere, buried within our convoluted legal system.

There's a reason no-one seriously made an effort on acting on it.

They were going to do it on a regional level, but the North East (I think) voted against it in the first referendum so the idea got dropped.

[Tagmatium]

Split off from the Ukrainian crisis thread to avoid a derail



England doesn't have a seat on the UN Security Council.

Perhaps you mean the United Kingdom?

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

Well, the UK is more correct and also has the benefit of not pissing off the Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish.

Good job we won't change things because it's more convenient for a group of people too lazy or ignorant to be correct.

[Imperializt Russia]

Split off from the Ukrainian crisis thread to avoid a derail



England doesn't have a seat on the UN Security Council.

Perhaps you mean the United Kingdom?

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

That's probably because Japan doesn't have the same kind of differences that have existed in Britain.

We have four distinct cultures, each of which with a different language and plenty of history shared and separate.
England especially, with its colossal influences from the Romans, Vikings, other Nords and Germanic peoples and especially the Norman and Saxon invasions. The early history of England arguably separated it even further from the other British peoples.

Seriously, you might as well have asked why Europe, Africa, Asia or South America aren't culturally and ethnically monolithic.

[Imperializt Russia]

Maybe we should.
We probably do, somewhere, buried within our convoluted legal system.

There's a reason no-one seriously made an effort on acting on it.

They were going to do it on a regional level, but the North East (I think) voted against it in the first referendum so the idea got dropped.

Good to know the people where I come from know what's up then, aye?

[Great Britain and Oceania]

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

That's probably because Japan doesn't have the same kind of differences that have existed in Britain.

We have four distinct cultures, each of which with a different language and plenty of history shared and separate.
England especially, with its colossal influences from the Romans, Vikings, other Nords and Germanic peoples and especially the Norman and Saxon invasions. The early history of England arguably separated it even further from the other British peoples.

Quoted for truth.

[The Archregimancy]

Except it isn't.

"Britain" - or the Welsh form 'Prydain' - long predates the English, true; it's first attested in written form by the Greek writer Pytheas of Massalia in the 4th century BC.

But it's not derived from the name of the islands as a whole, but rather means something roughly along the lines of "land of the Britons/Pritani" (precise etymology disputed). This is why, after various late Classical / early medieval migrations, we have a Great Britain (the island of the same name) and a Little Britain (not a comedy programme, but rather Brittany).

The crucial clue that the name has absolutely nothing to do with the Irish, though, is that the original form begins with a "P". Anyone with even a passing familiarity with the Celtic languages of Britain and Ireland will recognise why any relation to Irish (or Scots) Gaelic is impossible, and why the word must have a Common Brittonic origin from what's now Great Britain, with no real connection to Ireland.

Except, of course, that St. Patrick was Welsh.

Except that Ptolemy referred to Ireland as "little Britain" (mikra Brettania) in ~147 AD apparently.

Ptolemy referred to Ireland as "Ἰουερνία" in his Geographia, which seems to be etymologically related to "Eire"; Tacitus called it "Hibernia"; Pytheas of Massilia - the same person who first referred to a form of "Britain" in writing - called it "Ἰέρνη". I'm not sure whatever source you're using is accurate.

Do you have a better term that doesn't imply some kind of "us and them" thing by the way?

Not really, alas. Nothing that doesn't sound really forced and awkward, anyway. In academic writing I've even been forced to use "Britain, Ireland, and associated islands".

[Person012345]

What are you confused about? Fionnuala here takes some kind of offense at the use of the term "British Isles" and so I am requesting a replacement that A. Actually describes the same thing and not just parts of it and B. Isn't just a compilation of the various components therein.

Oh, I understand perfectly what Fionnuala's saying. I have no idea what you're blathering on about.

I am requesting a replacement that A. Actually describes the same thing and not just parts of it and B. Isn't just a compilation of the various components therein.

I didn't think this was too difficult. I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer.

[Person012345]

Except that Ptolemy referred to Ireland as "little Britain" (mikra Brettania) in ~147 AD apparently.

Ptolemy referred to Ireland as "Ἰουερνία" in his Geographia, which seems to be etymologically related to "Eire"; Tacitus called it "Hibernia"; Pytheas of Massilia - the same person who first referred to a form of "Britain" in writing - called it "Ἰέρνη". I'm not sure whatever source you're using is accurate.

Apparently it was in Almagest, Geographia came later.

[God Kefka]

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

That's probably because Japan doesn't have the same kind of differences that have existed in Britain.

We have four distinct cultures, each of which with a different language and plenty of history shared and separate.
England especially, with its colossal influences from the Romans, Vikings, other Nords and Germanic peoples and especially the Norman and Saxon invasions. The early history of England arguably separated it even further from the other British peoples.

yeah but it's a bad thing...

the more ''cultures'' there are in a given nation, the less united it is, the more you have certain groups demanding special privileges and special advantages, and the more chances it could escalate to fracturing and separation.

I hope the UK doesn't lose half of its territory on the British Isles the same way it lost most of its glorious empire...

[God Kefka]

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

Well, the UK is more correct and also has the benefit of not pissing off the Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish.

Good job we won't change things because it's more convenient for a group of people too lazy or ignorant to be correct.

yeah but the UK sounds like a lame rip off of the US...

just saying...

[Great Britain and Oceania]

Well, the UK is more correct and also has the benefit of not pissing off the Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish.

Good job we won't change things because it's more convenient for a group of people too lazy or ignorant to be correct.

yeah but the UK sounds like a lame rip off of the US...

just saying...

Personally, I think UK sounds great.

[Tagmatium]

Well, the UK is more correct and also has the benefit of not pissing off the Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish.

Good job we won't change things because it's more convenient for a group of people too lazy or ignorant to be correct.

yeah but the UK sounds like a lame rip off of the US...

just saying...

Considering when the Act of Union happened, it's could be the other way around...

Likely, it's just a coincidence.

[Alyakia]

Split off from the Ukrainian crisis thread to avoid a derail



England doesn't have a seat on the UN Security Council.

Perhaps you mean the United Kingdom?

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

china has several special administrative zones for their various ethnicities. you don't know shit about china.

[Rio Cana]

Like it or not Inglaterra is the main economic and military force holding together the United Kingdom. The UK. is Inglaterra .

[Alyakia]

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

That's probably because Japan doesn't have the same kind of differences that have existed in Britain.

We have four distinct cultures, each of which with a different language and plenty of history shared and separate.
England especially, with its colossal influences from the Romans, Vikings, other Nords and Germanic peoples and especially the Norman and Saxon invasions. The early history of England arguably separated it even further from the other British peoples.

Seriously, you might as well have asked why Europe, Africa, Asia or South America aren't culturally and ethnically monolithic.

there are/were groups like the ainu but guess what happened to them and their language lol

Like it or not Inglaterra is the main economic and military force holding together the United Kingdom. The UK. is Inglaterra .

Like it or not texifornia is the main economic and military force holding together the United Sattes. The US. is texifornia.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well, the UK is more correct and also has the benefit of not pissing off the Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish.

Good job we won't change things because it's more convenient for a group of people too lazy or ignorant to be correct.

yeah but the UK sounds like a lame rip off of the US...

just saying...

...
kay

The 'united kingdom' of Great Britain was formed in 1707, with the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" being formed an officially named in 1800 by the way, birthing the Union Flag.

[Tagmatium]

yeah but the UK sounds like a lame rip off of the US...

just saying...

...
kay

The 'united kingdom' of Great Britain was formed in 1707, with the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" being formed an officially named in 1800 by the way, birthing the Union Flag.

A time machine was used, as we all know that the US is the only original nation.

[Alyakia]

yeah but the UK sounds like a lame rip off of the US...

just saying...

...
kay

The 'united kingdom' of Great Britain was formed in 1707, with the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" being formed an officially named in 1800 by the way, birthing the Union Flag.

i like how you put 'united kingdom' in quotes because you know full well there was no 'united' in the kingdom of great britain

[Asilian]

i can't believe i caused this, lol-didnt know this was a topic to debate...

[Person012345]

England sounds better to tell you the truth than ''United Kingdom''...

England is crisp and clear. Also, I think the term should be used more often, if you use it often enough maybe the Welsh, Irish and the Scots will start considering themselves English too. Then we could preempt the possibility of them dismembering the union by separating...

Seriously, you're all on one tiny and small fucking island. Seriously, Japan's much bigger and it has no problem considering everyone on the island Japanese without giving formal recognition to further divisions. Same for China etc...

I don't like giving official recognition to ethnic minorities, at BEST it leads to demanding special privileges and representation (that other unnamed groups don't get), at worst it could lead to separation and treason...

I think it usually inevitably escalates to treason and separation. Which is why I also oppose giving natives (''Aboroginal'' and ''Indian'' title) special recognition in the USA and Canada...

GOD BLESS ENGLAND!

china has several special administrative zones for their various ethnicities. you don't know shit about china.

I'm willing to bet he is not that well informed of the internal politics of many countries outside his own. Or indeed even within his own.

[Celritannia]

yeah but the UK sounds like a lame rip off of the US...

just saying...

I wonder where the British East Empire Company flag went, oh I see it, wait, why does it have stars?

[Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 2f]

No, that's not correct. She is independently the Queen of each realm, the Queen of England, the Queen of Scots, and the Queen of Northern Ireland.

This is something I love about NSG - people coming in, telling other people they're wrong, and then, with absolute certainty that they're right, being wrong themselves.

Its...just like real life!