Camels in Genesis not historically accurate?

[Serocia]

Yeah because adding camels to Genesis is clearly an agendum.

Or a sure sign that it had been altered.

Assuming everything in their report is true, I would say it's a mistranslation.

[Serocia]

It's no use. He is determined not to see any logical connection he does not desire to see.

We are not discussing God's omnipotence. If this is difficult for you and your cohorts to understand, maybe you should reconsider thinking about theology.

[Neutraligon]

What is the point of this?

And if everything in the holy bible is true, then there is a contradiction of terms, just like i stated. Similarly there is a contradiction from the fact that god himself has made mistakes in the bible, like the flood.

Oh, that's great. But, oh wait, we're not discussing that. We're discussing whether or not a command from God would be necessarily moral. I'm sorry.

I am attacking the idea of a perfect god. If god is indeed perfect then everything he has done is also perfect and thus moral. however even within the torah and bible itself, god is not a perfect being. Since god is not a perfect being, as shown by the contradictions, tha claims that he is the perfect moral actor also do not make sense.

[The Fascist American Empire]

Maybe it just means that Abraham lived a few hundred years later than we presumed…

[Serocia]

What is the point of this?


Oh, that's great. But, oh wait, we're not discussing that. We're discussing whether or not a command from God would be necessarily moral. I'm sorry.

I am attacking the idea of a perfect god. If god is indeed perfect then everything he has done is also perfect and thus moral. however even within the torah and bible itself, god is not a perfect being. Since god is not a perfect being, as shown by the contradictions, tha claims that he is the perfect moral actor also do not make sense.

We're not discussing whether or not God is perfect. Why? Because this particular scenario is under the assumption that God is perfect because it says so in the Holy Bible. So if you wanna go do that, go right ahead, but it's not a part of this discussion.

And, yes, in the Holy Bible God is perfect. It says God is perfect in Psalm 18:30, Matthew 5:48 and probably elsewhere. So you could argue that God isn't, but it says rather explicitly more than once that God is.

[Neutraligon]

I am attacking the idea of a perfect god. If god is indeed perfect then everything he has done is also perfect and thus moral. however even within the torah and bible itself, god is not a perfect being. Since god is not a perfect being, as shown by the contradictions, tha claims that he is the perfect moral actor also do not make sense.

We're not discussing whether or not God is perfect. Why? Because this particular scenario is under the assumption that God is perfect because it says so in the Holy Bible. So if you wanna go do that, go right ahead, but it's not a part of this discussion.

And, yes, in the Holy Bible God is perfect. It says God is perfect in Psalm 18:30, Matthew 5:48 and probably elsewhere. So you could argue that God isn't, but it says rather explicitly more than once that God is.

The claim was god is a perfect moral actor no matter what because god is perfect this can be stated because we are assuming everything in the torah is true, including the parts that directly contradict each other. Therein lies the problem. If everything in the torah is true, then something is wrong as there are parts that are directly contradictory. So then, how can everything in the torah/bible be true if there are direct contradictions of each other. More so, even within the torah/bible there are contradictions about the morality of god. If god is the perfect moral actor, and everything in the bible is true, then how can god both order the murder of entire villages and at the same time say people should not murder. One cannot have both, which means either god is wrong and there are places where murder is OK(but god is of course perfect, so that is not possible), or god ordered the murder of entire villages despite murder being immoral (in which case god is not the perfect moral actor). Either way the claim of a perfect god and everything in the bible/torah being true cannot hold as the two contradict each other.

[Seangoli]

Or a sure sign that it had been altered.

Assuming everything in their report is true, I would say it's a mistranslation.

Eh... part that, and part just mid-identification by early authors and scribes. People like to think the bible was written whole-sale in one go, but frankly the truth is much, much different. What Christian's consider as the old testament didn't become canonized until sometime between the 4th and 1st century B.C. Prior to this, there were countless traditions, both oral and written, that were used by various rabinical groups. Most of which don't appear anywhere withing scripture. They were told, retold, written, re-written, copied, proliferated, and transcribed numerous times. It's much the same thing as the game "Telephone", only compounded over a millenia or so. And finally, a bunch of rabbis got together and decided which of these now far-removed from original source material writings would be included.

It gets even more complicated towards the formation and rise of Christianity, leading to the Council of Nicaea, put it through a millenia and a half of European political intrigue with copious amounts of alterations for political purposes, and the advent and rise of fundamentalist Christianity in the early 1900's (Which is a funny thing, as they can be the most revisionist sort). Finally top it off with translating it into unrelated languages ad-infinitum.

So really, the Bible is the world's longest running game of Telephone. Hence why these things happen.

[Neoconstantius]

Inconsequential.

[Blasveck]

While it is probably inconsequential, it does bring into question how the book purported to be the Word of God himself can get something like simple dates wrong.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Not surprising. Aren't some of the stories supposed to be set before the invention of written language?

[Geilinor]

Got any proof?

Unless they test every camel fossil in the world they cant prove how old the oldest camel is. By their logic if they tested a human corpse from the 50's they could say that humans did not exist in the 40's.

We make scientific judgments based on the information we have or can reasonably obtain.

[Benuty]

What?

10 commandments, thou shalt not murder. Yet god has killed the entire planet save a boat load of people an 2 of each type of animal (male and female). He has ordered the killing of populations as the Jews escaped to the promise land. He killed the first born son of every Egyptian, no matter the age. Yet you are claiming since he is perfect, his order are moral. So, either as per the 10, murder is immoral, or as per his actions it is moral. It cannot be both moral and immoral.

1) Depends on whether or not people believe in flooding the planet on a 21st century scale. The recognized known world wasn't that big on map when people think about it. So a flood of the world wouldn't probably be as devastating thus no need for heavy incest of the human caretakers of the ark.
2) Not exactly sure what you are referring to however often the leaders of the people rather than God committed/ordered the slaughter of the people. Many important figures weren't exactly saintly (many were downright barbaric).
3) Hardly, the Egyptians killed their own children (first born)in their own ignorance (feeding them food from fungal infested supplies isn't necessarily bright. One could say it was somewhat of a mercy that an Angel of the lord took them away (whether or not you believe the story of the plagues is another matter).

[Benuty]

Inconsequential.

Probably.

[Sun Wukong]

Inconsequential.

Probably.

Admittedly, of those parts of Genesis which are questionable, this seems like an odd choice to get hung up on.

[Frisivisia]

Inconsequential.

How so?

[The Two Jerseys]

Next they're going to tell us that Methuselah didn't live to be 900 years old.

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

Confused as to how this is significant. Camels have just as much place in Genesis as talking snakes and world-destroying floods. If you're going to make stuff up you might as well not skimp out on the little things.

[Benuty]

Next they're going to tell us that Methuselah didn't live to be 900 years old.

It may be a confusion of 969 months...which would make the guy almost 80 years old.

[Sun Wukong]

Next they're going to tell us that Methuselah didn't live to be 900 years old.

It may be a confusion of 969 months...which would make the guy almost 80 years old.

Far more likely it's meant to one-up the Babylonians. Whose heros all live to outrageous ages.

[Geilinor]

Next they're going to tell us that Methuselah didn't live to be 900 years old.

It may be a confusion of 969 months...which would make the guy almost 80 years old.

How does months get mistranslated to "years"?

[The Two Jerseys]

Next they're going to tell us that Methuselah didn't live to be 900 years old.

It may be a confusion of 969 months...which would make the guy almost 80 years old.

Now that I can believe.

You know, if it's just a case of someone writing "years" instead of "months", this whole camel thing may be a non-issue...

[Benuty]

It may be a confusion of 969 months...which would make the guy almost 80 years old.

How does months get mistranslated to "years"?

Well the English language isn't exactly wholesome when it comes to translating literature. It probably happened as an accident and somehow stuck rather than being noticed by a scholar extremely fluent in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek.

Of-course this isn't the first time a major biblical mistranslation has occurred and screwed things over.

[Benuty]

It may be a confusion of 969 months...which would make the guy almost 80 years old.

Far more likely it's meant to one-up the Babylonians. Whose heros all live to outrageous ages.

Well that whole story of Samson using the jawbone of a jackass to kill 1000 people may have been such an attempt.

[Cetacea]

It may be a confusion of 969 months...which would make the guy almost 80 years old.

How does months get mistranslated to "years"?

don't know ancient Hebrew but lots of languages have no specific word for year, many apply the same word to season with the gloss "a reoccuring period of time". I do know the word Yom used in Genesis can mean Day (yes those 7 days) as well as "time span" and indeed Year.

Translation error is a big thing and has led to wars,

[Sun Wukong]

Far more likely it's meant to one-up the Babylonians. Whose heros all live to outrageous ages.

Well that whole story of Samson using the jawbone of a jackass to kill 1000 people may have been such an attempt.

It's a good thing Chuck Norris wasn't around back then, or we'd never have heard the end of it.