Is Parody a valid substantive means of political commentary?

[United Marxist Nations]

Cohen is as amusing as a whoopee cushion.

Parody is for juveniles. It may be amusing in itself, as farce, but as politics it is worthless.

Watch The Great Dictator, and try saying that again.

[Avenio]

That's not really the point of Borat, though. It's supposed to be ignorant and stereotypical - he created the character of Borat and his Khazakhstan as a distorted reflection of how people in the West might see it. The entire premise of the movie is to put normal people in contact with walking, talking offensive charicatures and see how the distortions inherent in their own culture emerge.

A point that also needs to be made is that parodies don't, in and of themselves, need to be 'funny' - there are a lot of satirical parodies throughout history that aren't funny at all, but are horrifying and apalling. Swift's A Modest Proposal is a prime example - it's mocking the hand-wringing but ultimately inhumane and patronizing concern that the middle class of England had for Ireland's poor.

Must the parodist use caution, or simply respect that some non-zero percentage (perhaps double digit, even) of people will just never get it, and instead take that freedom of accepting being hated possibly by elements of both sides and turn it into fearless work?
Or is that just some shit a drunk performance artist told me after she game me a handy in the kitchen cove at an otherwise shitty pseudo-counter culture party the other night?

Ehh, I don't think so, but it is something that the parodist needs to figure out about what they want out of their work. Do they want it to be a mainstream, almost didactic sort of parody, like The Colbert Report, or do they want it to be a more personal, less widely-appealing parody like Brazil? Or somewhere in between? Both are just as good examples of the genre, but both have very different aims and means.

[Shofercia]

Parody is valid, but what Sacha Baron Cohen does is bullshit. He takes ignorant, (and unrealistic,) stereotypes, and makes money off of perpetuating them. For instance, he never filmed in Kazakhstan, knows nothing about Kazakh culture, and yet, displays the ignorant stereotype proudly, like a cunt who'll suck a dick for money. Anything to earn millions. He's not "quite brilliant". He does what some politicians do, takes an ignorant script and provide a barely watchable delivery.

That's not really the point of Borat, though. It's supposed to be ignorant and stereotypical - he created the character of Borat and his Khazakhstan as a distorted reflection of how people in the West might see it. The entire premise of the movie is to put normal people in contact with walking, talking offensive charicatures and see how the distortions inherent in their own culture emerge.

A point that also needs to be made is that parodies don't, in and of themselves, need to be 'funny' - there are a lot of satirical parodies throughout history that aren't funny at all, but are horrifying and apalling. Swift's A Modest Proposal is a prime example - it's mocking the hand-wringing but ultimately inhumane and patronizing attitude that the middle class of England had for Ireland's poor.

Let's not kid ourselves, it's a money maker. If he wanted to demonstrate ignorance, he'd do what the Chasers did - make up a country. BTW, Chasers are awesome, thanks for that one Aussies

I didn't even think about that when I made that post.

*gets angry at purposeful use and mocking of Soviet satellite sterotypes*

*thinks greedy Jew jokes are hilarious*

I'm laughing at my silliness of missing that when I made that post. It's called laughing at self, politicians should give it a try. I don't actually think that "hurr durr" greedy Jews jokes are funny. I thought that was obvious from the context, but, apparently it wasn't.

[DrakoLand]

Parody is valid, but what Sacha Baron Cohen does is bullshit. He takes ignorant, (and unrealistic,) stereotypes, and makes money off of perpetuating them. For instance, he never filmed in Kazakhstan, knows nothing about Kazakh culture, and yet, displays the ignorant stereotype proudly, like a cunt who'll suck a dick for money. Anything to earn millions. He's not "quite brilliant". He does what some politicians do, takes an ignorant script and provide a barely watchable delivery.

Now, contrast that with Tina Fey's parody of Sara Palin. All Fey did was change a few moves. That's it. And it was brilliant and funny. But before doing said parody, it was obvious that Fey studied Palin's speeches, studied her behavior, used her own script against her, etc. SNL is a hit or miss, but at least they try, well, they usually do, so those are entertaining. South Park's parodies are occasionally funny.

So it varies, but I'm not watching Cohen, or any of his ilk, since the only thing that they care about, is money.

Tina Fey? I thought it was Lisa Ann.

[Shofercia]

Parody is valid, but what Sacha Baron Cohen does is bullshit. He takes ignorant, (and unrealistic,) stereotypes, and makes money off of perpetuating them. For instance, he never filmed in Kazakhstan, knows nothing about Kazakh culture, and yet, displays the ignorant stereotype proudly, like a cunt who'll suck a dick for money. Anything to earn millions. He's not "quite brilliant". He does what some politicians do, takes an ignorant script and provide a barely watchable delivery.

Now, contrast that with Tina Fey's parody of Sara Palin. All Fey did was change a few moves. That's it. And it was brilliant and funny. But before doing said parody, it was obvious that Fey studied Palin's speeches, studied her behavior, used her own script against her, etc. SNL is a hit or miss, but at least they try, well, they usually do, so those are entertaining. South Park's parodies are occasionally funny.

So it varies, but I'm not watching Cohen, or any of his ilk, since the only thing that they care about, is money.

Tina Fey? I thought it was Lisa Ann.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/2 ... 29956.html

[DrakoLand]

Tina Fey? I thought it was Lisa Ann.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/2 ... 29956.html

I'd post a link to, but I can't afford an other ban.

[Frisivisia]

That's not really the point of Borat, though. It's supposed to be ignorant and stereotypical - he created the character of Borat and his Khazakhstan as a distorted reflection of how people in the West might see it. The entire premise of the movie is to put normal people in contact with walking, talking offensive charicatures and see how the distortions inherent in their own culture emerge.

A point that also needs to be made is that parodies don't, in and of themselves, need to be 'funny' - there are a lot of satirical parodies throughout history that aren't funny at all, but are horrifying and apalling. Swift's A Modest Proposal is a prime example - it's mocking the hand-wringing but ultimately inhumane and patronizing attitude that the middle class of England had for Ireland's poor.

Let's not kid ourselves, it's a money maker. If he wanted to demonstrate ignorance, he'd do what the Chasers did - make up a country. BTW, Chasers are awesome, thanks for that one Aussies

*gets angry at purposeful use and mocking of Soviet satellite sterotypes*

*thinks greedy Jew jokes are hilarious*

I'm laughing at my silliness of missing that when I made that post. It's called laughing at self, politicians should give it a try. I don't actually think that "hurr durr" greedy Jews jokes are funny. I thought that was obvious from the context, but, apparently it wasn't.

Expressing outrage and calling Sacha Baron Cohen a "cunt who'll suck dick for money" over him pointing out how stupid stereotyping Kazakhs is and then refusing to give the same consideration to "lul gerdy jews" is a serious case of selective sensitivity and makes you look like an ass.

[Shofercia]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/2 ... 29956.html

I'd post a link to, but I can't afford an other ban.

The mods are charging players for bans

Can I buy in bulk, and ban some people?

On a more serious note, there's the TG option.

[Avenio]

Let's not kid ourselves, it's a money maker. If he wanted to demonstrate ignorance, he'd do what the Chasers did - make up a country. BTW, Chasers are awesome, thanks for that one Aussies

Then he couldn't have roped nearly as many people, like several Representatives and a Supreme Court judge into it. People might get suspicious if he came up to them claiming to be from Wallawallistan, but Khazakstan is something most people wouldn't question as existing - and it's just obscure enough that people would accept just about anything Borat does as being just part of his backwards post-Soviet culture, despite that culture not existing at all.

To that end, it's not just about demonstrating ignorance, it's about demonstrating the cognitive dissonance that comes with it - like the way people in the film just smile and go along with Borat saying horrible things about the Roma and Jews, covering up their offense in deference to a culture which never existed.

[DrakoLand]

I'd post a link to, but I can't afford an other ban.

The mods are charging players for bans

Can I buy in bulk, and ban some people?

On a more serious note, there's the TG option.

IT IS A PORN PARODY!
Good job ruining the joke Ruskie. Vodka ain't half as good in the states, huh?

[Shofercia]

Let's not kid ourselves, it's a money maker. If he wanted to demonstrate ignorance, he'd do what the Chasers did - make up a country. BTW, Chasers are awesome, thanks for that one Aussies




I'm laughing at my silliness of missing that when I made that post. It's called laughing at self, politicians should give it a try. I don't actually think that "hurr durr" greedy Jews jokes are funny. I thought that was obvious from the context, but, apparently it wasn't.

Expressing outrage and calling Sacha Baron Cohen a "cunt who'll suck dick for money" over him pointing out how stupid stereotyping Kazakhs is and then refusing to give the same consideration to "lul gerdy jews" is a serious case of selective sensitivity and makes you look like an ass.

He made an entire movie... I wrote a single line on an online forum. Do you fail to see how one might pay more attention to an entire movie, than a single line on a forum, Frisivisia? If someone wrote a one liner about Kazakhstan, and then admitted that it was unintentional and laughed at himself, I wouldn't make a federal case out of that too. How the fuck you even get a "serious case of selective sensitivity" from that, is, quite frankly beyond me, unless you live in a place where a one liner on a forum requires the same attention span of making an entire movie. If so, I'd encourage you to return to reality.

[The Tundra]

if you want to have a really really good example of a parody, look the movie Airplane. its chock full of everything that a smart parody needs.

it is a valid substantive means for political commentary, just that people don't really understand parody anymore.

[DrakoLand]

Shof, my main complaint about your post is that you didn't like the movie. It had some hillarious momments (the sequel at least)

-Oh my God I'm so sorry.....
-Is, is something wrong with the baby?
-Yes.. it is a girl. Bring the trashcan

[Nervium]

Yes.

[DrakoLand]

Anyway, I don't like parody like the one made by George Carlin. He can be funny sometimes but he is using humour to push a political agenda on serious matters, and when it is given to you in such a way, it is hard to actually sit down and think if you actually agree with him.

Also, "The man from earth" was a horrible parody. A parody of the 7th art that is

[Especially Dirty Hippies]

Let's not kid ourselves, it's a money maker. If he wanted to demonstrate ignorance, he'd do what the Chasers did - make up a country. BTW, Chasers are awesome, thanks for that one Aussies

Then he couldn't have roped nearly as many people, like several Representatives and a Supreme Court judge into it. People might get suspicious if he came up to them claiming to be from Wallawallistan, but Khazakstan is something most people wouldn't question as existing - and it's just obscure enough that people would accept just about anything Borat does as being just part of his backwards post-Soviet culture, despite that culture not existing at all.

To that end, it's not just about demonstrating ignorance, it's about demonstrating the cognitive dissonance that comes with it - like the way people in the film just smile and go along with Borat saying horrible things about the Roma and Jews, covering up their offense in deference to a culture which never existed.

Is it going to stop us from being friends if I think child cannibalism in Ireland was funny the way Swift described, just not the conditions that he was illuminating?

[Shofercia]

Let's not kid ourselves, it's a money maker. If he wanted to demonstrate ignorance, he'd do what the Chasers did - make up a country. BTW, Chasers are awesome, thanks for that one Aussies

Then he couldn't have roped nearly as many people, like several Representatives and a Supreme Court judge into it. People might get suspicious if he came up to them claiming to be from Wallawallistan, but Khazakstan is something most people wouldn't question as existing - and it's just obscure enough that people would accept just about anything Borat does as being just part of his backwards post-Soviet culture, despite that culture not existing at all.

To that end, it's not just about demonstrating ignorance, it's about demonstrating the cognitive dissonance that comes with it - like the way people in the film just smile and go along with Borat saying horrible things about the Roma and Jews, covering up their offense in deference to a culture which never existed.

If people are actually roped by Borat's shtick on Kazakhstan, they don't jack shit about it, and don't even know if it's a real country or not. He doesn't have to make the name obviously fault, he could use a fake name, like Droogistan, and rope people in. The other thing is that some people will see that crap, and go "this is what Kazakhstan is like!" whereas it's not. I don't think that someone should be making parodies of something that they're completely clueless about.

[DrakoLand]

Yes.

*Dun Dun DUN!*

[Especially Dirty Hippies]

if you want to have a really really good example of a parody, look the movie Airplane. its chock full of everything that a smart parody needs.

it is a valid substantive means for political commentary, just that people don't really understand parody anymore.

I picked the wrong day to quit dropping acid.

[DrakoLand]

Then he couldn't have roped nearly as many people, like several Representatives and a Supreme Court judge into it. People might get suspicious if he came up to them claiming to be from Wallawallistan, but Khazakstan is something most people wouldn't question as existing - and it's just obscure enough that people would accept just about anything Borat does as being just part of his backwards post-Soviet culture, despite that culture not existing at all.

To that end, it's not just about demonstrating ignorance, it's about demonstrating the cognitive dissonance that comes with it - like the way people in the film just smile and go along with Borat saying horrible things about the Roma and Jews, covering up their offense in deference to a culture which never existed.

If people are actually roped by Borat's shtick on Kazakhstan, they don't jack shit about it, and don't even know if it's a real country or not. He doesn't have to make the name obviously fault, he could use a fake name, like Droogistan, and rope people in. The other thing is that some people will see that crap, and go "this is what Kazakhstan is like!" whereas it's not. I don't think that someone should be making parodies of something that they're completely clueless about.

To be fair... should we really care about what people, who think Borat is a documentary on Kazakshstan, think?

[Shofercia]

Shof, my main complaint about your post is that you didn't like the movie. It had some hillarious momments (the sequel at least)

-Oh my God I'm so sorry.....
-Is, is something wrong with the baby?
-Yes.. it is a girl. Bring the trashcan

I'm spoiled. I live in California, and I'm Russian, so I get to watch high quality comedies from both sides of the isle. Compared to either, Borat is crap and a waste of time. For instance, Forty Year Old Virgin is thousands of times funnier, and has some decent lessons too

[The Tundra]

if you want to have a really really good example of a parody, look the movie Airplane. its chock full of everything that a smart parody needs.

it is a valid substantive means for political commentary, just that people don't really understand parody anymore.

I picked the wrong day to quit dropping acid.

its always the wrong day to stop dropping acid.

[DrakoLand]

Shof, my main complaint about your post is that you didn't like the movie. It had some hillarious momments (the sequel at least)

-Oh my God I'm so sorry.....
-Is, is something wrong with the baby?
-Yes.. it is a girl. Bring the trashcan

I'm spoiled. I live in California, and I'm Russian, so I get to watch high quality comedies from both sides of the isle. Compared to either, Borat is crap and a waste of time. For instance, Forty Year Old Virgin is thousands of times funnier, and has some decent lessons too

Yeah, and I am sure you can relate with the protagonist to....

[Especially Dirty Hippies]

To be fair... should we really care about what people, who think Borat is a documentary on Kazakshstan, think?

There are a lot of them, and while that doesn't make their position sound, logical or true, the fact that there are so many people like that makes me want to look at myself and wonder how much of the parody in life is there, I'm just not getting it?

[Shofercia]

I'm spoiled. I live in California, and I'm Russian, so I get to watch high quality comedies from both sides of the isle. Compared to either, Borat is crap and a waste of time. For instance, Forty Year Old Virgin is thousands of times funnier, and has some decent lessons too

Yeah, and I am sure you can relate with the protagonist to....

Actually, I cannot. But, I'm sure that you can, or at least will be able to in a decade or two