Ukrainian Crisis

[Estruia]

What I find funny, is that Yanukovych tried so hard to pretend he wasn't some kind of Dictator, then he goes and pulls one of the most dicator-ist moves ever. Honestly, what kind of "democratically-elected" leader calls for armed militias to fight for him after he is impeached by Parliament?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Dutch Media reports that Yanukovych has gone to the east of Ukraine and is gathering support. He also would have called for the formation of armed militias to help him. Turns out that it isn't over just yet

http://nos.nl/artikel/614901-.html

This bullshit never ends.

I don't think Yanukovych is having much luck, seeing as he reportedly was still trying to flee.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

It seems that with Yanukovych out of the way some corruption is dying out with his administration. But Euromaidan wants much much much less corruption than now.

[The balkens]

This bullshit never ends.

I don't think Yanukovych is having much luck, seeing as he reportedly was still trying to flee.

Not that he has a choice.

[Greed and Death]

Men do not give up power easily.

They do if they're pussies.

Pussies do not get into power in the first place.

[Wamitoria]

Apparently, nobody is listening to Yanukovych and Russia isn't even backing his current actions.

[Rio Cana]

Forget it, its too late. We will see two Ukraines. The constitution of 2004, which limits the Presidents power, has been brought back into use. The legislature has even fired the President. He might not want to leave but he has no support from the military.

Now why I think there will be two Ukraines. They say local officials in parts of Ukraine are taking over running those regions which means they will not kow tow to the central government any longer.

Also found out Polish and Lithuanian personnel, not sure if at the border, were supporting the Pro-EU. Ukrainians. So it seems the EU. has interfered in the internal matters of Ukraine and have succeeded. Even if Ukraine divided into two, the EU. will be more then happy to get the Western half. This means Russian power is pushed farther east away from Europe. But it also could make Eastern Ukraine and even Belarus become part of Russia.

So are certain interests trying to pull a Ukraine in Venezuela.

[Respawn]

Apparently, nobody is listening to Yanukovych and Russia isn't even backing his current actions.

From what I gather, outside of Crimea, there is no real pro-Russia movement happening in the east. Still, the easterners should check out the presidential palace and the insane luxury he acquired thanks to stolen state money and illegal bookkeeping. Maybe then they will understand what kind of slimy criminal they voted in.

[Srboslavija]

Dutch Media reports that Yanukovych has gone to the east of Ukraine and is gathering support. He also would have called for the formation of armed militias to help him. Turns out that it isn't over just yet

http://nos.nl/artikel/614901-.html

...seriously?

Yup, he specifically called on them to target doctors.

[Volnotova]

Apparently, nobody is listening to Yanukovych and Russia isn't even backing his current actions.

From what I gather, outside of Crimea, there is no real pro-Russia movement happening in the east. Still, the easterners should check out the presidential palace and the insane luxury he acquired thanks to stolen state money and illegal bookkeeping. Maybe then they will understand what kind of slimy criminal they voted in.

Not neccesarily "pro-Russia" as pro-Yanukovych.

I believe today (GMT) and tomorrow will truly determine the faith of Ukraine.

As said earlier, Putin has two options: He can either concede defeat or prop up Yanukovych.

I see no way for him to appoint a new "pawn" if Yanukovych is done away with. There are really no more viable replacements left. As (former-premier) Tymoshenko put it:

"... Yulia Tymoshenko says she is sure Ukraine will join the EU in the near future and “this will change everything”."

Which would mean losing Ukraine. (And in turn, a major blow to his Eurasian Union project)

Also, there were reports earlier that Yanukovych had tried to leave the country: It seems though that it wasn't Yanukovych but his (close) aides that were trying to leave.

[Aden Protectorate]

I really love the phrase: "liberalist tentacles".

[Rio Cana]

Time for Ukraine to do a Czechoslovakia before things really get messy. Ukraine does not need a devastating civil war. WW II was enough.

[Volnotova]

Time for Ukraine to do a Czechoslovakia before things really get messy. Ukraine does not need a devastating civil war. WW II was enough.

As said earlier: The ball is firmly in Putin's court.

Either he accepts that he has lost Ukraine or he props up Yanukovych. Which will mean (civil) war.

[Respawn]

Not neccesarily "pro-Russia" as pro-Yanukovych.

I believe today (GMT) and tomorrow will truly determine the faith of Ukraine.

As said earlier, Putin has two options: He can either concede defeat or prop up Yanukovych.

I see no way for him to appoint a new "pawn" if Yanukovych is done away with. There are really no more viable replacements left. As (former-premier) Tymoshenko put it:

"... Yulia Tymoshenko says she is sure Ukraine will join the EU in the near future and “this will change everything”."

Which would mean losing Ukraine. (And in turn, a major blow to his Eurasian Union project)

Also, there were reports earlier that Yanukovych had tried to leave the country: It seems though that it wasn't Yanukovych but his (close) aides that were trying to leave.

Eugh, you can't trust Tymoshenko for a second, either. She is just Yanuk with tits.

In some ways, losing Yanukovych isn't that much of a loss for Putin. Considering large parts of the country are still fairly pro-Russia, it's not inconceivable that there are plenty of influential lackeys whom Putin can prop up if need be.

[Respawn]

Time for Ukraine to do a Czechoslovakia before things really get messy. Ukraine does not need a devastating civil war. WW II was enough.

As said earlier: The ball is firmly in Putin's court.

Either he accepts that he has lost Ukraine or he props up Yanukovych. Which will mean (civil) war.

He probably will opt for the latter, but I doubt it would mean civil war. Putin is not going to leave Ukraine alone just because this happened, nor will Ukraine leave Russia alone. Ukraine is very dependent on Russia in many ways.

[Volnotova]

Eugh, you can't trust Tymoshenko for a second, either. She is just Yanuk with tits.

And either she lied when she told the protesters Ukraine would join the EU in the short-term or she's axe-crazy. (My guess is the first)

I also agree. Her only improvement over her rival is the fact she has tits and (depending on your viewpoint) the fact she is pro-western.

She isn't, wasn't and will not be a (significant) improvement over Yanukovych (When it comes to issues like corruption, etc.). She is a manipulative corrupt wretch.

In some ways, losing Yanukovych isn't that much of a loss for Putin. Considering large parts of the country are still fairly pro-Russia, it's not inconceivable that there are plenty of influential lackeys whom Putin can prop up if need be.

They would be discredited (and in a way already are). Also, if he doesn't prop up Yanukovych it will basically send a message: We have abandoned you/conceded defeat.

Why take the risk and pursue closer ties with Russia if there is no guarantee Russia will actually help you out when you need it?

[Rio Cana]

As said earlier: The ball is firmly in Putin's court.

Either he accepts that he has lost Ukraine or he props up Yanukovych. Which will mean (civil) war.

He probably will opt for the latter, but I doubt it would mean civil war. Putin is not going to leave Ukraine alone just because this happened, nor will Ukraine leave Russia alone. Ukraine is very dependent on Russia in many ways.

But it seems EU. members Poland and Lithuania are knocking at the back door with plenty of goodies.

[Aeken]

He probably will opt for the latter, but I doubt it would mean civil war. Putin is not going to leave Ukraine alone just because this happened, nor will Ukraine leave Russia alone. Ukraine is very dependent on Russia in many ways.

But it seems EU. members Poland and Lithuania are knocking at the back door with plenty of goodies.

When have they done that?

[Volnotova]

He probably will opt for the latter, but I doubt it would mean civil war.

The opposition (Let's still call them that for now) will not allow Russia to (practically) split up their country.

Which is what Russia backing Yanukovych would result in.

Putin is not going to leave Ukraine alone just because this happened,

Indeed. If he would it would be game-over. He would lose Ukraine.

...nor will Ukraine leave Russia alone. Ukraine is very dependent on Russia in many ways.

In a way, yet Ukraine is more important to Putin than the other way around.

[Volnotova]

But it seems EU. members Poland and Lithuania are knocking at the back door with plenty of goodies.

When have they done that?

I believe British Secretary of State William Hague has said that IMF funds will be upcomming.

[Volnotova]

EuroMaidan in Kharkiv gets attacked

Feb. 23, 2:35 a.m. In Kharkiv EuroMaidan rally was attacked by unknown men. The men drove two cars into the crowd of anti-government protesters and started shooting, reports local news website ATN. The people ran to the building of the governor's office to hide. At least two are wounded. -- Olga Rudenko

Remember how earlier there were calls for militias to be formed?

For some reason I have the feeling that if Yanukovych did indeed try to get to Russia today it was to organise some kind of face-to-face meeting with Putin (or at least his close aides/advisers).

After all, he could have arranged for a less profile escape.

[Harkback Union]

As said earlier: The ball is firmly in Putin's court.

Either he accepts that he has lost Ukraine or he props up Yanukovych. Which will mean (civil) war.

He probably will opt for the latter, but I doubt it would mean civil war. Putin is not going to leave Ukraine alone just because this happened, nor will Ukraine leave Russia alone. Ukraine is very dependent on Russia in many ways.

Russia just has to turn a tap and ukraine will plunge to chaos...

[Vareiln]

From what I gather, outside of Crimea, there is no real pro-Russia movement happening in the east. Still, the easterners should check out the presidential palace and the insane luxury he acquired thanks to stolen state money and illegal bookkeeping. Maybe then they will understand what kind of slimy criminal they voted in.

Not neccesarily "pro-Russia" as pro-Yanukovych.

I believe today (GMT) and tomorrow will truly determine the faith of Ukraine.

As said earlier, Putin has two options: He can either concede defeat or prop up Yanukovych.

I see no way for him to appoint a new "pawn" if Yanukovych is done away with. There are really no more viable replacements left. As (former-premier) Tymoshenko put it:

"... Yulia Tymoshenko says she is sure Ukraine will join the EU in the near future and “this will change everything”."

Which would mean losing Ukraine. (And in turn, a major blow to his Eurasian Union project)

Also, there were reports earlier that Yanukovych had tried to leave the country: It seems though that it wasn't Yanukovych but his (close) aides that were trying to leave.

A major part of Tymoshenko's past efforts was moving further towards the EU while still maintaining ties with Russia. I don't recall anything saying that can't happen.

[Wamitoria]

He probably will opt for the latter, but I doubt it would mean civil war. Putin is not going to leave Ukraine alone just because this happened, nor will Ukraine leave Russia alone. Ukraine is very dependent on Russia in many ways.

Russia just has to turn a tap and ukraine will plunge to chaos...

I'm sure that would end well.

"Do what we say or you get no oil!"

[Volnotova]

He probably will opt for the latter, but I doubt it would mean civil war. Putin is not going to leave Ukraine alone just because this happened, nor will Ukraine leave Russia alone. Ukraine is very dependent on Russia in many ways.

Russia just has to turn a tap and ukraine will plunge to chaos...

Wouldn't be surprised if this is among the options on the table.

Also note that it might not be as effective now as it would have been 2-3 months ago.

There is also the question of how to legitimise such a cause of action. If they prop up Yanukovych they can argue they did so because of a "coup" and the opposition not keeping their end of the agreement.

If they turn off the gas I believe it would further enflame opposition to Russia. Also note that counter-measures have been introduced (I believe) so far, thus it might not be as effective as the last two times to begin with.