Ukrainian Crisis

[Timurid Empire]

So they have really done nothing wrong? Tell me when they start up concentration camps. What they want to do with Crimea - LEGALLY Ukrainian territory - is between the political establishment of Ukraine.

1) They have beaten Communist party members in the streets.

2) They cannot remove the autonomy of the Crimea; if they do, then the people of the Crimea will be really goddamn pissed, since only 6% would be okay with being an ordinary Oblast.

1) I'm sure MANY people of varying ethnicity and political ideology were beaten in the streets. Such is what happens during a Revolution.

2) That is an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with. Not Russia nor the concern of anyone else.

[Estruia]

I'm unsure if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but Russian fighter jets entered Ukrainian airspace twice during the night.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/0 ... W520140303

[Tahar Joblis]

As far as we know a few police and maybe a few boarder guards, Most of these held against there will. Although there has only been one high profile defection the Ukrainian navy commander. But for the most part there refusing to surrender. These Ukranians will fight to the death, I have found new respect for the Ukrainians.

Read this-

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m ... berezovsky

If the Ukrainian navy fights the Russians they will end up at the bottom of the black sea. The Russian Navy was designed to fight the US, the Ukrainians will be about as difficult as the Iraqi navy was for us.

If Turkey can be talked into closing access to the black sea a surprise attack might be able to unbalance the Russians enough to allow the Ukrainian navy to sufficiently disrupt Russian supply lines.

Turkish foreign minister on Crimea and Russia.

[Napkiraly]

So they have really done nothing wrong? Tell me when they start up concentration camps. What they want to do with Crimea - LEGALLY Ukrainian territory - is between the political establishment of Ukraine.

1) They have beaten Communist party members in the streets.

2) They cannot remove the autonomy of the Crimea; if they do, then the people of the Crimea will be really goddamn pissed, since only 6% would be okay with being an ordinary Oblast.

1) Says the guy who not to long ago said he wanted to arm the Communist Party and workers to clash with them.
2) Ever hear of compromising? I'm sure that'll be one thing they're willing to drop in favour of some other things.

[The balkens]

I'm unsure if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but Russian fighter jets entered Ukrainian airspace twice during the night.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/0 ... W520140303

MIG-31 interceptors?

[United Marxist Nations]

1) They have beaten Communist party members in the streets.

2) They cannot remove the autonomy of the Crimea; if they do, then the people of the Crimea will be really goddamn pissed, since only 6% would be okay with being an ordinary Oblast.

1) I'm sure MANY people of varying ethnicity and political ideology were beaten in the streets. Such is what happens during a Revolution.

2) That is an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with. Not Russia nor the concern of anyone else.

No, it is the decision for the Crimeans to make, and they do not approve of such a policy. If the Ukraine's government were to do that, then the vast majority of the Crimea's population would likely welcome a Russian "invasion" with open arms, and, if not, would declare independence.

[Baltenstein]

So it won't be shipping out for duty anytime soon?

Not with Russian Navy vessels preventing it from leaving.

It's in Cyprus.

[United Marxist Nations]

1) They have beaten Communist party members in the streets.

2) They cannot remove the autonomy of the Crimea; if they do, then the people of the Crimea will be really goddamn pissed, since only 6% would be okay with being an ordinary Oblast.

1) Says the guy who not to long ago said he wanted to arm the Communist Party and workers to clash with them.
2) Ever hear of compromising? I'm sure that'll be one thing they're willing to drop in favour of some other things.

1) For the defense of the workers; we've seen what Golden Dawn does in Greece.

2) Who exactly would they be compromising with?

[Estruia]

I'm unsure if this was brought up earlier in the thread, but Russian fighter jets entered Ukrainian airspace twice during the night.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/0 ... W520140303

MIG-31 interceptors?

There was no mention of a MiG-31, all that I saw was that Ukraine scrambled an SU-27 to head off the Russian jets.

[Timurid Empire]

1) I'm sure MANY people of varying ethnicity and political ideology were beaten in the streets. Such is what happens during a Revolution.

2) That is an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with. Not Russia nor the concern of anyone else.

No, it is the decision for the Crimeans to make, and they do not approve of such a policy. If the Ukraine's government were to do that, then the vast majority of the Crimea's population would likely welcome a Russian "invasion" with open arms, and, if not, would declare independence.

Just for clarification, when I say it is an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with, I mean for Ukrainian citizens, which includes the people of Crimea. If the people of the lands of Ukrainian Crimea want autonomy or some such, they can petition for it, and I'd say power to 'em. But not when there are Russian troops marching through the land.

[Free Kolechia]

None of this looks good, I hope something can be worked out, and real quick.

EDIT: And isn't there a deadline coming up?

[Charlotte Ryberg]

US Pentagon announced that it will suspend or military engagements with Russia, which in my opinion is causing fresh divisions.

[United States of Devonta]

If the Ukrainian navy fights the Russians they will end up at the bottom of the black sea. The Russian Navy was designed to fight the US, the Ukrainians will be about as difficult as the Iraqi navy was for us.

If Turkey can be talked into closing access to the black sea a surprise attack might be able to unbalance the Russians enough to allow the Ukrainian navy to sufficiently disrupt Russian supply lines.

Turkish foreign minister on Crimea and Russia.

If Turkey gets involved that would be extra troops and planes for the Ukrainians and might drag in Nato.

Also Navy support. Although this is very unlikely.

[The balkens]

MIG-31 interceptors?

There was no mention of a MiG-31, all that I saw was that Ukraine scrambled an SU-27 to head off the Russian jets.

That's what I thought the Russians used...

But I'm glad the UAF got one off the ground.

[Napkiraly]

1) Says the guy who not to long ago said he wanted to arm the Communist Party and workers to clash with them.
2) Ever hear of compromising? I'm sure that'll be one thing they're willing to drop in favour of some other things.

1) For the defense of the workers; we've seen what Golden Dawn does in Greece.

2) Who exactly would they be compromising with?

1) I thought it was to crush fascism?

2) The other political parties in the event of needing to form some form of coalition government of sorts.

[Greed and Death]

If the Ukrainian navy fights the Russians they will end up at the bottom of the black sea. The Russian Navy was designed to fight the US, the Ukrainians will be about as difficult as the Iraqi navy was for us.

If Turkey can be talked into closing access to the black sea a surprise attack might be able to unbalance the Russians enough to allow the Ukrainian navy to sufficiently disrupt Russian supply lines.

.
Turkish foreign minister on Crimea and Russia.

Looks like fence sitting, I think some US foreign aid may sway him to the right side.

[United States of Devonta]

Not with Russian Navy vessels preventing it from leaving.

It's in Cyprus.

No, The Frigate is in Cyprus but the rest of the ships are trapped in Port by Russian ships in Crimea. The Frigate just got finished with Naval exercises with Nato navies.

[United Marxist Nations]

1) For the defense of the workers; we've seen what Golden Dawn does in Greece.

2) Who exactly would they be compromising with?

1) I thought it was to crush fascism?

2) The other political parties in the event of needing to form some form of coalition government of sorts.

1) Crushing fascism is the defense of the workers.

2) They are already in coalition, and have been for nearly a year.

[Estruia]

There was no mention of a MiG-31, all that I saw was that Ukraine scrambled an SU-27 to head off the Russian jets.

That's what I thought the Russians used...

But I'm glad the UAF got one off the ground.

I haven't been able to find any reports on what the Russians used, all I can find is just the generic "fighter jets"

[United Marxist Nations]

No, it is the decision for the Crimeans to make, and they do not approve of such a policy. If the Ukraine's government were to do that, then the vast majority of the Crimea's population would likely welcome a Russian "invasion" with open arms, and, if not, would declare independence.

Just for clarification, when I say it is an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with, I mean for Ukrainian citizens, which includes the people of Crimea. If the people of the lands of Ukrainian Crimea want autonomy or some such, they can petition for it, and I'd say power to 'em. But not when there are Russian troops marching through the land.

There is no such thing as "Ukrainian Crimea"; the idea of Crimea being Ukrainian is silly.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Yes, I've responded to your butthurt over my reference to the leader of the Tatar's statements about Russian annexation.

You blew up as if I said any Tatar resistance would be effective. Your long explanation of how wrong I was is impressive if you assume that's what I said. Which it wasn't.

I, for one, don't see the problem with basing a prediction of what could happen off of what a community's leader says is going to happen as it relates to that community's actions.
Chubarov has since come out and said he's urging calm and peace because Kyiv says that's the best way of handling the situation.
So he was wrong/lying before or he's waiting to see how things play out. That doesn't make my raising the specter of what he said would happen some offense unless you disregard everything people in powerful positions say.

So kindly fuck off with your constant, baseless whinging over an innocuous reference I made to a group's possible actions based on what that group's leader said those possible actions would be.

Damn, that post sound extremely butthurt. "Kindly fuck off" - that's a very butthurt thing to say (1). Anyways, what happened is that you made a stupid claim, I explained why said claim would be stupid, you defended said claim, and I made fun of said defense (2). Then you went off to pretend that I'm butthurt, when I kept on making fun of it (3). Additionally, you used the term, "insurgency", which implies a revolt of some kind (4). You furthermore linked that to the Chechen Insurgency, which was, at least, partially effective until 2006 (5). Now you're claiming that what you said, wasn't actually what you said (6). In case you need a memory refresher, here is what you said:

They despise Russia more than the government in Kiev could even hope to. Should the Russians come waltzing in, they'd more likely than not face an insurgency similar to that that occurred in Ichkeria/Chechnya.

(7)
And now you're telling us that post didn't imply an effective insurgency? Still waiting for that insurgency OD.

1) Not really. More just annoyed at constant explanation falling on deaf ears.

2) Not really. I made a claim based on what the leader of the Tatars said. You explained why what he said they'd do would be ineffective. I defended said claim. You got butthurt and reference it at the drop of a hat.

3) See above.

4) A+. You know the definition of insurgency.

5) Sure. Purpose of the linkage was because it was also anti-Russia. I made no claim as to the effectiveness of a potential Tatar insurgency.

6) No, you're just reading much more into what I said than is there. You're seeing snakes in the grass when you're on a mowed lawn.

7) Yep, that's what I said. You'll notice it doesn't reference how effective the campaign would be.

Here, I'll admit, Chechnya/Ichkeria is the only anti-Russia insurgency I could think of off the top of my head to compare a potential Tatar one to. It's likely not a good comparison because it was semi-sorta effective. Happy?

[United States of Devonta]

According to the former Georgian president via CNN interviewthe Ukrainians have the capabilities to shoot down many Russian aircraft. Ukrainians Air defense is surprisingly strong.

[Costa Fierro]

If Turkey gets involved that would be extra troops and planes for the Ukrainians and might drag in Nato.

Also Navy support. Although this is very unlikely.

The Turks are willing to get involved at least militarily because of how they view fellow Turkic peoples such as the Tartars, whom they view as "compatriots" due to some misguided idea of ethnic nationalism.

Poland's also invoked Article 4 of the NATO treaty so God only knows what they're planning.

[Timurid Empire]

Just for clarification, when I say it is an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with, I mean for Ukrainian citizens, which includes the people of Crimea. If the people of the lands of Ukrainian Crimea want autonomy or some such, they can petition for it, and I'd say power to 'em. But not when there are Russian troops marching through the land.

There is no such thing as "Ukrainian Crimea"; the idea of Crimea being Ukrainian is silly.

Crimea was put under the control of Ukraine. Thus it is Ukrainian territory.

[United States of Devonta]

If Turkey gets involved that would be extra troops and planes for the Ukrainians and might drag in Nato.

Also Navy support. Although this is very unlikely.

The Turks are willing to get involved at least militarily because of how they view fellow Turkic peoples such as the Tartars, whom they view as "compatriots" due to some misguided idea of ethnic nationalism.

Poland's also invoked Article 4 of the NATO treaty so God only knows what they're planning.

Not just Poland but Lithuania to.