CIA confirms its role in 1953 Iranian Coup

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Overthrowing the legal government of a country because Murica didnt like them is fine for YOU?

When a country right next to an evil empire that was the Soviet Union elects a pro-communist prime minister who goes around stealing other country's property, it is more than justified. It was the duty of the West to depose that communist thug.

Those are actually good points. Most anti-communist CIA coups were very justifiable. But in this case, they fucked up. They could have at least tried for elections after that. Instead, they set the stage for the Ayatollah to seize power just to satisfy very temporary economic concerns.

[Nevanmaa]

Absolutely. A military coup to overthrow Kekkonen, who did nothing but lick the Soviet ass for decades and was a de-facto dictator would've been a great blessing. I would've supported such a coup without a second thought.

*searches the name Kekkonen*

*sees term time as President*

Dafuck......

Indeed. Kekkonen himself stated that he was angry that other candidates dared to oppose him in presidential elections, and in the 1970s presidential elections were suspended altogether, in direct violation of the Finnish Constitution.

[The Three Cantons]

*searches the name Kekkonen*

*sees term time as President*

Dafuck......

Indeed. Kekkonen himself stated that he was angry that other candidates dared to oppose him in presidential elections, and in the 1970s presidential elections were suspended altogether, in direct violation of the Finnish Constitution.

Hmm......

Well, guess the opportunity got missed.

[Nevanmaa]

When a country right next to an evil empire that was the Soviet Union elects a pro-communist prime minister who goes around stealing other country's property, it is more than justified. It was the duty of the West to depose that communist thug.

Those are actually good points. Most anti-communist CIA coups were very justifiable. But in this case, they fucked up. They could have at least tried for elections after that. Instead, they set the stage for the Ayatollah to seize power just to satisfy very temporary economic concerns.

Well, not really. CIA's only major fuck-up is that they couldn't predict the 1979 islamic coup. The Shah could've stamped down on opposition movements and the coup could've been avoided altogether if the CIA had been a bit more attentive. But noo..

[The Three Cantons]

Those are actually good points. Most anti-communist CIA coups were very justifiable. But in this case, they fucked up. They could have at least tried for elections after that. Instead, they set the stage for the Ayatollah to seize power just to satisfy very temporary economic concerns.

Well, not really. CIA's only major fuck-up is that they couldn't predict the 1979 islamic coup. The Shah could've stamped down on opposition movements and the coup could've been avoided altogether if the CIA had been a bit more attentive. But noo..

Instead we get Islamic Republic of Iran

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Wikipedia: Mosaddegh convinced parliament to grant him emergency powers for six months "to decree any law he felt necessary for obtaining not only financial solvency, but also electoral, judicial, and educational reforms".

Y'know what, forget everything I said.

[Nevanmaa]

Wikipedia: Mosaddegh convinced parliament to grant him emergency powers for six months "to decree any law he felt necessary for obtaining not only financial solvency, but also electoral, judicial, and educational reforms".

Y'know what, forget everything I said.

Yup, sounds like Kekkonen. Two tyrants, but unfortunately only one of them was overthrown.

[The Three Cantons]

Wikipedia: Mosaddegh convinced parliament to grant him emergency powers for six months "to decree any law he felt necessary for obtaining not only financial solvency, but also electoral, judicial, and educational reforms".

Y'know what, forget everything I said.

Yup, sounds like Kekkonen. Two tyrants, but unfortunately only one of them was overthrown.

Back in 1970's

"Sir, we got reports of a commie President in Finland suspending canditates"

"WHAT! Since when does Finland have a commie President?"

"He isnt exactly commie sir, more like socialist but, you know them...."

"Anyway, we dont have time for these. We need to focus in watching Persia"

"OK Sir. What do you want me to do?"

"Eh...forget it, none of them needs watching. Just get me some coffee, will y'a?"

[Turkish Federation]

Absolutely. A military coup to overthrow Kekkonen, who did nothing but lick the Soviet ass for decades and was a de-facto dictator would've been a great blessing. I would've supported such a coup without a second thought.

Being Anti-democracy just never gets old does it hippo?

When it's the commies, democracy's a mere hindrance. We're used to it in Turkey anyway.

Also, while nationalization might be illegal, it is not illegitimate when sovereignty's concerned. The "justification" of "ze Soviets" comes off as a mere "But I thought he was going to steal my stuff" after shooting an unarmed hobo in the street, and only higlights the hypocrisy that stems from stay-behind policies.The fat cats won, the peoples lost.

[Nevanmaa]

Absolutely. A military coup to overthrow Kekkonen, who did nothing but lick the Soviet ass for decades and was a de-facto dictator would've been a great blessing. I would've supported such a coup without a second thought.

Being Anti-democracy just never gets old does it hippo?

I might be anti-democracy sometimes, but that's only because I'm pro-freedom. No elected official has a right to violate property rights like Mossadegh did.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Being Anti-democracy just never gets old does it hippo?

I might be anti-democracy sometimes, but that's only because I'm pro-freedom. No elected official has a right to violate property rights like Mossadegh did.

For once I actually agree with you.

[New Randia]

it's true that: democracy=/=liberty

[New Randia]

but i still say the cia royally f***ed up iran and afghanistan.

[New Randia]

if you aren't willing to invest the 25 years it takes to build up a civil society then you shouldn't go around toppling dictators.

every dirty war ends with schools, hospitals, and markets. thinking they end with the first election in a millennia is an exercise in pissing on the electric fence the second time. (didn't learn the first time)

[Timna]

Are they talking to people who've never even looked at a fucking archive here?

You can see all through the Arabian Peninsula stuff from the fifties that the US understands and basically reaffirms its role in Ajax in many other places.

Faaaack.

[New Chalcedon]

Overthrowing the legal government of a country because Murica didnt like them is fine for YOU?

When a country right next to an evil empire that was the Soviet Union elects a pro-communist prime minister who goes around stealing other country's property, it is more than justified. It was the duty of the West to depose that communist thug.

Uh-huh. Go Team America, World Police!!

Not to mention the fact that the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company was created by bribing the then-Shah of Persia into a royalties "agreement" which involved 90% of the profits being shipped out to the richest country in the world, a country which subsequently organised an invasion of Persia and the overthrow of the Shah upon the thinnest of pretexts (the UK and USSR accused Reza Shah Pahlavi of collaboration with Hitler, despite his well-known disdain for Hitler's politics and anti-Semitism).

Also not to mention that both the company and its concession were the products of gunboat diplomacy, bribery and imperialism. Mossadegh did the right thing in annulling the blatantly illegal and exploitative D'Arcy concession. Or to mention that British - specifically, British - interference in Iranian internal affairs had already resulted in the Communists you claim to hate so much occupying half the country. Or that Mossadegh's most substantive reform was to abolish - in 1952! - the feudal structures of land ownership in favour of a small-farmer, village-council system that significantly increased food production. Or that even the US Secretary of State had heavily criticised the British approach to Mossadegh (describing them as being intent upon a "rule or ruin" policy) until they were cozened into initiating a coup d'etat.

None of that matters - clearly, he was a dirty Communist and had to be deposed. *nods*

Absolutely. A military coup to overthrow Kekkonen, who did nothing but lick the Soviet ass for decades and was a de-facto dictator would've been a great blessing. I would've supported such a coup without a second thought.

And it appears that, as per usual, you are living in a different reality from the rest of the world. Kekkonen (leader of the Centrist Party, not the Communist, Socialist or even Social-Democratic Parties) pursued a policy of neutrality in the Cold War (inherited from his predecessor, President Paasikivi), encouraging trade with both NATO and the Warsaw Pact, which was a key factor in Finland's three decades of sustained economic growth from 1956-1986.

It appears that, according to the World As Pronounced By Hippostania, anything other than unwavering devotion to the dictates of the United States was "licking the Soviet ass".

[Wind in the Willows]

Being Anti-democracy just never gets old does it hippo?

I might be anti-democracy sometimes, but that's only because I'm pro-freedom. No elected official has a right to violate property rights like Mossadegh did.

I agree with some of your views, Hippo. But being anti-democracy does not result in being pro-freedom.

[L Ron Cupboard]

I suppose in 60 years we will have the CIA confirming they were involved in orchestrating the Arab spring.

[Nevanmaa]

Uh-huh. Go Team America, World Police!!

Not to mention the fact that the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company was created by bribing the then-Shah of Persia into a royalties "agreement" which involved 90% of the profits being shipped out to the richest country in the world, a country which subsequently organised an invasion of Persia and the overthrow of the Shah upon the thinnest of pretexts (the UK and USSR accused Reza Shah Pahlavi of collaboration with Hitler, despite his well-known disdain for Hitler's politics and anti-Semitism).

I don't really care about that. APOC was a legitimate corporation that Mossadegh illegally nationalized, that's all that matters.

Also not to mention that both the company and its concession were the products of gunboat diplomacy, bribery and imperialism. Mossadegh did the right thing in annulling the blatantly illegal and exploitative D'Arcy concession.

There was nothing illegal about the d'Arcy Concession. It was a legitimate contract, no matter how "imperialistic" you think it was.

Or to mention that British - specifically, British - interference in Iranian internal affairs had already resulted in the Communists you claim to hate so much occupying half the country.

Hm? I most admit that I was not aware of this. More info please?

Or that Mossadegh's most substantive reform was to abolish - in 1952! - the feudal structures of land ownership in favour of a small-farmer, village-council system that significantly increased food production.

Using unconstitutional dictatorial powers. Yeah, no thanks. Besides, this was nothing but a prelude to nationalization of all industries.

None of that matters - clearly, he was a dirty Communist and had to be deposed. *nods*

Indeed.

And it appears that, as per usual, you are living in a different reality from the rest of the world. Kekkonen (leader of the Centrist Party, not the Communist, Socialist or even Social-Democratic Parties) pursued a policy of neutrality in the Cold War (inherited from his predecessor, President Paasikivi), encouraging trade with both NATO and the Warsaw Pact, which was a key factor in Finland's three decades of sustained economic growth from 1956-1986.

I've started a new thread to avoid a thread-jack here

[Timna]

I suppose in 60 years we will have the CIA confirming they were involved in orchestrating the Arab spring.

They wish.

This, perhaps, is relevant (as well as being quite funny and well-written, because it's by Adam Curtis).

[New Chalcedon]

Uh-huh. Go Team America, World Police!!

Not to mention the fact that the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company was created by bribing the then-Shah of Persia into a royalties "agreement" which involved 90% of the profits being shipped out to the richest country in the world, a country which subsequently organised an invasion of Persia and the overthrow of the Shah upon the thinnest of pretexts (the UK and USSR accused Reza Shah Pahlavi of collaboration with Hitler, despite his well-known disdain for Hitler's politics and anti-Semitism).

I don't really care about that. APOC was a legitimate corporation that Mossadegh illegally nationalized, that's all that matters.

A corporation that only operates due to illegal practices (bribery, gunboat "diplomacy", etc.) is not a "legitimate" corporation, anymore than a numbers racket is a legitimate gambling enterprise.

Also not to mention that both the company and its concession were the products of gunboat diplomacy, bribery and imperialism. Mossadegh did the right thing in annulling the blatantly illegal and exploitative D'Arcy concession.

There was nothing illegal about the d'Arcy Concession. It was a legitimate contract, no matter how "imperialistic" you think it was.

A contract gotten by illegitimate means is, by definition, illegitimate.

Or to mention that British - specifically, British - interference in Iranian internal affairs had already resulted in the Communists you claim to hate so much occupying half the country.

Hm? I most admit that I was not aware of this. More info please?

C/o Wikipedia:

In response to the Shah's defiance, the Red Army on 16 September moved to occupy Tehran. Fearing execution by the communists, many people (especially the wealthy) fled the city. Rezā Shāh, in a letter hand written by Foroughi, announced his abdication, as the Russians entered the city on 17 September. The British wanted to restore the Qajar Dynasty to power, because they had served British interests well prior to Rezā Shāh's reign. But the heir to the throne, Hamid Hassan Mirza, was a British citizen who spoke no Persian. Instead (with the help of Foroughi), Crown Prince Mohammad Reza Pahlavi took the oath to become the Shah of Iran. Rezā Shāh was arrested before he was able to leave Tehran, and placed into British custody. He was sent to exile in South Africa as a British prisoner, where he died shortly after. The Allies withdrew from Tehran on 17 October. However, Iran was effectively divided between Britain and the Soviet Union for the duration of the global war, with the Soviets stationed in northern Iran, and the British not moving beyond Hamadan and Qazvin.

The invasion of Iran in 1941 was co-ordinated between the UK and the USSR and resulted in the utterly illegal overthrow of Reza Shah Pahlavi and a decade or more's disruption to Iran. I can't blame the Iranian people for holding resentment toward both Russia and Britain after the war.

Or that Mossadegh's most substantive reform was to abolish - in 1952! - the feudal structures of land ownership in favour of a small-farmer, village-council system that significantly increased food production.

Using unconstitutional dictatorial powers. Yeah, no thanks. Besides, this was nothing but a prelude to nationalization of all industries.

Evidence, please?

And it appears that, as per usual, you are living in a different reality from the rest of the world. Kekkonen (leader of the Centrist Party, not the Communist, Socialist or even Social-Democratic Parties) pursued a policy of neutrality in the Cold War (inherited from his predecessor, President Paasikivi), encouraging trade with both NATO and the Warsaw Pact, which was a key factor in Finland's three decades of sustained economic growth from 1956-1986.

I've started a new thread to avoid a thread-jack here

Noted. I may or may not participate. *reads link*

Seeing your wild-eyed, hair-on-fire OP has decided me against participating, thanks.

[Turkish Federation]

I don't really care about that. APOC was a legitimate corporation that Mossadegh illegally nationalized, that's all that matters.

Then touché. This kind of opinion basically restricts the scope of international freedom to the countries of the West, and turns everyone else into their muddy backyards. Iran doesn't deserve a national economy. Iran doesn't deserve its sovereignty. Iran's sole purpose in the World is to keep exporting oil because the contract say so. And the Boston Tea Party can go screw themselves, they shouldn't have destroyed that legal merchandise ^_^

[Mogiliov]

"Hey guys, we went to the Moon"

America seems to interfere with almost everything.

freakin' americans invading the moon.
and for what?
the goddamn oil i tell you!!!

no shit

[New Chalcedon]

I don't really care about that. APOC was a legitimate corporation that Mossadegh illegally nationalized, that's all that matters.

Then touché. This kind of opinion basically restricts the scope of international freedom to the countries of the West, and turns everyone else into their muddy backyards. Iran doesn't deserve a national economy. Iran doesn't deserve its sovereignty. Iran's sole purpose in the World is to keep exporting oil because the contract say so. And the Boston Tea Party can go screw themselves, they shouldn't have destroyed that legal merchandise ^_^

That, too. The entire United States was formed out of a colossal act of illegality and overturning of "legitimate" contracts.

[Mollary]

Then touché. This kind of opinion basically restricts the scope of international freedom to the countries of the West, and turns everyone else into their muddy backyards. Iran doesn't deserve a national economy. Iran doesn't deserve its sovereignty. Iran's sole purpose in the World is to keep exporting oil because the contract say so. And the Boston Tea Party can go screw themselves, they shouldn't have destroyed that legal merchandise ^_^

That, too. The entire United States was formed out of a colossal act of illegality and overturning of "legitimate" contracts.

And slavery was technically a legal contract; I suppose he should logically support that as well?