Abortion and Capital Punishment

[Sociobiology]

No, because if he continues, it's rape.

Then she can naturally revoke consent to pregnancy, as you consider it an extension of sex. If you do not consider it an extension of sex, it must therefore be consented to separately, and abortions are okay.

I'm stealing that.

[Viperco1]

What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat

[The Norgan Alliance]

Of fucking course not. But you don't care about that, do you? No, as long as you can make yourself feel superior and punish the ebul sluts, you don't care.

Let's not get personal here, you'll lose your credibility.

[Sociobiology]

What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat

because most people don't know enough about development or evolution to understand the connection, at least that's my two cents.

[The Norgan Alliance]

What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat

Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat

[Mavorpen]

What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat

Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat

Humans are animals.

[Sociobiology]

Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat

Humans are animals.

and thus Mav. spots one of the major problems, ignorance of biology.

[The Norgan Alliance]

Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not wild animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat

Humans are animals.

Fixed

[Viperco1]

What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat

Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat

I support laws protecting human rights because I don't want myself or those I care about to get eaten, hunted etc. but I don't see why there is a presumed privileged status for humans, sure fetuses are human but pigs are smarter why should they have less rights? Or my cats which are actually wanted, and a voluntary responsibility?

[Mavorpen]

Humans are animals.

Fixed

So what, domesticated cats are humans?

[The Norgan Alliance]

Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat

I support laws protecting human rights because I don't want myself or those I care about to get eaten, hunted etc. but I don't see why there is a presumed privileged status for humans, sure fetuses are human but pigs are smarter why should they have less rights? Or my cats which are actually wanted, and a voluntary responsibility?

Maybe because humans think they're better somehow? Anyway this isn't the place for this discussion unless you're trying to bring up some point that I missed.

[The ivain isles]

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

probabilty =/= consent

being alive makes death probably, not committing suicide is not consent to homicide.
driving a car makes death more likely, this is not consent to death.

Her body is there before the pregnancy, it'll be there afterward, so no, there isn't.

so if I steal your car drive it around for a few weeks then drop it off back at your house, no crime has occurred?

Your effectively saying, a foetus has rights, we'll just choose to ignore them because a foetus isn't any benefit to me now.

not in the slightest, it has rights just as a dog has rights, its rights however do not include a right to use the organs of others against their will.

There's a huge scale in the difference of completely eliminating a foetus which has the high probability of seeing some 70+ years of life so a woman can keep nine months of comfort.

no it really does not. assuming no abortion happens it still has a less than 50% chance of reaching birth more less anything after that.

You still haven't told me when women are strapped down to tables for nine months, btw, and I've seen plenty of pregnant women moving about freely in, well, bodies.

but those women can also have an abortions if they wish, often in pill form.

Yes, and different species evolve between then and now.

and whats your point, both are potentialities, which so far has been your only justification.

When you find a rat capable of understanding mathematics, tell me.

rats have been shown to understand some mathematics in laboratory conditions.
when you find a fetus that understands mathematics tell me.

When you find any individual who consented to their creation, tell me, and I'll give you that point.
As for your car car crash bit, you accept the fact that there is a probability your going to be in your car and cause a car crash and you go ahead anyway to do it. You accept the risk, and in accepting the risk, you accept the liability if you cause a crash, you accept you may cause harm, however unwillingly, and accept the liabilities that entails.

There isn't if you gave me the keys when I tell you there may be a probability ill be gone with it for nine months.

Yet the woman decided to have sex with the full knowledge that may result in a baby which will need her organs for nine months, and that the said foetus will have a high probability to living 70+ years of a life.

Approx. 15% of pregnancies result in miscarriage, I don't know where your 50% is coming from.

Still no answer on the tables, and the morning after pill is perfectly acceptable in my view,

Probability, and by which time it's a completely different species, so my point still stands, where's your Einstein rat?
And I think there are plenty of humans who understand mathematics, hence the reason your able to communicate via Internet.

[Shaggai]

And I think there are plenty of humans who understand mathematics, hence the reason your able to communicate via Internet.

How many are fetuses?

[Mavorpen]

First, let me say that you did a fantastic job dodging EVERY single point here and addressing straw men.

When you find any individual who consented to their creation, tell me, and I'll give you that point.

Straw man. The point, which you completely missed or ignored, is that simply living, knowing full well the possibility of dying, isn't consent to death.

As for your car car crash bit, you accept the fact that there is a probability your going to be in your car and cause a car crash and you go ahead anyway to do it. You accept the risk, and in accepting the risk, you accept the liability if you cause a crash, you accept you may cause harm, however unwillingly, and accept the liabilities that entails.

Again, fucking straw man. He didn't say that YOU caused the crash and YOU are therefore responsible. He said that consenting to driving knowing the possibility of death doesn't mean you consent to death.

There isn't if you gave me the keys when I tell you there may be a probability ill be gone with it for nine months.

So here you ADMIT that if you steal something and give it back it's still a crime.

Yet the woman decided to have sex with the full knowledge that may result in a baby which will need her organs for nine months, and that the said foetus will have a high probability to living 70+ years of a life.

You then IGNORE the fact that a fetus DOESN'T have a high probability of living until 70+ years.

Approx. 15% of pregnancies result in miscarriage, I don't know where your 50% is coming from.

Bullshit.

[The ivain isles]

Yes, becuase if we don't, the terrorist foetuses win, flying into women's wombs, and making them pregnant.

Aye, pretty much. If the fetus isn't wanted, it is no better than a squatter.

Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?

[Shaggai]

Aye, pretty much. If the fetus isn't wanted, it is no better than a squatter.

Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?

No. You are, in fact, a person, not a fetus.

[Blasveck]

Aye, pretty much. If the fetus isn't wanted, it is no better than a squatter.

Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?

This is an extreme hypothetical....

[The ivain isles]

Then she can naturally revoke consent to pregnancy, as you consider it an extension of sex. If you do not consider it an extension of sex, it must therefore be consented to separately, and abortions are okay.

I'm stealing that.

No, because the foetus isn't the man who raped her. And yes they have to be consented to separately, hence it's two consenting partners having sex. No foetus has consented to an abortion, I would think.

[The ivain isles]

Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?

No. You are, in fact, a person, not a fetus.

No, I am, in fact, a human, as is a foetus.

[Tlaceceyaya]

I'm stealing that.

No, because the foetus isn't the man who raped her. And yes they have to be consented to separately, hence it's two consenting partners having sex. No foetus has consented to an abortion, I would think.

No, because a fetus can't consent.

[Tlaceceyaya]

No. You are, in fact, a person, not a fetus.

No, I am, in fact, a human, as is a foetus.

Did you just disagree about you being a person?

[Mavorpen]

I'm stealing that.

No, because the foetus isn't the man who raped her. And yes they have to be consented to separately, hence it's two consenting partners having sex. No foetus has consented to an abortion, I would think.

So do parasitic worms have to consent in order for us to remove them from our bodies?

[Blasveck]

I'm stealing that.

No, because the foetus isn't the man who raped her. And yes they have to be consented to separately, hence it's two consenting partners having sex. No foetus has consented to an abortion, I would think.

It has no way of consenting nor not consenting.

It has no senses until a certain amount of time, no thoughts, no feelings, no nothing.

It's not human until it can survive outside the womb.

Until then, it is a trespasser against the mothers will if she revokes consent, and is, biologically, a parasite, taking nutrients directly from the mothers body, against her will, if she revokes consent.

[The ivain isles]

Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?

This is an extreme hypothetical....

Yep, yet so is abortion law. If a doctor miss practices and kills both an unborn child and a mother, it's a double murder, if he aborts it, it's a pay check. How's that for extreme realities?

[Mavorpen]

Yep, yet so is abortion law. If a doctor miss practices and kills both an unborn child and a mother, it's a double murder, if he aborts it, it's a pay check. How's that for extreme realities?

That's bullshit.