I'm stealing that.
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by Sociobiology » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:15 pm
by Viperco1 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:15 pm
by The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:16 pm
Mavorpen wrote:Of fucking course not. But you don't care about that, do you? No, as long as you can make yourself feel superior and punish the ebul sluts, you don't care.
by Sociobiology » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:18 pm
Viperco1 wrote:What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat
by The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:20 pm
Viperco1 wrote:What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat
by Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:21 pm
The Norgan Alliance wrote:Viperco1 wrote:What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat
Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat
by Sociobiology » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:22 pm
by The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:24 pm
by Viperco1 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:25 pm
The Norgan Alliance wrote:Viperco1 wrote:What I don't get is why abortion isn't more closely related to animal rights. I would assume some consistency in treatment of lesser(magnitude not value) consciousness's. Animals need to eat they have the right to kill to do so, mother would be pointlessly endangered/impoverished/restricted by an unwanted child so abort it, a murderer is a threat to all other people so execute him. -Pro-choice, pro-capital punishment, pro-meat
Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat
by Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:26 pm
by The Norgan Alliance » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:27 pm
Viperco1 wrote:The Norgan Alliance wrote:Maybe because of the fact that fetuses are humans, not animals? -Pro-Life, Anti-Capital Punishment, Pro-Meat
I support laws protecting human rights because I don't want myself or those I care about to get eaten, hunted etc. but I don't see why there is a presumed privileged status for humans, sure fetuses are human but pigs are smarter why should they have less rights? Or my cats which are actually wanted, and a voluntary responsibility?
by The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:27 pm
Sociobiology wrote:The ivain isles wrote:
No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.
probabilty =/= consent
being alive makes death probably, not committing suicide is not consent to homicide.
driving a car makes death more likely, this is not consent to death.Her body is there before the pregnancy, it'll be there afterward, so no, there isn't.
so if I steal your car drive it around for a few weeks then drop it off back at your house, no crime has occurred?Your effectively saying, a foetus has rights, we'll just choose to ignore them because a foetus isn't any benefit to me now.
not in the slightest, it has rights just as a dog has rights, its rights however do not include a right to use the organs of others against their will.There's a huge scale in the difference of completely eliminating a foetus which has the high probability of seeing some 70+ years of life so a woman can keep nine months of comfort.
no it really does not. assuming no abortion happens it still has a less than 50% chance of reaching birth more less anything after that.You still haven't told me when women are strapped down to tables for nine months, btw, and I've seen plenty of pregnant women moving about freely in, well, bodies.
but those women can also have an abortions if they wish, often in pill form.Yes, and different species evolve between then and now.
and whats your point, both are potentialities, which so far has been your only justification.When you find a rat capable of understanding mathematics, tell me.
rats have been shown to understand some mathematics in laboratory conditions.
when you find a fetus that understands mathematics tell me.
by Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:34 pm
The ivain isles wrote:When you find any individual who consented to their creation, tell me, and I'll give you that point.
The ivain isles wrote:As for your car car crash bit, you accept the fact that there is a probability your going to be in your car and cause a car crash and you go ahead anyway to do it. You accept the risk, and in accepting the risk, you accept the liability if you cause a crash, you accept you may cause harm, however unwillingly, and accept the liabilities that entails.
The ivain isles wrote:There isn't if you gave me the keys when I tell you there may be a probability ill be gone with it for nine months.
The ivain isles wrote:Yet the woman decided to have sex with the full knowledge that may result in a baby which will need her organs for nine months, and that the said foetus will have a high probability to living 70+ years of a life.
The ivain isles wrote:Approx. 15% of pregnancies result in miscarriage, I don't know where your 50% is coming from.
by The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:35 pm
by Shaggai » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:38 pm
The ivain isles wrote:Ceannairceach wrote:Aye, pretty much. If the fetus isn't wanted, it is no better than a squatter.
Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?
by Blasveck » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:38 pm
The ivain isles wrote:Ceannairceach wrote:Aye, pretty much. If the fetus isn't wanted, it is no better than a squatter.
Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?
by The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:39 pm
by The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:41 pm
Shaggai wrote:The ivain isles wrote:
Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?
No. You are, in fact, a person, not a fetus.
by Tlaceceyaya » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:41 pm
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.
by Tlaceceyaya » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:42 pm
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.
by Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:42 pm
by Blasveck » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:42 pm
by The ivain isles » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:43 pm
Blasveck wrote:The ivain isles wrote:
Okay, let's just say, hypothetically, I kidnapped you, brought you to someone's house, and put you in a position where, if you leave that house, you'll die. Now, say the owner finds out your there, and decide they don't want you in that house, and demand you leave. Now, the police show up, and say it will take a certain length of time for you to leave safely, yet there not happy with that, and remove you forcefully, resulting in your death. Should that be legal?
This is an extreme hypothetical....
by Mavorpen » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:43 pm
The ivain isles wrote:Yep, yet so is abortion law. If a doctor miss practices and kills both an unborn child and a mother, it's a double murder, if he aborts it, it's a pay check. How's that for extreme realities?
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