The Main Cause of School Shootings

[Hairless Kitten II]

So there's no correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths...

Watch Switzerland & Austria. Those 2 neighbours are very comparable in life standard, climate, environment, etc...

But they have different gun laws & gun possessions. Isn't it surprising that Switzerland is counting more deaths by guns as Austria?

I'm even silent about that country in the sky, USA.

But of course, there's no correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths, isn't it Der Teut?

[The Magic Spirit]

To return to the subject of school shootings:

In the Penn and Teller Bullshit! episode about violent video games they introduced Chris Cooney and his school shooting triangle.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6212995.html
Troubled kid, Guns, and Mass-Killing Simulators (violent games). Penn and Teller tear the triangle to shreds as they show that it's bullshit.
They say that guns shouldn't be in there because the most deathly spree was with a knife. I think it's a bad idea to discount that side of the triangle based on a single event. The same with the games: they show ample violent incidents before games even were invented. The troubled kid was discounted because of the shootings involving adults. That was the weakest part of the episode for me, but then they put a rifle in the hands of a nine-year-old gamer and allowed him to shoot it. He had no desire to fire more than one bullet and ended up crying.

And Chris Cooney? He's a hypocrit. While he demonstrates against violent games with fictional shooting, he appears to have no trouble using the real deal. He's a gun enthusiast with a collection of real firearms. If you make a triangle, be consequent and try to ban the whole thing instead of just one side of it.

[Robarya]

Propaganda film? Not even close.

If the information in his film was false then institutions as NRA would sue him till he's death.

They didn't.

You must not be aware of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. One can film lies without being sued, should they desire.

And yes, it is propoganda... to suggest otherwise is probably the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

If you are unaware of the 1st Amendment that I referred to above, I can post a link to show you what it's about.

Sure, but if you publish false information, one can sue you. Also in America.

It is propaganda. And propaganda is not necessarily false information per se. A good way to put it is that propaganda is often reality thousand times exaggerated, and oversimplified.

If you don't think that clip is horrendously exaggerated and oversimplified, lacking in any in-depth analysis, I don't know what to say.

[Der Teutoniker]

The report doesn't fit your mind. That's the problem.

Do you have a report that's suggesting something else?

I don't... but the report is still incomplete... I'm not saying it's wrong, merely noting the staggering potentiality for it to be less correct than it seems (again, it omits 80% of the national statistics, in only the categories it gives).

[Der Teutoniker]

[How about you do something for me? How about you highlight where I said, or even implied where I said that it would have a 100% success rate? Or give one piece of evidence that suggests that gun restriction laws don't help?

Certainly.

How about a little restriction. Seeing how that has worked out everywhere else.

Italics were not added to the above quote, that is a straight copy-paste of your entire post with no additions or subtractions.

I know, you're pwned, right?

[Hairless Kitten II]

Propaganda film? Not even close.

If the information in his film was false then institutions as NRA would sue him till he's death.

They didn't.

You must not be aware of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. One can film lies without being sued, should they desire.

And yes, it is propoganda... to suggest otherwise is probably the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

If you are unaware of the 1st Amendment that I referred to above, I can post a link to show you what it's about.

Sure, but if you publish false information, one can sue you. Also in America.

It is propaganda. And propaganda is not necessarily false information per se. A good way to put it is that propaganda is often reality thousand times exaggerated, and oversimplified.

If you don't think that clip is horrendously exaggerated and oversimplified, lacking in any in-depth analysis, I don't know what to say.

The clip is exaggerated. But that doesn't make the entire movie propaganda.

If Michael M. said in his movie untrue stuff about guns or the NRA, I'm sure he would be sued.

[Der Teutoniker]

But of course, there's no correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths, isn't it Der Teut?

This graph is just as incomplete as your other statistics. How can I know that these nations were not picked based on the person making the graph to show what they wanted it to show?

[The Magic Spirit]

I would personally be willing to kill someone for stealing an Euro from me, but besides that: Why should one put oneself at the mercy of a burglar, when you are not even aware of his intentions? I would personally not give a shit about statistics. I would do what I could do neutralize the threat rather than hiding in a closet sobbing like a little sissy faggot.

So that's the real issue. You consider hiding sissy behavior to a point where you don't care about statistics that say a gun isn't actually protecting your family. I consider violence wrong unless you're absolutely 100% you're in mortal peril. That's where we differ.

[Der Teutoniker]

The clip is exaggerated. But that doesn't make the entire movie propaganda.

If Michael M. said in his movie untrue stuff about guns or the NRA, I'm sure he would be sued.

Only if it was detrimental to their business... but they are an organization that is supported from dues, rather than sales.

One can publish lies all they want, so long as they don't for sure cause detriment to other people/businesses. Mr. Moore is not taken seriously enough in America to realistically be able to be sued because he skews all his information, and reports on half-truths.

[Der Teutoniker]

The clip is exaggerated. But that doesn't make the entire movie propaganda.

You're right, this one clip does not mean the entire movie was propoganda... still and all, most of the movie was propoganda, independant of that clip in and of itself.

[Hairless Kitten II]

But of course, there's no correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths, isn't it Der Teut?

This graph is just as incomplete as your other statistics. How can I know that these nations were not picked based on the person making the graph to show what they wanted it to show?

What are you suggesting? That we should compare USA with 3th world or semi-third world countries as Columbia or South Africa?
Or maybe we should compare USA with countries that have a war on their ground, no?

All those countries are comparable in life standard as USA.

Well, now it's on you to provide us with sources about develeoped countries with worse figures as USA... Good luck

[The Magic Spirit]

But of course, there's no correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths, isn't it Der Teut?

This graph is just as incomplete as your other statistics. How can I know that these nations were not picked based on the person making the graph to show what they wanted it to show?

You can't know. But unless you have evidence proving your point it's impossible to properly debate this.

The countries in the graph show a correlation, even though it's not too exact. More gun ownership means more deaths. If you were to show one country that doesn't follow this trend, then we'd have something to discuss.

[Der Teutoniker]

Well, now it's on you to provide us with sources about develeoped countries with worse figures as USA... Good luck

I'm saying that I don't think the whole cause is gun-ownership, and nothing else. I think attitude towards guns make a big difference, as does people who attempt to inappropriately handle the issue.

[The Magic Spirit]

Sure gun-ownership isn't the single deciding factor, but it's still a major one. Restricting guns would at least handle part of the issue.

[Helgrin]

[How about you do something for me? How about you highlight where I said, or even implied where I said that it would have a 100% success rate? Or give one piece of evidence that suggests that gun restriction laws don't help?

Certainly.

How about a little restriction. Seeing how that has worked out everywhere else.

Italics were not added to the above quote, that is a straight copy-paste of your entire post with no additions or subtractions.

I know, you're pwned, right?

No. You misunderstood. I was talking about the correlation between tougher gun laws and reduiced gun violence. You took it out of context so that it supported you argument. Now, where is that opposing evidence that I asked for?

[Hairless Kitten II]

But of course, there's no correlation between gun ownership and firearm deaths, isn't it Der Teut?

This graph is just as incomplete as your other statistics. How can I know that these nations were not picked based on the person making the graph to show what they wanted it to show?

You can't know. But unless you have evidence proving your point it's impossible to properly debate this.

The countries in the graph show a correlation, even though it's not too exact. More gun ownership means more deaths. If you were to show one country that doesn't follow this trend, then we'd have something to discuss.

It's not that USA is 'scoring' a little higher...but immense.

[Robarya]

The clip is exaggerated. But that doesn't make the entire movie propaganda.

If Michael M. said in his movie untrue stuff about guns or the NRA, I'm sure he would be sued.

I commented the clip as being overly exaggerated and oversimplified; the rest of the documentary isn't that bad. But propaganda is either way strictly speaking the spreading of information to help or hurt a group, a nation, an individual, a political idea, and so on and on. So it can both be true and false. Basically everything that politicians say is propaganda, but the word has a negative touch to it, so no one likes to use it except when it comes to "extreme" ideas.

[Robarya]

I would personally be willing to kill someone for stealing an Euro from me, but besides that: Why should one put oneself at the mercy of a burglar, when you are not even aware of his intentions? I would personally not give a shit about statistics. I would do what I could do neutralize the threat rather than hiding in a closet sobbing like a little sissy faggot.

So that's the real issue. You consider hiding sissy behavior to a point where you don't care about statistics that say a gun isn't actually protecting your family. I consider violence wrong unless you're absolutely 100% you're in mortal peril. That's where we differ.

In a situation where I might have to use self-defense to keep myself and my family alive, I won't rely on the good will of the home invader to spare us, no matter what statistics say.

[Der Teutoniker]

No. You misunderstood. I was talking about the correlation between tougher gun laws and reduiced gun violence. You took it out of context so that it supported you argument. Now, where is that opposing evidence that I asked for?

You said "or" give you opposing evidence. I've already fulfilled on of the requirments you made of me, the "or" implies (in English usage) that I need not fulfill other requirments.

[Hairless Kitten II]

The clip is exaggerated. But that doesn't make the entire movie propaganda.

If Michael M. said in his movie untrue stuff about guns or the NRA, I'm sure he would be sued.

I commented the clip as being overly exaggerated and oversimplified; the rest of the documentary isn't that bad. But propaganda is either way strictly speaking the spreading of information to help or hurt a group, a nation, an individual, a political idea, and so on and on. So it can both be true and false. Basically everything that politicians say is propaganda, but the word has a negative touch to it, so no one likes to use it except when it comes to "extreme" ideas.

The cartoon is expressing in an exaggerated way why Americans love their gun: fear.

I believe that. If 'everybody' around me would have a gun, I would have one too.

[Der Teutoniker]

In a situation where I might have to use self-defense to keep myself and my family alive, I won't rely on the good will of the home invader to spare us, no matter what statistics say.

(That clap wasn't sarcastic, I truly applaud your resolve, and will to act.)

[Der Teutoniker]

The cartoon is expressing in an exaggerated way why Americans love their gun: fear.

I believe that. If 'everybody' around me would have a gun, I would have one too.

K great. But not all Americans own guns out of fear. I want a hunting rifle, not because I'm afraid of the deer 200 mi. North of where I am, so that I have to go kill them.

I don't want to own a handgun out of fear. I want to own a handgun out of respect for the terrifying, and martial nature of humanity. I want to own a handgun to shoot things (such as, at a range). A gun has an additional benefit of being able to protect my family. Precaution, and good planning are not necessarily fear.

[Hairless Kitten II]

I would personally be willing to kill someone for stealing an Euro from me, but besides that: Why should one put oneself at the mercy of a burglar, when you are not even aware of his intentions? I would personally not give a shit about statistics. I would do what I could do neutralize the threat rather than hiding in a closet sobbing like a little sissy faggot.

So that's the real issue. You consider hiding sissy behavior to a point where you don't care about statistics that say a gun isn't actually protecting your family. I consider violence wrong unless you're absolutely 100% you're in mortal peril. That's where we differ.

In a situation where I might have to use self-defense to keep myself and my family alive, I won't rely on the good will of the home invader to spare us, no matter what statistics say.

Might.

How many times you already have used self-defens to keep yourself and your family alive?

[Helgrin]

No. You misunderstood. I was talking about the correlation between tougher gun laws and reduiced gun violence. You took it out of context so that it supported you argument. Now, where is that opposing evidence that I asked for?

You said "or" give you opposing evidence. I've already fulfilled on of the requirments you made of me, the "or" implies (in English usage) that I need not fulfill other requirments.

This is like arguing with a Creationist: "Your entire argument is void because one tiny thing was slightly misworded, and I don't have to make an argument because I am right!"
Also, that was an additional request for evidence, not the same one. Note that Hairless Kitten has also requested evidence. Do you have any?

[Phillippanoa]

I think guns are the main cause of school shootings...