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So, Abortion.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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What should the legal conditions for abortion be?

Always legal.
142
27%
Legal until the date of expected birth.
24
4%
Legal until the start of the third trimester.
62
12%
Legal until the start of the second trimester.
48
9%
Legal until the fetus can feel pain.
37
7%
Legal until the fetus has brain activity.
51
10%
Legal until the fetus has a heartbeat.
35
7%
Completely illegal, but allow the morning-after pill.
58
11%
Completely illegal and do not allow the morning-after pill.
78
15%
 
Total votes : 535
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Denecaep
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So, Abortion.

Postby Denecaep » Thu May 30, 2013 1:58 pm

Unfortunately, there are always some issues that we have not thoroughly examined. I like to inform myself a lot, but I realized with shock today that I have never really examined why I am pro-choice. I know that I am and I know some basic arguments for it, but abortion is such a taboo subject that I've rarely heard a genuine discussion about it that didn't involve religion. If I ever were to become pro-life, I would need secular reasons, but I know those reasons are out there.

So, I set out to research. I have a far better understanding of the facts now, but I am still unsure of where to reach a decision from. If the decision were based on pain, then I should clearly be against abortion after about the 25th week. If the decision were based on the philosophical idea of "life at conception," I should be against abortion entirely. But it seems that if I level myself back to a utilitarian analysis of what an abortion really is, then I should continue being completely pro-choice.

But frankly, I am definitely conflicted, because I've never seen the basic philosophical premises of the pro-choice and pro-life positions go head to head. I'm hoping that I can foster that in this thread.

So, I'll start with some questions that I would have for either side.

For anyone that is pro-choice...

At what point does the elimination of a fetus/baby become murder? Why at that particular point?

For anyone that is pro-life...

What about "life" becomes so important at conception? Why must we not interfere with it at that point?

And, just in general, NSG, why do you have the opinion that you have on abortion?
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Densaner
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Postby Densaner » Thu May 30, 2013 2:09 pm

Ah this old chestnut. Abortion should be freely available, legal and safe. What goes on inside another persons body is not my concern and should not be the concern of god botherers or politicians.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu May 30, 2013 2:12 pm

There is already a thread on this.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 30, 2013 2:13 pm

Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu May 30, 2013 2:14 pm

Denecaep wrote:For anyone that is pro-choice...

At what point does the elimination of a fetus/baby become murder? Why at that particular point?


After viable birth. (edit:) Because that's when it makes sense to construct the legal fiction that is personhood for humans that haven't yet developed a neurological personhood.
Last edited by Risottia on Thu May 30, 2013 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Denecaep
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Postby Denecaep » Thu May 30, 2013 2:14 pm



Meh, I suppose, but that thread seems to be focusing on that particular story. I'd like a more cohesive debate if at all possible.
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Denecaep
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Postby Denecaep » Thu May 30, 2013 2:14 pm

Risottia wrote:
Denecaep wrote:For anyone that is pro-choice...

At what point does the elimination of a fetus/baby become murder? Why at that particular point?


After viable birth.


Why?
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The Orson Empire
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Postby The Orson Empire » Thu May 30, 2013 2:15 pm

There are already multiple threads on this.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu May 30, 2013 2:15 pm

Denecaep wrote:
Risottia wrote:
After viable birth.


Why?


edited, added.
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TaQud
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Postby TaQud » Thu May 30, 2013 2:17 pm

I say we should Abort Abortion threads. There's too many of them!
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu May 30, 2013 2:19 pm

TaQud wrote:I say we should Abort Abortion threads. There's too many of them!

Ifreann wrote:
Divair wrote:Why is this thread still alive? :blink:

Thread abortion is murder.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu May 30, 2013 2:19 pm

TaQud wrote:I say we should Abort Abortion threads. There's too many of them!

OMG YOU KILLER!!! THREADS GOT PERSONHOOD SINCE CONCEPTION!!! :D
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TaQud
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Postby TaQud » Thu May 30, 2013 2:20 pm

Ifreann wrote:
TaQud wrote:I say we should Abort Abortion threads. There's too many of them!

Ifreann wrote:Thread abortion is murder.

I had a feeling I would see that quote of yours. :p
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu May 30, 2013 2:20 pm

TaQud wrote:I say we should Abort Abortion threads. There's too many of them!

The only kind of abortion I approve of. (to be clear, I am not trying to get into an argument)
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Jessjohnesik
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Postby Jessjohnesik » Thu May 30, 2013 2:24 pm

Legal until the foetus can feel pain or until the second trimester. What is really horrible are saline abortions and when they rip the foetus apart to get it out. While it feels pain.
Although obviously a woman needs to have a choice.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Thu May 30, 2013 2:24 pm

Ifreann wrote:
TaQud wrote:I say we should Abort Abortion threads. There's too many of them!

Ifreann wrote:Thread abortion is murder.

Gauthier wrote:
Divair wrote:But isn't a thread born when it is posted?


But if it's a legitimate thread the mods have a way of shutting that whole thing down.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu May 30, 2013 2:25 pm

A man has broken into my house.
It is a very harsh winter outside.
I maintain the right to throw him out if I so choose, regardless of how close spring is.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Thu May 30, 2013 2:25 pm

Legal, nuff said.
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The United Soviet Socialist Republic
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Postby The United Soviet Socialist Republic » Thu May 30, 2013 2:25 pm

How many abortion threads does one forum need?
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Reploid Productions
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Postby Reploid Productions » Thu May 30, 2013 2:27 pm

Denecaep wrote:Unfortunately, there are always some issues that we have not thoroughly examined.

THERE ARE?! :blink: Wait, this is NSG, right? I didn't slip into some bizarro-NSG where we don't regularly apply kinetic force to badly-decayed equines, right?
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Thu May 30, 2013 2:27 pm

Part of me is tempted to quote Richard Nixon on this, but I'll exercise some self-restraint.

I consider myself pro-life in that I believe abortion should be safe, legal and rare, and the whole affair could be avoided if greater efforts were made to teach kids about having safe sex and if birth control was widely available.
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TaQud
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Postby TaQud » Thu May 30, 2013 2:27 pm

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:How many abortion threads does one forum need?

The World May never know..
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List Your Sexuality, nickname(s), NSG Family and Friends, your NS Boyfriend or Girlfriend, gender, favorite quotes and anything else that shows your ego here.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu May 30, 2013 2:28 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:A man has broken into my house.
It is a very harsh winter outside.
I maintain the right to throw him out if I so choose, regardless of how close spring is.

Personally I maintain the right to properly slaughter it and braise it.
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Mike the Progressive
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Postby Mike the Progressive » Thu May 30, 2013 2:28 pm

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:How many abortion threads does one forum need?


A billion.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Thu May 30, 2013 2:28 pm

The United Soviet Socialist Republic wrote:How many abortion threads does one forum need?

Well since we already beat the abortion horse into a jelly, we need to beat the stick to death.
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