Transhumanism: What's your take on it?

[Ruskyet]

I look at the whole thing neutrally...I think you should allow people to decide for themselves, and that the banning of technologies should be an illegal practice.

If they ever were to build a cybernetic body, capable of synchronically functioning with my brain, id likely get the upgrade: mostly because such technology would simply have me drooling af its complexity.

The only part of the body I think irreplacable is the brain. Its the center of all processing, the miracle that grants us free will: as such, I believe its not to be tampered with.

[The USOT]

See its interesting to see you say that last little bit because I found what you just said to sound silly. There is no inherrant link between an updated brain and a custom virus either working or being desirable. My television for instance can be enhanced by adding a computer to it, but without the computer it cannot be hacked, and furthermore I can fix/repair the computer without the tv being damadged.

You will be assimilated, Resistance is futile.

Oh Borg-off

[DuThaal Craftworld]

Let's go! Mechanical, scientific, genetic- what's the downside?

[Alekera]

Let's go! Mechanical, scientific, genetic- what's the downside?

I have some beefs with transhumanism... not moral (OK, maybe a little) beefs but philosophical beefs.


Like at what point are you no longer human?

Or who design the implant/genetics? Cause I really don't trust corporation nor government...

And furthermore, would this create an elitism class between transhumanists and naturalists? Would there be strife?

[Natapoc]

Yes it's very unreasonable because the way the technology works is just totally different from the optic nerve implant you are proposing. This is not a step in the direction of sending "visual signals" directly to the optic nerve without the eye.

This is only slightly different than what you're doing right now by staring at your computer.

One of the things that frustrates me about transhumanists is their frequent inability to distinguish between some incremental improvements and refinements and an incredible leap in technology.

Just because Google glass is physically close to your eye does not mean it's a path to artificial eye replacement (that would require a totally different technology, rather than a refinement or clever use of existing technology)

EDIT: never mind that was a dumb point. a more general question then, why do you consider it unlikely we will be able to understand how our brains work in the near future?

I don't know if we'll be able to do that or not. I hope we'll be able to do that but there are some theoretical problems regarding the ability of one human brain to know everything about itself.

The difference between me and the transhuminists is I don't make claims about the types of technology that will exist "once we fully understand the brain" when that understanding may or may not ever occur and when we don't how that understanding will manifest.

I also don't place my hopes in technology that does not yet exist. I want change now using the technology that exists NOW. I'm not going to rely on some future technology that may or may not ever be developed before trying to make the world a better place.

[DuThaal Craftworld]

Let's go! Mechanical, scientific, genetic- what's the downside?

I have some beefs with transhumanism... not moral (OK, maybe a little) beefs but philosophical beefs.


1) Like at what point are you no longer human?

2) Or who design the implant/genetics? Cause I really don't trust corporation nor government...

3) And furthermore, would this create an elitism class between transhumanists and naturalists? Would there be strife?

1) When your conscious is no longer human.
2) Doctors? Not corporations, of course not, neither the government, but perhaps a special medical profession?
3) Of course. We, as Homo Sapiens, will always create strife over every issue. Should we allow this to block a very valuable medical and scientific breakthrough?

[Natapoc]

Let's go! Mechanical, scientific, genetic- what's the downside?

Absolutely nothing.

I'm going to "hack" the transhumans and turn them all into my little slaves except they will enjoy it because I'll activate the pleasure centers of their artificial brains every time they do what I say. With my army of drones I'll build an empire, controlled via wifi or 4G if out of range!

It would be absolutely hilarious if someone made the argument that they would liberate the transhumans by getting them out of 4g and wifi range or blocking my signal.

[Alekera]

I have some beefs with transhumanism... not moral (OK, maybe a little) beefs but philosophical beefs.


1) Like at what point are you no longer human?

2) Or who design the implant/genetics? Cause I really don't trust corporation nor government...

3) And furthermore, would this create an elitism class between transhumanists and naturalists? Would there be strife?

1) When your conscious is no longer human.
2) Doctors? Not corporations, of course not, neither the government, but perhaps a special medical profession?
3) Of course. We, as Homo Sapiens, will always create strife over every issue. Should we allow this to block a very valuable medical and scientific breakthrough?

*Allows Google to monitor all movement and information related to movement to get sent to third parties
To follow up:

1. good enough...
2. I know doctors would be doing the implanting/genetic alteration? But who would design the implants or alterations? If its Monsanto, I wouldn't since they can practically patent life. I also wouldn't trust Facebook or Google for their GPS chip*
3. Well if it comes to transhumanists being the majority and naturalists being the minority.... And lets say certain legislation passes making have some kind of chip in you. Yeah, things could get hairly which shouldn't need to....

[DuThaal Craftworld]

Let's go! Mechanical, scientific, genetic- what's the downside?

Absolutely nothing.

I'm going to "hack" the transhumans and turn them all into my little slaves except they will enjoy it because I'll activate the pleasure centers of their artificial brains every time they do what I say. With my army of drones I'll build an empire, controlled via wifi or 4G if out of range!

It would be absolutely hilarious if someone made the argument that they would liberate the transhumans by getting them out of 4g and wifi range or blocking my signal.

…
Yes, because there's no way there would be a built in failsafe to someone doing that, or just, you know, not replacing your brain. Supplementing it? Maybe. Replacing it? Stupid, no?

[Antares XII]

Again, you are a radically different person from who you were at the age of one. I don't see the problem here.

If you had read the post, you'd have seen exactly what the problem is. I said as much. The point is that we don't know how we'll change. Growing up, we become a mature version of the person we were, barring mishaps that fuck us up. But right now, we really don't know the pitfalls of how people might change.

If brain uploading or assimilation makes me the Ubermensch, then I am cool with it. But if it turns out that I might become a sociopath, or a manic-depressive android, then I'm out.

I did, in fact, read the post. Bolded text relevant. Mishaps that fuck us up occur all the time on all scales. "fucked up" is any state that is not your original state, which would be the fresh, clean slate of a fully undeveloped mind. By default, this means we are all fucked up, which brings me to my conclusion.

It's just as likely attempts at assimilation would result in retardation at best, or a boost in intelligence for a year or so followed by irreversible failure and death or disability.

And just as likely that it would work to varying degrees of success.

trans-humanism, at least to me is a double edged blade. It can be both good and bad...

And that is exactly my point. It could be either. At this point there is no reason to assume it will be either, so we should research the entire matter further to find out satisfactorily.

[Natapoc]

Absolutely nothing.

I'm going to "hack" the transhumans and turn them all into my little slaves except they will enjoy it because I'll activate the pleasure centers of their artificial brains every time they do what I say. With my army of drones I'll build an empire, controlled via wifi or 4G if out of range!

It would be absolutely hilarious if someone made the argument that they would liberate the transhumans by getting them out of 4g and wifi range or blocking my signal.

…
Yes, because there's no way there would be a built in failsafe to someone doing that, or just, you know, not replacing your brain. Supplementing it? Maybe. Replacing it? Stupid, no?

Your computer has multiple failsafes in place to prevent hackers and yet zero day exploits are found and exploited regularly.

Can you imagine the lulz anonymous would have?

[Natapoc]

1) When your conscious is no longer human.
2) Doctors? Not corporations, of course not, neither the government, but perhaps a special medical profession?
3) Of course. We, as Homo Sapiens, will always create strife over every issue. Should we allow this to block a very valuable medical and scientific breakthrough?

*Allows Google to monitor all movement and information related to movement to get sent to third parties
To follow up:

1. good enough...
2. I know doctors would be doing the implanting/genetic alteration? But who would design the implants or alterations? If its Monsanto, I wouldn't since they can practically patent life. I also wouldn't trust Facebook or Google for their GPS chip*
3. Well if it comes to transhumanists being the majority and naturalists being the minority.... And lets say certain legislation passes making have some kind of chip in you. Yeah, things could get hairly which shouldn't need to....

Denying your child a cerebral implant is child abuse! They will never be able to compete in the workplace, let alone graduate elementary school without augmented intelligence.

If you refuse, your child will be taken away from you by social services.

[Phocidaea]

Transhumanists' central philosophical problem, which seems to be quite typified by this thread, is the inherent problem of extrapolating future conditions based on present trends.

(Image)

Absent a serious understanding of the complete mechanics of the speculative technologies they propose, and the long litany of necessary steps needed to reach there, the extrapolation argument amounts to a lot of handwaving.

Moore's Law is a casual observation about the capabilities of integrated circuits in the consumer products market. It is not a scientific law. And the technology it seeks to track has likely already begun reaching diminishing returns. Which is why computing has required an overwhelming turn to parellelization and neural networks to squeeze more juice out of conventional silicon computers. And absent a radical paradigm shift to a different method of computing, silicon will reach fundamental physical limits in the near future, and it will no longer be possible to further miniaturize transistors.

I was just thinking about exactly what you said. Moore's Law isn't a scientific fact, it's an extrapolation of an observation disguised as a fact that's already begun to prove false. It fit like a glove in its first few decades, but it's already starting to loosen. Eventually, at this rate, Wirth's Law will probably be closer to reality until we see another total revolution in computing technology.

Frankly I don't understand the obsession with computer science anyway. It's not real science. It's basically electrical engineering and programming dressed up as a full-fledged scientific field on par with physics or biology.

[Alekera]

*Allows Google to monitor all movement and information related to movement to get sent to third parties
To follow up:

1. good enough...
2. I know doctors would be doing the implanting/genetic alteration? But who would design the implants or alterations? If its Monsanto, I wouldn't since they can practically patent life. I also wouldn't trust Facebook or Google for their GPS chip*
3. Well if it comes to transhumanists being the majority and naturalists being the minority.... And lets say certain legislation passes making have some kind of chip in you. Yeah, things could get hairly which shouldn't need to....

Denying your child a cerebral implant is child abuse! They will never be able to compete in the workplace, let alone graduate elementary school without augmented intelligence.

If you refuse, your child will be taken away from you by social services.

Well thats messed up... child service, i mean....

[Norstal]

What do you guys think of transhumanism?
Personally, I think it sounds great.

I don't really see the point of it. Why are you speculating something that hasn't exist yet? Science and engineering are both laborious and transhumanism just trivializes it.

[Natapoc]

What do you guys think of transhumanism?
Personally, I think it sounds great.

I don't really see the point of it. Why are you speculating something that hasn't exist yet? Science and engineering are both laborious and transhumanism just trivializes it.

Is this like, the second time, ever that we've agreed on something?

[Phocidaea]

The Culture is awesome.

And here's another point where we disagree.

[AETEN II]

The Culture is awesome.

And here's another point where we disagree.

How the hell is the Culture not awesome? They're immortal technological gods that construct godly AI to create a perfect society where crime is rare if not unheard of, those wonderful simulation, lulzy body substitution. Oh, yeah, and orgies everywhere.

Isn't that the definition of heaven in most religions?

[Trollgaard]

And here's another point where we disagree.

How the hell is the Culture not awesome? They're immortal technological gods that construct godly AI to create a perfect society where crime is rare if not unheard of, those wonderful simulation, lulzy body substitution. Oh, yeah, and orgies everywhere.

Isn't that the definition of heaven in most religions?

The tripod alien things should have exterminated the culture.

[Antares XII]

And here's another point where we disagree.

How the hell is the Culture not awesome? They're immortal technological gods that construct godly AI to create a perfect society where crime is rare if not unheard of, those wonderful simulation, lulzy body substitution. Oh, yeah, and orgies everywhere.

Isn't that the definition of heaven in most religions?

Replace "orgies" with "scientific breakthroughs, technological advancements, and furtherment of knowledge and understanding", and it is in mine.

[Regnum Dominae]

How the hell is the Culture not awesome? They're immortal technological gods that construct godly AI to create a perfect society where crime is rare if not unheard of, those wonderful simulation, lulzy body substitution. Oh, yeah, and orgies everywhere.

Isn't that the definition of heaven in most religions?

Replace "orgies" with "scientific breakthroughs, technological advancements, and furtherment of knowledge and understanding", and it is in mine.

This.

[Luveria]

Replace "orgies" with "scientific breakthroughs, technological advancements, and furtherment of knowledge and understanding", and it is in mine.

This.

Awesomegasm. If only the above would replace religion.

[Antares XII]

This.

Awesomegasm. If only the above would replace religion.

One can only hope...

[Norstal]

I don't really see the point of it. Why are you speculating something that hasn't exist yet? Science and engineering are both laborious and transhumanism just trivializes it.

Is this like, the second time, ever that we've agreed on something?

I probably agree with you on a number of issues, but never say anything because I'm a sneaky bastard.

[AETEN II]

How the hell is the Culture not awesome? They're immortal technological gods that construct godly AI to create a perfect society where crime is rare if not unheard of, those wonderful simulation, lulzy body substitution. Oh, yeah, and orgies everywhere.

Isn't that the definition of heaven in most religions?

Replace "orgies" with "scientific breakthroughs, technological advancements, and furtherment of knowledge and understanding", and it is in mine.

They have that as well you know, that's just status quo for civilizations that AI's that can simulate ENTIRE UNIVERSES WITHIN UNIVERSES.

We're talking about guys that use dimensional ripples as weapons, which happens when they brake too hard.