Transhumanism: What's your take on it?

[Trotskylvania]

Not in all instances. Quackery happens exactly when you forge ahead without heeding the proper course of science. Just because things have worked in the past doesn't mean that they will work out in the future, and most transhumanist technologies involve alterations that are more radical and unpredictable then what is accepted today.

If you're going to be a proponent of something, you have to prove why it's better.

Are you suggesting technology isn't heeding the proper course of science? Technological and medical benefits are proving why it's better to do something than to do nothing.

And even in my own rather short life, I've seen plenty of technological and medical advances turn out to be dead ends. New treatments that show incredible promise at first often turn out to be just as deadly as what they are trying to cure. Many seemingly straightforward gadgets turn out to be far more complicated. Fusion power has been "just around the corner" since the 1950s.

What is most bothersome about kids like you in our movement is that not only do you seem to be totally unconcerned about actually convincing outsiders that the benefits would outweigh the costs, but you seem rather convinced that there won't be any downsides or pitfalls at all to transhuman technology.

[Phocidaea]

The Singularity is almost upon us. Transhumanism is the inevitable progress of humanity.

Very interesting.

If only you had any proof (especially for that first bold statement, since the second one has already been discussed).

[Meryuma]

It shouldn't be banned but it's foolish. I wouldn't call it "harmless", though; it's the subcultural fringe of a very common and very destructive worldview.

What exactly is destructive about?

I'm referring to that history has been a linear story of progress culminating in modern industrial society and that more intensive industry = more prosperous/efficient/whatever.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

The Singularity is almost upon us. Transhumanism is the inevitable progress of humanity.

Very interesting.

If only you had any proof (especially for that first bold statement, since the second one has already been discussed).

Read Ray Kurzweil.

[Luveria]

Are you suggesting technology isn't heeding the proper course of science? Technological and medical benefits are proving why it's better to do something than to do nothing.

And even in my own rather short life, I've seen plenty of technological and medical advances turn out to be dead ends. New treatments that show incredible promise at first often turn out to be just as deadly as what they are trying to cure. Many seemingly straightforward gadgets turn out to be far more complicated. Fusion power has been "just around the corner" since the 1950s.

What is most bothersome about kids like you in our movement is that not only do you seem to be totally unconcerned about actually convincing outsiders that the benefits would outweigh the costs, but you seem rather convinced that there won't be any downsides or pitfalls at all to transhuman technology.

You make quite a few assumptions about me. I haven't said there won't be any downsides or pitfalls.

[Technopolis]

It's not necessarily a destructive ideology, but the objectionable worldview is that "Hey, nature sucks, it just isn't very good at evolution and so on, and everything would be so much better if we took everything into our own hands!"

No, the antagonism to the natural world is not an inherent aspect of transhumanism. I believe the natural world is beautiful, fascinating, and truly fantastic. However, I believe that there are aspects of the human condition we can improve upon, and that many of these additions would actually allow us to better preserve the natural world from the harm our current practices inflict.

Exactly. Sorry that this might be a bit of a tangent, but a prime example of this is the 'organic' movement who go against genetic modification and chemical treatment of farm plants when in actuality to farm without these techniques requires deforestation on a much larger scale. Natural =/= good, and sometimes even not good for nature.

[Napkiraly]

The Singularity is almost upon us. Transhumanism is the inevitable progress of humanity.

Moore's law is slowing down. We don't know how our brains fully work. The Singularity is not near.

That said other forms of transhumanism technology/procedures might become possible, depending on what we can do with nanotechnology, genetics, etc.

I want a HUD screen integrated into my eyes dammit.

[Phocidaea]

Very interesting.

If only you had any proof (especially for that first bold statement, since the second one has already been discussed).

Read Ray Kurzweil.

I've tried.

Say what you will, but I'd like solid evidence and not rhetoric designed by a clever old man to sell books to edgy teenagers.

Every singularity-related prediction, for the most part, is based completely on the "Law" of Accelerating Returns, which can't be accurately proven and is seriously overstated at the least. Trotskylvania and I were saying the same thing a way back - it's basically just a wider application of Moore's Law, which is dubious enough even when restricted to computers. It's based on a few decades worth of confirmation-biased observations presented as "evidence" and already starting to prove false.

[Threlizdun]

What exactly is destructive about?

I'm referring to that history has been a linear story of progress culminating in modern industrial society and that more intensive industry = more prosperous/efficient/whatever.

Again, we've had this discussion before. I personally became interested in the philosophy with the interest that it could be used to attain a post-industrial society. Most transhumanists I have seen do display a general level of soicial and ecological consciousness that even if they don't necessary believe we need to transcend industrialism, we must at least modify it to be more sustainable than it currently is. If people accepted a strictly techno-utopian and bright green ecological outlook with transhumanism, then yes, it would be doomed to lead to devastation, but simply as an ideology that maintains the importance of technology along with other methods of altering society, it can be a perfectly sound ideology.

[Trotskylvania]

Very interesting.

If only you had any proof (especially for that first bold statement, since the second one has already been discussed).

Read Ray Kurzweil.

Kurzweil is a crank who treats all other fields as a special case of computer engineering. He really doesn't have the foggiest idea of what he's talking about, and the people actually doing research in the relevant fields (AI, computer R&D, neurology) think he's a loon.

[Trotskylvania]

I'm referring to that history has been a linear story of progress culminating in modern industrial society and that more intensive industry = more prosperous/efficient/whatever.

Again, we've had this discussion before. I personally became interested in the philosophy with the interest that it could be used to attain a post-industrial society. Most transhumanists I have seen do display a general level of soicial and ecological consciousness that even if they don't necessary believe we need to transcend industrialism, we must at least modify it to be more sustainable than it currently is. If people accepted a strictly techno-utopian and bright green ecological outlook with transhumanism, then yes, it would be doomed to lead to devastation, but simply as an ideology that maintains the importance of technology along with other methods of altering society, it can be a perfectly sound ideology.

Basically, the divide between you two is the divide between "garden" greens and "wilderness" greens. Social vs deep ecology.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Read Ray Kurzweil.

Kurzweil is a crank who treats all other fields as a special case of computer engineering. He really doesn't have the foggiest idea of what he's talking about, and the people actually doing research in the relevant fields (AI, computer R&D, neurology) think he's a loon.

This is depressing defeatism... Kurzweil has made many an accurate prediction, such as the use of digital books becoming more prevalent then actual paper. I can't even remember the last actual paper book I read, my Kindlefire is what I use instead. Hell, thats how I read his book.

He even predicted Siri (kinda)

[Napkiraly]

Kurzweil is a crank who treats all other fields as a special case of computer engineering. He really doesn't have the foggiest idea of what he's talking about, and the people actually doing research in the relevant fields (AI, computer R&D, neurology) think he's a loon.

This is depressing defeatism... Kurzweil has made many an accurate prediction, such as the use of digital books becoming more prevalent then actual paper. I can't even remember the last actual paper book I read, my Kindlefire is what I use instead. Hell, thats how I read his book.

He even predicted Siri (kinda)

My grandfather while working for IBM predicted that could fit into phones in the 70's to my mum and that most people at some point would own a computer. Holy shenanigans he must have been some kind of freaking mind wizard.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

This is depressing defeatism... Kurzweil has made many an accurate prediction, such as the use of digital books becoming more prevalent then actual paper. I can't even remember the last actual paper book I read, my Kindlefire is what I use instead. Hell, thats how I read his book.

He even predicted Siri (kinda)

My grandfather while working for IBM predicted that could fit into phones in the 70's to my mum and that most people at some point would own a computer. Holy shenanigans he must have been some kind of freaking mind wizard.

I don't understand the skepticism for Kurzweil. What he promises is basically immortality and limitless options in totally realistic virtual worlds. It sounds epic.

[Napkiraly]

My grandfather while working for IBM predicted that could fit into phones in the 70's to my mum and that most people at some point would own a computer. Holy shenanigans he must have been some kind of freaking mind wizard.

I don't understand the skepticism for Kurzweil. What he promises is basically immortality and limitless options in totally realistic virtual worlds. It sounds epic.

And Pornhub gives me the impression that if I become a pizza delivery guy I'm going to be able to bang women left, right, and centre. Fantasy is all it is.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

I don't understand the skepticism for Kurzweil. What he promises is basically immortality and limitless options in totally realistic virtual worlds. It sounds epic.

And Pornhub gives me the impression that if I become a pizza delivery guy I'm going to be able to bang women left, right, and centre. Fantasy is all it is.

Pornhub doesn't exist tho, it never tries to be anything other then a 10min fantasy. Kurzweil is an inventor and a reputable voice within the study of Futurism.

The guy is even on a radical diet so that he can make it to the Singularity alive. (he's in his sixties).

[Luveria]

I don't understand the skepticism for Kurzweil. What he promises is basically immortality and limitless options in totally realistic virtual worlds. It sounds epic.

And Pornhub gives me the impression that if I become a pizza delivery guy I'm going to be able to bang women left, right, and centre. Fantasy is all it is.

It's possible if you're a helluva pizza delivery guy.

[Napkiraly]

And Pornhub gives me the impression that if I become a pizza delivery guy I'm going to be able to bang women left, right, and centre. Fantasy is all it is.

Pornhub doesn't exist tho. Kurzweil is an inventor and a reputable voice within the study of Futurism.

Wat.

Not really. A lot think he's a quack. Not as loony as de Garis is, but still a loony.

[Napkiraly]

And Pornhub gives me the impression that if I become a pizza delivery guy I'm going to be able to bang women left, right, and centre. Fantasy is all it is.

It's possible if you're a helluva pizza delivery guy.

I guess. See, porn scenarios are more realistic than the Singularity.

[Luveria]

It's possible if you're a helluva pizza delivery guy.

I guess. See, porn scenarios are more realistic than the Singularity.

My point is it's a possibility but it's about as likely as you being that pizza delivery guy. Not impossible, just very unlikely.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Pornhub doesn't exist tho. Kurzweil is an inventor and a reputable voice within the study of Futurism.

Wat.

Not really. A lot think he's a quack. Not as loony as de Garis is, but still a loony.

Hugo de Garis isn't totally nuts, I admit I don't know as much about him as Kurzweil. But he is also a Singularist, so thats good.

[Napkiraly]

I guess. See, porn scenarios are more realistic than the Singularity.

My point is it's a possibility but it's about as likely as you being that pizza delivery guy. Not impossible, just very unlikely.

I dunno man, I could make that pizza extra spicy.

[Napkiraly]

Wat.

Not really. A lot think he's a quack. Not as loony as de Garis is, but still a loony.

Hugo de Garis isn't totally nuts, I admit I don't know as much about him as Kurzweil. But he is also a Singularist, so thats good.

No, he's completely off his fucking rocker.

[Imperial Nilfgaard]

Hugo de Garis isn't totally nuts, I admit I don't know as much about him as Kurzweil. But he is also a Singularist, so thats good.

No, he's completely off his fucking rocker.

Predicting a catastrophic gigadeath war between supporters of cyborgs and luddites who he calls Terrans may seem a bit over the top but you never know. He may turn out to be right. Either way, the Singularity is coming so buckle up!

[Sebbal]

Transhumanism is inevitable. We've been using technology to enhance and change our lives since we had the cognitive ability to realise banging rocks together might yield something useful.

Think about, most of us ware watches 24/7, people might as well have their phones surgically implanted given the amount of time they use them, and bionic medical implants just keep getting more advanced.

I embrace it fully. I don't think a purely biological body is necessary to maintain humanity. All the matter's is what is in your head. It's all information. Everything you feel is information begin processed by your brain. I don't see what would be lost If we merged with technology fully, becoming post physical if you will.

And consider this, the internet already allows us to interact as something of a collective mind (one that admittedly wouldn't be allowed anything sharper than a spherical sponge given some of the people on it). Having our minds merged with a super computer, the end result of transhumanism in my view, would simply be the natural evolution of this.