NATION

PASSWORD

Cause of the American Civil War.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What was the cause of the American

A.Slavery.
57
31%
B.States Rights
23
12%
C.States right was the broader political meaning but slavery was the decision that ignited things.
92
50%
D.Other Specify
13
7%
 
Total votes : 185

User avatar
Kota land
Envoy
 
Posts: 325
Founded: May 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Cause of the American Civil War.

Postby Kota land » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:26 pm

What do you believe the cause of the civil war?
Be nice. I agree with option C.
Long live kota land
"History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall." Adolf Hitler, Edict of 18 March 1939
How can one be Pro-Troop without being Anti-war?
Generation 31 (The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.)
TaQud wrote:I say we should Abort Abortion threads. There's too many of them!

User avatar
The Sector Union
Minister
 
Posts: 2192
Founded: Mar 08, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Sector Union » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:29 pm

Slavery.
Purge the Xeno! For the Homo Sapien, For the Imperium of Terra!!!!

"In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good." -Sun Tzu

User avatar
Seleucas
Minister
 
Posts: 3203
Founded: Jun 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Seleucas » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:29 pm

Protection of slavery wasn't as much of a bargaining chip as it used to be in keeping the Union together, for a variety of economic and political reasons. Hence the South deciding to go it alone.
Last edited by Seleucas on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Like an unscrupulous boyfriend, Obama lies about pulling out after fucking you.
-Tokyoni

The State never intentionally confronts a man's sense, intellectual or moral, but only his body, his senses. It is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced.
- Henry David Thoreau

Oh please. Those people should grow up. The South will NOT rise again.

The Union will instead, fall.
-Distruzio

Dealing with a banking crisis was difficult enough, but at least there were public-sector balance sheets on to which the problems could be moved. Once you move into sovereign debt, there is no answer; there’s no backstop.
-Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England

Right: 10.00
Libertarian: 9.9
Non-interventionist: 10
Cultural Liberal: 6.83

User avatar
Greenvul
Envoy
 
Posts: 307
Founded: Apr 24, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Greenvul » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:30 pm

Slavery was a dying institution. Not to mention the fact that Lincoln was trying to pass the 13th amendment. No not "that" 13th amendment, the original one. You know, the one that bared the Federal government from forcing a state to make slavery illegal. Yes, Lincoln really did try to get that amendment passed, but it failed because "Oh my" the southern states seceded. Why would the southern states secede over slavery if an amendment protecting slavery was being passed? It had more to do with "Let us govern ourselves you tyrant" than anything else.

When Confederate POW's were asked by Union soldiers why they were fighting, their reply was "Because you were here."

User avatar
Ainin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13989
Founded: Mar 05, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Ainin » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:31 pm

US: Slavery is bad, mmkay?
CS: NO! WE LIKE OUR SLAVEZ!
US: Release them.
*CS ragequits union*
*CS blows up small US fort*
*US zerg rushes CS*
Republic of Nakong | 內江共和國 | IIwiki · Map · Kylaris
"And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you — where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat?"

User avatar
Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:32 pm

The war was because Lincoln was elected and the South didn't like that, so rather than tough it up and live in a democratic society they decided they should get special treatment and not have to play by the rules they didn't like. The North thought that was as stupid as it sounds and so the South left like the cowards they were, and still are. The war was over the South acting like a bunch of little kids and wanting to destroy democracy. Slavery was a factor, but not the cause.
Last edited by Ensiferum on Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Greenvul
Envoy
 
Posts: 307
Founded: Apr 24, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Greenvul » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:34 pm

Ensiferum wrote:The war was because Lincoln was elected and the South didn't like that, so rather than tough it up and live in a democratic society they decided they should get special treatment and not have to play by the rules they didn't like. The North thought that was as stupid as it sounds and so the South left like the cowards they were, and still are. The war was over the South acting like a bunch of little kids and wanting to destroy democracy. Slavery was a factor, but not the cause.


Even though the U.S. is a Republic, and the founding fathers abhorred Democracy.

User avatar
Sedikal
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9176
Founded: Feb 15, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Sedikal » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:35 pm

Now guys history major so I obviously know everything. But no seriously it was at first a war to bring the separatist back into the union.
Nice Little Quotes
“Kindness is the golden chain by which society is bound together.”
-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Yet human intelligence has another force, too: the sense of urgency that gives human smarts their drive. Perhaps our intelligence is not just ended by our mortality; to a great degree, it is our mortality.
-Adam Gopnik

Fighting for peace, is like fucking for chastity
-Stephen King


Proud Member of the New Democrats in the NSG Senate
Political Compass of Sedikal
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS!

Turchynov/Yatsenyuk
Russia Out Of Crimea

User avatar
Zweite Alaje
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9551
Founded: Oct 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Zweite Alaje » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:36 pm

The Civil War was a complex situation actually, and slavery was only part of a web of interconnecting issues.

1.) Economic disparity between the north and south
2.) Differences in economic goals
3.) Slavery vs Abolition
4.) Federal rights vs States Rights
Geist über Körper, durch Aktionen Ehrung
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Progressivism, Pantheism, Gaia Hypothesis, Centrism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Modern Feminism
I've been: Communist , Fascist
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.18

NIFP
Please don't call me Zweite, Al or Ally is fine. Add 2548 posts, founded Oct 06, 2011

User avatar
Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:36 pm

Greenvul wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:The war was because Lincoln was elected and the South didn't like that, so rather than tough it up and live in a democratic society they decided they should get special treatment and not have to play by the rules they didn't like. The North thought that was as stupid as it sounds and so the South left like the cowards they were, and still are. The war was over the South acting like a bunch of little kids and wanting to destroy democracy. Slavery was a factor, but not the cause.


Even though the U.S. is a Republic, and the founding fathers abhorred Democracy.


Representative Democracy is a mix, Republics have never worked and never will work and neither will Democracies. Thus the mixture.

User avatar
Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:37 pm

Zweite Alaje wrote:The Civil War was a complex situation actually, and slavery was only part of a web of interconnecting issues.

1.) Economic disparity between the north and south
2.) Differences in economic goals
3.) Slavery vs Abolition
4.) Federal rights vs States Rights

Pretty much how I understand it.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

User avatar
Zweite Alaje
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9551
Founded: Oct 30, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Zweite Alaje » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:38 pm

Ensiferum wrote:The war was because Lincoln was elected and the South didn't like that, so rather than tough it up and live in a democratic society they decided they should get special treatment and not have to play by the rules they didn't like. The North thought that was as stupid as it sounds and so the South left like the cowards they were, and still are. The war was over the South acting like a bunch of little kids and wanting to destroy democracy. Slavery was a factor, but not the cause.

We Southerners are NOT cowards!!!

We love this nation has much as anyone else. The Southerners at the time of the Civil War were doing what the felt was right to protect their local interests.
Geist über Körper, durch Aktionen Ehrung
Likes: Corporatism, Market Socialism, Syndicalism, Progressivism, Pantheism, Gaia Hypothesis, Centrism, Dirigisme

Dislikes: Capitalism, Liberalism, Conservatism, Libertarianism, Abortion, Modern Feminism
I've been: Communist , Fascist
Economic Left/Right: -7.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 1.18

NIFP
Please don't call me Zweite, Al or Ally is fine. Add 2548 posts, founded Oct 06, 2011

User avatar
PrussianEmpire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 907
Founded: Dec 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby PrussianEmpire » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:39 pm

The Northern States butting into the Southern States. The South was on track to due away w/ slavery, but when the North started yelling at them to do it faster, it turned off a lot of people. Also, States Rights
—« The PrussianEmpire From The East Pacific »—

The contents of the above post represent the views of Exshaw, the Imperial Legion, the United Defenders League, the Founderless Regions Alliance, the New Inquisition, the Black Hawks, the North Pacific, the Alliance Defense Network, the Atlantic Central Command, Francos Spain, Dwight Eisenhower, and the 1998 New York Yankees.

User avatar
Seleucas
Minister
 
Posts: 3203
Founded: Jun 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Seleucas » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:39 pm

Greenvul wrote:Slavery was a dying institution. Not to mention the fact that Lincoln was trying to pass the 13th amendment. No not "that" 13th amendment, the original one. You know, the one that bared the Federal government from forcing a state to make slavery illegal. Yes, Lincoln really did try to get that amendment passed, but it failed because "Oh my" the southern states seceded. Why would the southern states secede over slavery if an amendment protecting slavery was being passed? It had more to do with "Let us govern ourselves you tyrant" than anything else.

When Confederate POW's were asked by Union soldiers why they were fighting, their reply was "Because you were here."


Corwin Amendment, was what it was called.

And Lincoln was very accommodating in terms of slavery, to boot. "I should be exceedingly glad to know that there would never be another slave State admitted into the Union; but I must add, that if slavery shall be kept out of the Territories during the territorial existence of any one given Territory, and then the people shall, having a fair chance and a clear field, when they come to adopt the Constitution, do such an extraordinary thing as to adopt a Slave Constitution, uninfluenced by the actual presence of the institution among them, I see no alternative, if we own the country, but to admit them into the Union." Not exactly the words of a firebrand abolitionist, and he offered plenty of outs for the South during the Civil War as well.

(Not to suggest the South was particularly noble in what it was doing, but I think the issue would have been better resolved by the North washing its hands of participation with slavery and a slave/abolitionist insurgency in the South. Not through conducting one of the bloodiest wars of its time that simply replaced slavery with peonage.)
Like an unscrupulous boyfriend, Obama lies about pulling out after fucking you.
-Tokyoni

The State never intentionally confronts a man's sense, intellectual or moral, but only his body, his senses. It is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced.
- Henry David Thoreau

Oh please. Those people should grow up. The South will NOT rise again.

The Union will instead, fall.
-Distruzio

Dealing with a banking crisis was difficult enough, but at least there were public-sector balance sheets on to which the problems could be moved. Once you move into sovereign debt, there is no answer; there’s no backstop.
-Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England

Right: 10.00
Libertarian: 9.9
Non-interventionist: 10
Cultural Liberal: 6.83

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:40 pm

Greenvul wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:The war was because Lincoln was elected and the South didn't like that, so rather than tough it up and live in a democratic society they decided they should get special treatment and not have to play by the rules they didn't like. The North thought that was as stupid as it sounds and so the South left like the cowards they were, and still are. The war was over the South acting like a bunch of little kids and wanting to destroy democracy. Slavery was a factor, but not the cause.


Even though the U.S. is a Republic, and the founding fathers abhorred Democracy.

It is a DEMOCRATIC Republic and the FF's did not 'abhor democracy'.

User avatar
South Romagnia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1707
Founded: Oct 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby South Romagnia » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:40 pm

With Greenvul and Zwiete on this. Sure, slavery was one issue, but there were many others, such as social, economic, and political differences, not to mention Federal V States rights and what-not.
Viva Fascismo! Viva Mussolini!Viva Romagnia!

"It is humiliating to remain with our hands folded while others write history. It matters little who wins. To make a people great, it is necessary to send them to battle even if you have to kick them in the pants. That is what I shall do." - Benito Mussolini
My main: Torsiedelle

User avatar
Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:40 pm

PrussianEmpire wrote:The Northern States butting into the Southern States. The South was on track to due away w/ slavery, but when the North started yelling at them to do it faster, it turned off a lot of people. Also, States Rights

Getting rid of slavery faster is good.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

User avatar
New haven america
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44088
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:40 pm

Slavery :palm:
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2024

That's all folks~

User avatar
Ensiferum
Diplomat
 
Posts: 922
Founded: Feb 17, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Ensiferum » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:41 pm

Zweite Alaje wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:The war was because Lincoln was elected and the South didn't like that, so rather than tough it up and live in a democratic society they decided they should get special treatment and not have to play by the rules they didn't like. The North thought that was as stupid as it sounds and so the South left like the cowards they were, and still are. The war was over the South acting like a bunch of little kids and wanting to destroy democracy. Slavery was a factor, but not the cause.

We Southerners are NOT cowards!!!

We love this nation has much as anyone else. The Southerners at the time of the Civil War were doing what the felt was right to protect their local interests.


Thus why instead of playing by the rules you ragequit and kill your countrymen. And continue to do so. Seems legit. Sure do love your country. Cowards, the whole lot of them South of the Mason-Dixon.

User avatar
Seleucas
Minister
 
Posts: 3203
Founded: Jun 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Seleucas » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:41 pm

Zweite Alaje wrote:4.) Federal rights vs States Rights


Interestingly enough, the South had a solid grip on the Federal judiciary and tried to ensure Federal support of slavery, while many Northern states tried to exercise their states' rights by nullifying or undermining the Fugitive Slave Act.
Like an unscrupulous boyfriend, Obama lies about pulling out after fucking you.
-Tokyoni

The State never intentionally confronts a man's sense, intellectual or moral, but only his body, his senses. It is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength. I was not born to be forced.
- Henry David Thoreau

Oh please. Those people should grow up. The South will NOT rise again.

The Union will instead, fall.
-Distruzio

Dealing with a banking crisis was difficult enough, but at least there were public-sector balance sheets on to which the problems could be moved. Once you move into sovereign debt, there is no answer; there’s no backstop.
-Mervyn King, Governor of the Bank of England

Right: 10.00
Libertarian: 9.9
Non-interventionist: 10
Cultural Liberal: 6.83

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:41 pm

PrussianEmpire wrote:The Northern States butting into the Southern States. The South was on track to due away w/ slavery, but when the North started yelling at them to do it faster, it turned off a lot of people. Also, States Rights

What is this bullshit?

User avatar
Desperate Measures
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10149
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Desperate Measures » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:42 pm

Genivaria wrote:
PrussianEmpire wrote:The Northern States butting into the Southern States. The South was on track to due away w/ slavery, but when the North started yelling at them to do it faster, it turned off a lot of people. Also, States Rights

What is this bullshit?

Revisionist history.
"My loathings are simple: stupidity, oppression, crime, cruelty, soft music."
- Vladimir Nabokov US (1899 - 1977)
Also, me.
“Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky Russian Novelist and Writer, 1821-1881
"All Clock Faces Are Wrong." - Gene Ray, Prophet(?) http://www.timecube.com
A simplified maxim on the subject states "An atheist would say, 'I don't believe God exists'; an agnostic would say, 'I don't know whether or not God exists'; and an ignostic would say, 'I don't know what you mean when you say, "God exists" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

User avatar
Mike the Progressive
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27544
Founded: Oct 27, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mike the Progressive » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:43 pm

While regional and cultural differences certainly made a difference, it was interwoven with the issue of slavery.

User avatar
PrussianEmpire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 907
Founded: Dec 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby PrussianEmpire » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:44 pm

Desperate Measures wrote:
Genivaria wrote:What is this bullshit?

Revisionist history.


Just what I learned in school.
—« The PrussianEmpire From The East Pacific »—

The contents of the above post represent the views of Exshaw, the Imperial Legion, the United Defenders League, the Founderless Regions Alliance, the New Inquisition, the Black Hawks, the North Pacific, the Alliance Defense Network, the Atlantic Central Command, Francos Spain, Dwight Eisenhower, and the 1998 New York Yankees.

User avatar
Genivaria
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 69943
Founded: Mar 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Genivaria » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:45 pm

PrussianEmpire wrote:
Desperate Measures wrote:Revisionist history.


Just what I learned in school.

Oh dear god. Where Tennessee? Alabama? Or did Texas introduce new bullshit after I graduated?

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: East Nivosea, Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Shrillland

Advertisement

Remove ads