by The Archregimancy » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:15 am
by ThisIsNotToronina » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:16 am
ThisIsNotToronina wrote:FIRST!
The Zeonic States wrote:Bojikami wrote:Again, the US making a crap decision. I understand the losses that would be sustained from a land invasion, but what is better? Thousands of people dying who signed up to die for their country, or thousands of innocents?
Some times a thousand people must die so a million can live.
by The Archregimancy » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:19 am
ThisIsNotToronina wrote:FIRST!
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:24 am
by Soviet Ruk-Tsan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:25 am
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:26 am
Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote:I'll get something rolling then. First off, I support Palestine. I grow increasingly weary of the treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israelis. I have a deep hatred for Zionists. An example of behavior that is in my opinion unacceptable is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=glVVcDhHt2E.
by Yorkopolis » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:34 am
Disserbia wrote:Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote:I'll get something rolling then. First off, I support Palestine. I grow increasingly weary of the treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israelis. I have a deep hatred for Zionists. An example of behavior that is in my opinion unacceptable is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=glVVcDhHt2E.
When you say zionists, do you mean people that think that the Israeli state should exist? I don't see why anyone can't be both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel.
by Soviet Ruk-Tsan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:36 am
Disserbia wrote:Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote:I'll get something rolling then. First off, I support Palestine. I grow increasingly weary of the treatment of the Palestinian people by the Israelis. I have a deep hatred for Zionists. An example of behavior that is in my opinion unacceptable is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=glVVcDhHt2E.
When you say zionists, do you mean people that think that the Israeli state should exist? I don't see why anyone can't be both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel.
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:40 am
Yorkopolis wrote:Disserbia wrote:When you say zionists, do you mean people that think that the Israeli state should exist? I don't see why anyone can't be both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel.
Well, a reason people wouldn't be both (especially Zionists) is because Zionists believe that all of Palestine is basically Israel, a land that is, so to say, "reserved" for the Jewish people. Therefore, some of the more radical Zionists around, as well as Revisionist Zionists, do believe that Palestine has no right to exist and that Arabs/Palestinians are, to put it, "Untermenschen". It's one of the main reasons why I'm anti-Zionists. If they weren't as horribly racist as they are, I may have even considered seeing Israel as a legitimate state an option, but I don't at this moment.
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:44 am
Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote:Disserbia wrote:When you say zionists, do you mean people that think that the Israeli state should exist? I don't see why anyone can't be both pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel.
Well, not really Zionists. I mean the really right-wing, Israeli supporting, human decency-violating pieces of crap that keep cropping up. The reason someone can't be both, in my opinion at least, is that Palestinians want their home, their freedom back, they want their nation back. Israel only exists because of land that used to belong to Palestine. Also, both sides have done some pretty serious things to each other, so there is a bit of a grudge.
by The Archregimancy » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:45 am
Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote: I mean the really right-wing, Israeli supporting, human decency-violating pieces of crap.
by Soviet Ruk-Tsan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:51 am
The Archregimancy wrote:Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote: I mean the really right-wing, Israeli supporting, human decency-violating pieces of crap.
This is precisely the sort of language that we're trying to avoid in this brave new world of mod-sanctioned threads on the subject.
Remember: Let's be polite, and let's try and tone down the rhetoric.
Thank you.
Disserbia wrote:Yorkopolis wrote:Well, a reason people wouldn't be both (especially Zionists) is because Zionists believe that all of Palestine is basically Israel, a land that is, so to say, "reserved" for the Jewish people. Therefore, some of the more radical Zionists around, as well as Revisionist Zionists, do believe that Palestine has no right to exist and that Arabs/Palestinians are, to put it, "Untermenschen". It's one of the main reasons why I'm anti-Zionists. If they weren't as horribly racist as they are, I may have even considered seeing Israel as a legitimate state an option, but I don't at this moment.
That is a horrible false stereotype of zionists, and that is your problem, not Israel's or Palestine's. Israel has the right to exist, if not because the land was bought legitimately from Arab landlords, if not because Jews and Palestinians did get alone for some time there, if not because it existed de facto since the early 20th century if not because the UN and almost every member state officially recognized it, if not all that, it is a legitimate state because all people living there have the same rights as human beings, not just one group or the other and because most reasonable Palestinians concede it's right to exist.
by Wamitoria » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:58 am
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:04 am
Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote:The Archregimancy wrote:
This is precisely the sort of language that we're trying to avoid in this brave new world of mod-sanctioned threads on the subject.
Remember: Let's be polite, and let's try and tone down the rhetoric.
Thank you.
My apologies. I will attempt to avoid such language in future.Disserbia wrote:That is a horrible false stereotype of zionists, and that is your problem, not Israel's or Palestine's. Israel has the right to exist, if not because the land was bought legitimately from Arab landlords, if not because Jews and Palestinians did get alone for some time there, if not because it existed de facto since the early 20th century if not because the UN and almost every member state officially recognized it, if not all that, it is a legitimate state because all people living there have the same rights as human beings, not just one group or the other and because most reasonable Palestinians concede it's right to exist.
1: Landlords don't always represent the people living on the land, and as far as I'm aware, do not represent a national government, which should be the body giving away land.
2: When the UN held the vote for having Palestine, a Jewish community, and Jerusalem as their own things, the Jews and most of the UN agreed, but the Arab League and Arab Higher Committee of Palestine rejected it. (understandably, they were being forced to give up half their nation and their capital for a people they had done nothing to.)
3: Even after the "even split" of Palestine and Israel took place, that didn't last long. Here's an interesting image for you.
by Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:07 am
by Soviet Ruk-Tsan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:10 am
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:13 am
Soviet Ruk-Tsan wrote:Well, I would rather think that the people of the land not wanting them, and the government not wanting them would pretty much mean they shouldn't be there.
by Soviet Ruk-Tsan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:17 am
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:18 am
by Wamitoria » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:19 am
by Disserbia » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:21 am
by Wamitoria » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:22 am
Disserbia wrote:Wamitoria wrote:Britain was the lawful owner of the land. Therefore, we must reconstitute the British Empire.
That's not really quite true either. Britain claimed to have legitimate ownership of the land which they used to confuse the hell out of everyone and create this mess in the first place in exchange for military are financial support during ww1.
by Soviet Ruk-Tsan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:23 am
Disserbia wrote:Wamitoria wrote:Britain was the lawful owner of the land. Therefore, we must reconstitute the British Empire.
That's not really quite true either. Britain claimed to have legitimate ownership of the land which they used to confuse the hell out of everyone and create this mess in the first place in exchange for military are financial support during ww1.
by Beloyukto » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:24 am
by Soviet Ruk-Tsan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:26 am
Beloyukto wrote:It just doesn't make sense to bring every Jew form far and wide and put them in Palestine then make a state for them and flood it with arms and money, then veto every single UN resolution to stop it from arresting Palestinians, occupying others' land, and sending an airstrike here once every while. IMHO, no peace negotiations will ever succeed in the PAL/ISR conflict because, well... What was taken by force, will be returned by force.
Don't tell me it's their own land. Arabs lived there 8000 years ago, and it was Arabs who built the city of Jerusalem.
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