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A new ideology for everyone

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Priory Academy USSR
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Founded: May 04, 2012
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Postby Priory Academy USSR » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:19 am

The United Colonies of Earth wrote:Can someone explain to me how a Value Added Tax works, or do I have to look it up?


An extra tax on most items, excluding basics.

For example, with 20% VAT, a £10 item will have a £2 tax on it.
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Ovisterra
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Postby Ovisterra » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
A high VAT is a tax on the poor.

Ahhhhhh I should stop with this political shit no one truely undrestands my ideas.


I think it's more likely that you don't understand what you're talking about. I understand your ideas perfectly, and am therefore able to tell you they're poorly defined and won't work, let alone be accepted by everyone.
Last edited by Ovisterra on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:20 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
A high VAT is a tax on the poor.

Ahhhhhh I should stop with this political shit no one truely undrestands my ideas.


Then take your time to explain them.
The Blaatschapen should resign

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New Vineland
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Founded: Oct 24, 2012
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Postby New Vineland » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:22 am

I'm curious. Elaborate.
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Camaragua
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Postby Camaragua » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:22 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:I'm Melvin and i'm 16 years old.

I want to make up a new ideology where everyone will be happy.
With Free education and free Healthcare.

With a government that helps the people in need.

That does not take our freedom where you can be free with low taxes.

A medium sized government.

A society where all classes work together and without hate and intolerance and for peace and security.

Does this exist today or not?

The government need money to pay everyone, how will they gain their money?
And how will you stop intolerance, there will be always somebody who is intolerant and if you ban it it will ban the freedom of expression :/
Last edited by Camaragua on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Since Lumumba is dead he stopped being a person. He became whole Africa.
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Kleomentia
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Postby Kleomentia » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 am

Im still a unhappy slave owner, deal with me.
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San Leggera
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Postby San Leggera » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
A high VAT is a tax on the poor.

Ahhhhhh I should stop with this political shit no one truely undrestands my ideas.

It's actually a lot closer to "I don't understand why my ideas won't work in reality!!!"
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Empire of Vlissingen
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Founded: Jul 16, 2012
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Postby Empire of Vlissingen » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 am

I'm for a mix between communism and capitalism.
The freedom of the West.
And the Equality of Communism.

I'm for a fair society where the government helps you if you really need it.

I think that we should work together to fix the economy by hard work and not hating people.

I'm for helping everyone if possible and everyone should live freely and not be opressed.
I live in The Netherlands.
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Oneracon
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Postby Oneracon » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am

Camaragua wrote:And how will you stop intolerance there will be always somebody who is intolerant and if you ban it it will ban the freedom of expression :/


I was actually about to bring that up.

Intolerance and hate don't just magically disappear, they are always present. The only way to prevent the dissemination of those negative attitudes are by infringing on the freedom of expression to ban hate speech and discrimination.
Last edited by Oneracon on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ovisterra
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Postby Ovisterra » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:I'm for a mix between communism and capitalism.
The freedom of the West.
And the Equality of Communism.

I'm for a fair society where the government helps you if you really need it.

I think that we should work together to fix the economy by hard work and not hating people.

I'm for helping everyone if possible and everyone should live freely and not be opressed.


Define "living freely". Also, how do you plan to end hate?
Removing the text from people's sigs doesn't make it any less true. I stand with Yalta.

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Camaragua
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Postby Camaragua » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:24 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:I'm for a mix between communism and capitalism.
The freedom of the West.
And the Equality of Communism.

I'm for a fair society where the government helps you if you really need it.

I think that we should work together to fix the economy by hard work and not hating people.

I'm for helping everyone if possible and everyone should live freely and not be opressed.

But the government has to pay the people who help the others and the world first problem is money :0
Since Lumumba is dead he stopped being a person. He became whole Africa.
-Jean-Paul Sartre

Chávez helped us to find together. Now we have to accomplish it without him.
R.I.P.

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Camaragua
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Postby Camaragua » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:25 am

Oneracon wrote:
Camaragua wrote:And how will you stop intolerance there will be always somebody who is intolerant and if you ban it it will ban the freedom of expression :/


I was actually about to bring that up.

Intolerance and hate don't just magically disappear, they are always present. The only way to prevent the dissemination of those negative attitudes are by infringing on the freedom of expression to ban hate speech and discrimination.

You got it!!
Since Lumumba is dead he stopped being a person. He became whole Africa.
-Jean-Paul Sartre

Chávez helped us to find together. Now we have to accomplish it without him.
R.I.P.

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Lerodan Chinamerica
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Postby Lerodan Chinamerica » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:25 am

Quite a vague idea, really. Sounds like socialism, but the low taxes thing conflicts with it.

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Quintium
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Founded: May 23, 2012
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Postby Quintium » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:26 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:With Free education and free Healthcare.


Semi-acceptable. Free healthcare, but only in cases where treatment is for something you did not cause. If you get drunk and pee all over an electric wire, or challenge a boxing champion to a fight, or take an overdose of party pills, you should pay out of your own pockets. If you have cancer or anything like that, I'm alright with paying for your treatment.

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:With a government that helps the people in need.


And only those in need? I like that. Get the government out of the subsidy business.

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:That does not take our freedom where you can be free with low taxes.


Agreed! The government is fundamentally evil, and limiting its power over our personal and financial lives is usually a good thing.
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Risottia
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:27 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:I'm Melvin and i'm 16 years old. I want to make up a new ideology where everyone will be happy.

I assume you mean "a state, run according to a new ideology, where everyone will be happy".

With Free education and free Healthcare.
With a government that helps the people in need.
That does not take our freedom where you can be free with low taxes.

TANSTAAFL. Who's paying for the free education, the free healthcare, the welfare if you keep the taxes "low"?

A medium sized government.

"Medium" doesn't say a lot. You should detail what the competences and the exclusive prerogatives of the government should be.
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Brition
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Founded: Oct 15, 2012
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Postby Brition » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:28 am

Your ideology existed. It was called the Third Way, and was espoused by Tony Blair and his New Labour party.

The economy died, we aren't allowed to speak our minds, and taxes crept upwards.

In short it doesn't work.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Empire of Vlissingen wrote:30% as medium income tax
with a high VAT to lower the income tax.


A high VAT is a tax on the poor.


Who would have expected - from someone who wants "low" taxes - to actually want the lower classes to face the higher taxation/income ratio while the rich enjoy their income tax discount?
Really. Never seen that before.

:roll:
.

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Empire of Vlissingen
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Founded: Jul 16, 2012
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Postby Empire of Vlissingen » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 am

Ovisterra wrote:
Empire of Vlissingen wrote:I'm for a mix between communism and capitalism.
The freedom of the West.
And the Equality of Communism.

I'm for a fair society where the government helps you if you really need it.

I think that we should work together to fix the economy by hard work and not hating people.

I'm for helping everyone if possible and everyone should live freely and not be opressed.


Define "living freely". Also, how do you plan to end hate?

Freedom of speech and democartic elections and all freedoms we have in Europe.

My plan too end hate is being pacifist and with education programs about all races and classes.
I live in The Netherlands.
Economic Left/Right: 4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.31

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Oneracon
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Founded: Jul 18, 2012
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Postby Oneracon » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:32 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:I'm Melvin and i'm 16 years old.

I want to make up a new ideology where everyone will be happy.
With Free education and free Healthcare.

With a government that helps the people in need.


That does not take our freedom where you can be free with low taxes.

A medium sized government.

A society where all classes work together and without hate and intolerance and for peace and security.


Logically, these are the contradictions.

Red and Blue cannot exist at the same time because welfare requires much more than "low taxes" (though with the previously mentioned "medium taxes" it might possible);

Orange and Green cannot exist at the same time because a government must make minor infringements on rights to protect the people from hate and intolerance (i.e. banning hate speech, banning discrimination in housing/care/services, etc.)
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Ovisterra
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Postby Ovisterra » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:32 am

Empire of Vlissingen wrote:
Ovisterra wrote:
Define "living freely". Also, how do you plan to end hate?

Freedom of speech


Vague. Will there be restrictions on it?

and democartic elections


What type?

and all freedoms we have in Europe.


Different countries in Europe have different freedoms.

My plan too end hate is being pacifist and with education programs about all races and classes.


How will that end hate?
Removing the text from people's sigs doesn't make it any less true. I stand with Yalta.

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Zottistan
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Postby Zottistan » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:33 am

There will never be an ideology that makes everybody happy.

Ever.
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The New Sea Territory
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Founded: Dec 13, 2012
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Postby The New Sea Territory » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:34 am

Ideologies need details. How can low taxes = defense and free healthcare?
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Vatican Supremacy
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Founded: Feb 14, 2013
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Postby Vatican Supremacy » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:34 am

All I want is a world without filthy liberals who try to take away my religion and my guns

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Risottia
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:34 am

Ovisterra wrote:
and all freedoms we have in Europe.

Different countries in Europe have different freedoms.


Although all CoE citizens enjoy the same basic rights detailed in the ECHR. I guess that would be nice for starters.
.

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Risottia
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:35 am

Vatican Supremacy wrote:All I want is a world without filthy liberals who try to take away my religion and my guns

Not sure if sarcastic or trollish.
.

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