Golden Dawn in Greece

[Divair]

I couldn't see it because, oh yeah, you failed to make simple and proper presentation, but, again, I forgave you for it.

Not my problem you're incapable of extrapolating from incomplete data, but please, do go on and keep dragging the thread further off course.

[DrakoBlaria]

Thanks for the support.Right now we are the garbage can of europe.When we fall all these immigrants will come to you.



Still,the crime caused by immigrants is even higher.They are protecting greek people in areas where muslims dont allow the GREEKS to leave their houses



National,not ethnic

They are coming, I am in the USA and we are importing thousands of people that hold religious views which are dangerous. Thankfully the USA is getting most of their immigrants from Mexico and S. America which have closer cultural ties and share a western culture. We are also getting more (not enough though) from China and Vietnam. We should end all immigration from the Middle East but anybody that supports this view is branded racist (including me). Latin Americans may save the USA from the Islamic Facism.

Europe is in much worse shape than the USA though.

The leader of the Egyptian Muslim Community (3 legal guys,rest are illegal) said or PM is a racist and that he should watch out.This guy is a lot of things,traitour is one but he is not a racist if he was that would have been a good thing in this situation.Oh,so this egyptian kinda threatened us inside our own nation.

[Yorkopolis]

They should win. And, hopefully, hang the bankers and liberal elites by their necks. The greediness of international financiers and the unscrupulous and immoral usury practises have created the economic problem; Golden Dawn are only taking advantage of a situation that could've been prevented.

I am also disgusted at the supposed communists and socialists that, apparently, prefer neo-liberalism, economic oppression and corrupt government over a group that feeds the poor and is hoping to rectify the problem. I can see why a communist might not like the GD's specific ideology; but they should prefer it to the system they're looking to replace.

While I agree that the bankers and elites should be punished, I don't feel a party that has openly white supremacist members should be ruling Greece, or any particular nation at that. I haven't seen their program, but from the likes of it, Golden Dawn really aren't nice guys and I've heard many shit about their leaders giving out pamphlets of "hail Hitler for 1000 years after" and stuff like that. That's not the kind of stuff I'm waiting for here, to be quite honest.

[Abatael]

I couldn't see it because, oh yeah, you failed to make simple and proper presentation, but, again, I forgave you for it.

Not my problem you're incapable of extrapolating from incomplete data, but please, do go on and keep dragging the thread further off course.

It's funny how you complain I'm "dragging the thread further off course," as if I'm exclusively culpable, while you are right down there with me. So, I guess, right back at you.

[DrakoBlaria]

I support the Greek nationalism thing and killing the Turks but the Nazism part nein

Yeah,I find it retarted how a greek ethnicist can also be a nazi but oh well.They are still better than the guys who betrayed cyprus,the ones who say Imia is turkish and the ones who approve of the 'Macedonian' name.

[Freiheit Reich]

They are coming, I am in the USA and we are importing thousands of people that hold religious views which are dangerous. Thankfully the USA is getting most of their immigrants from Mexico and S. America which have closer cultural ties and share a western culture. We are also getting more (not enough though) from China and Vietnam. We should end all immigration from the Middle East but anybody that supports this view is branded racist (including me). Latin Americans may save the USA from the Islamic Facism.

Europe is in much worse shape than the USA though.

The leader of the Egyptian Muslim Community (3 legal guys,rest are illegal) said or PM is a racist and that he should watch out.This guy is a lot of things,traitour is one but he is not a racist if he was that would have been a good thing in this situation.Oh,so this egyptian kinda threatened us inside our own nation.

Many Americans call Europeans a P-word (meaning wimp). No offense but it is true. France, UK, and Sweden have let Muslim immigrants walk all over them. A good example is the French riots. Sarkozy had an excuse for mass deportations and did nothing. I guess a few more train bombings will make Europeans wake up (maybe).

My guess is this Egyptian is treated as a hero by his fellow Egyptian brothers. Calling the leader racist after being welcomed into the country is insulting. I worked with Iraqis and know their attitude. They are generally ungrateful (even when provided a well paid job). The Egyptian man's attitude is typical.

[Kvatchdom]

Terrible people, terrible politics, terrible opinions. Not my kind of people at all.

[Risottia]

Many Americans call Europeans a P-word (meaning wimp). No offense but it is true. France, UK, and Sweden have let Muslim immigrants walk all over them. A good example is the French riots. Sarkozy had an excuse for mass deportations and did nothing. I guess a few more train bombings will make Europeans wake up (maybe).

I guess less LSD in your coffee will make you connect a bit more tightly with reality.

[DrakoBlaria]

The leader of the Egyptian Muslim Community (3 legal guys,rest are illegal) said or PM is a racist and that he should watch out.This guy is a lot of things,traitour is one but he is not a racist if he was that would have been a good thing in this situation.Oh,so this egyptian kinda threatened us inside our own nation.

Many Americans call Europeans a P-word (meaning wimp). No offense but it is true. France, UK, and Sweden have let Muslim immigrants walk all over them. A good example is the French riots. Sarkozy had an excuse for mass deportations and did nothing. I guess a few more train bombings will make Europeans wake up (maybe).

My guess is this Egyptian is treated as a hero by his fellow Egyptian brothers. Calling the leader racist after being welcomed into the country is insulting. I worked with Iraqis and know their attitude. They are generally ungrateful (even when provided a well paid job). The Egyptian man's attitude is typical.

Media keeps talking about humble egyptian fishermen.They forget that the fish are stolen and that this men came here illegally.

There are just too many muslims here.In greece there about 12.000.000 people with greek cizitienship (about 1.500.000 are albanian) and there are estimated about 3.000.000 illegal immigrants (more coming every day).All this in the country with the highest youth unemployment in Europe (56%)

The muslims are demanding we build them mosques.What does the LEFT have to say about this? 'We are all humans of the middle class and have to fight the bosses'

[The Darwinian People]

They should win. And, hopefully, hang the bankers and liberal elites by their necks. The greediness of international financiers and the unscrupulous and immoral usury practises have created the economic problem; Golden Dawn are only taking advantage of a situation that could've been prevented.

I am also disgusted at the supposed communists and socialists that, apparently, prefer neo-liberalism, economic oppression and corrupt government over a group that feeds the poor and is hoping to rectify the problem. I can see why a communist might not like the GD's specific ideology; but they should prefer it to the system they're looking to replace.

While I agree that the bankers and elites should be punished, I don't feel a party that has openly white supremacist members should be ruling Greece, or any particular nation at that. I haven't seen their program, but from the likes of it, Golden Dawn really aren't nice guys and I've heard many shit about their leaders giving out pamphlets of "hail Hitler for 1000 years after" and stuff like that. That's not the kind of stuff I'm waiting for here, to be quite honest.

My point is, they're doing something about it. They're connecting with people because they're on the street, handing out food and water. The bigger they get the moderated they're opinions are going to become and, in the end, isn't any kind of socialism better than none at all?

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

While I agree that the bankers and elites should be punished, I don't feel a party that has openly white supremacist members should be ruling Greece, or any particular nation at that. I haven't seen their program, but from the likes of it, Golden Dawn really aren't nice guys and I've heard many shit about their leaders giving out pamphlets of "hail Hitler for 1000 years after" and stuff like that. That's not the kind of stuff I'm waiting for here, to be quite honest.

My point is, they're doing something about it. They're connecting with people because they're on the street, handing out food and water. The bigger they get the moderated they're opinions are going to become and, in the end, isn't any kind of socialism better than none at all?

No. Because oppression, racism, bigotry and hatred are wrong whether they come from left or right.

[Risottia]

They're connecting with people because they're on the street, handing out food and water.

Aka bribing.

And let's not forget how they attack systematically immigrants and non-Greeks.

[Yorkopolis]

Many Americans call Europeans a P-word (meaning wimp). No offense but it is true. France, UK, and Sweden have let Muslim immigrants walk all over them. A good example is the French riots. Sarkozy had an excuse for mass deportations and did nothing. I guess a few more train bombings will make Europeans wake up (maybe).

You clearly have no idea, do you? Immigrants living here really aren't "walking all over us" as you portray them to be. In fact there is a major anti-immigrant party in my country, we call it the "Partij voor de Vrijheid", which openly uses anti-immigrant rhetoric that borderlines inciting mass-hatred.

My guess is this Egyptian is treated as a hero by his fellow Egyptian brothers. Calling the leader racist after being welcomed into the country is insulting. I worked with Iraqis and know their attitude. They are generally ungrateful (even when provided a well paid job). The Egyptian man's attitude is typical.

And now we're going to be racist too? "I worked with a few people and they acted so-and-so, so every man and woman of this group/race/thing is exactly the same!" type of logic. So, you met a few lazy Iraqis, does that mean they are all lazy? And we're going to be generalizing these people's attitude as typical as well. You should have a look at these countries. Iraqis obviously don't come here to just sit it out. Did you ever see the situation in Iraq before and after the US invasion? Before, it was relatively stable and the Iraqi standard of living was fairly high, but after? Those people lost everything they had, because the US just had to fuck them all over. Of course they come here! Their countries have been fucked all over and then the countries who fucked their countries all over refuse them because they're immigrants? Yeah, no. We don't live in that kind of world, at least not anymore.

And Islamic Fascism? Oh man, are we going into that kinda bloody conspiracy shit again? That's so creative.

[The Darwinian People]

They're connecting with people because they're on the street, handing out food and water.

Aka bribing.

And let's not forget how they attack systematically immigrants and non-Greeks.

When did an act of charity become bribing? And, in any case, what does that matter? If someone was going to help me feed my family then you're damn right they'd get my vote.

What do you expect? They're ethnic nationalists.

[The Darwinian People]

My point is, they're doing something about it. They're connecting with people because they're on the street, handing out food and water. The bigger they get the moderated they're opinions are going to become and, in the end, isn't any kind of socialism better than none at all?

No. Because oppression, racism, bigotry and hatred are wrong whether they come from left or right.

So, what I am hearing (because my question was any versus none), is that Capitalism is fine as long as it's not racist.

[Scholencia]

So what is your opinion?

I support the leaving of Greece from the EU because it is a threat to the economy of the EU and European countries. Greece is corrupt, the citizens dont care about controlling of spending money and they fabricate their working hours. Guido Westerwelle, the german foreignminister was right when he called Greece a shithole without end.

I support the Golden dawn because they will force Greece to leave the EU and the will make the bothers closed which enables Greek lower class immigrants to enter the EU.

Besides, Greece isnt Europe, looking their mentality I would say they belong to the Middle East.

Many Americans call Western Europeans a P-word (meaning wimp). No offense but it is true. France, UK, and Sweden have let Muslim immigrants walk all over them. A good example is the French riots. Sarkozy had an excuse for mass deportations and did nothing. I guess a few more train bombings will make Europeans wake up (maybe).

There fixed

[Choronzon]

Every time I see mention of the Golden Dawn party I think of a completely different, way cooler Golden Dawn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_O ... olden_Dawn

This?

Bingo

[Risottia]

When did an act of charity become bribing?

When it's made by a political party who couples that "charity" with political propaganda.

And, in any case, what does that matter? If someone was going to help me feed my family then you're damn right they'd get my vote.

If your vote can be bought you're not a good citizen.

What do you expect? They're ethnic nationalists.

I expect them to snuff it.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

No. Because oppression, racism, bigotry and hatred are wrong whether they come from left or right.

So, what I am hearing (because my question was any versus none), is that Capitalism is fine as long as it's not racist.

In the question "Is any kind of socialism better than none at all," then the answer is quite obviously no, because "Any kind of socialism" implies Marxist-Leninists, Maoists and their ilk. Who are more oppressive than Western European capitalist states.

So what I'm saying is that European-style capitalism is not as bad as Marxism-Leninism and Maoism, regardless of my distaste for said capitalism. Democratic socialism is lovely, as are communism and Luxemburgism and, to a lesser extent, Trotskyism.

[Hippostania]

I'm not a big fan of them, but they're certainly better than SYRIZA and KKE.

[Freiheit Reich]

Many Americans call Europeans a P-word (meaning wimp). No offense but it is true. France, UK, and Sweden have let Muslim immigrants walk all over them. A good example is the French riots. Sarkozy had an excuse for mass deportations and did nothing. I guess a few more train bombings will make Europeans wake up (maybe).

You clearly have no idea, do you? Immigrants living here really aren't "walking all over us" as you portray them to be. In fact there is a major anti-immigrant party in my country, we call it the "Partij voor de Vrijheid", which openly uses anti-immigrant rhetoric that borderlines inciting mass-hatred.

My guess is this Egyptian is treated as a hero by his fellow Egyptian brothers. Calling the leader racist after being welcomed into the country is insulting. I worked with Iraqis and know their attitude. They are generally ungrateful (even when provided a well paid job). The Egyptian man's attitude is typical.

And now we're going to be racist too? "I worked with a few people and they acted so-and-so, so every man and woman of this group/race/thing is exactly the same!" type of logic. So, you met a few lazy Iraqis, does that mean they are all lazy? And we're going to be generalizing these people's attitude as typical as well. You should have a look at these countries. Iraqis obviously don't come here to just sit it out. Did you ever see the situation in Iraq before and after the US invasion? Before, it was relatively stable and the Iraqi standard of living was fairly high, but after? Those people lost everything they had, because the US just had to fuck them all over. Of course they come here! Their countries have been fucked all over and then the countries who fucked their countries all over refuse them because they're immigrants? Yeah, no. We don't live in that kind of world, at least not anymore.

And Islamic Fascism? Oh man, are we going into that kinda bloody conspiracy shit again? That's so creative.

Does this stability include the 1980's Iran-Iraq war in which countless thousands died (started by Iraq) or the 1990 Iraq invasion of a fellow Arab neighbor Kuwait? What about the gassing of the Kurds, I am sure they would agree that Iraq is a stable and well run country.

Most of these Iraqis came from a cosmopolitan city (Al Nasareah) which is one of the bigger Iraq cities. A smaller villager mike be even worse in his attitudes. They are Shiite (which should mean they are nicer since Saddam was Sunni).

I forgot to mention violent. Iraqis also sent rockets onto the base with the goal of killing Americans. Not very nice to attack the friends who came to liberate them from an oppressive leader. This also shows ingratitude.

[The Darwinian People]

When it's made by a political party who couples that "charity" with political propaganda.

They see people impoverished and desperate and off them what they genuinely believe to be a way out.

If your vote can be bought you're not a good citizen.

Perhaps not but, under those circumstances, it would make be a good father. And, under those circumstances (with my government leaving me to fend for myself because the international financiers it cosied up to have revealed their cold usurious hearts), I wouldn't want to be a good citizen.

I expect them to snuff it.

Nice...

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

I'm not a big fan of them, but they're certainly better than SYRIZA and KKE.

Hippo's true colours shining out: "Golden Dawn, the violent, openly racist, pro-Nazi, ultranationalist homophobic antidemocratic party, is considerably better than SYRIZA, the democratic, non-racist, non-ultranationalist, non-homophobic leftist party."

When are you going to stop pretending that you actually give a shit about anything other than capitalists' freedom to exploit? Because it's a very odd values system that claims to support freedom while preferring neo-Nazis over democrats.

[Risottia]

Perhaps not but, under those circumstances, it would make be a good father. And, under those circumstances (with my government leaving me to fend for myself because the international financiers it cosied up to have revealed their cold usurious hearts), I wouldn't want to be a good citizen.

Perfect. You'd be unfit to vote.

[Conserative Morality]

I don't know much about Golden Dawn, but if it breaks the hyperliberal monotony of the Euro political scene, I welcome it. The US needs a nationalist party badly.

Isn't just about every US party nationalist?