Your thoughts on nationalism

[Libertarian California]

Because I don't have pride in my racial heritage. I have pride in my civic heritage.

I'd like to point out that this is basically what the Romans were, they were cultural bigots not ethnic bigots.
You could be a Gaul, a German, a Celt, or a bloody Greek and be accepted if you adopted Roman customs and paid tribute to the Roman Gods.

I advocate for a melting pot.

The Romans had a skewed version of it.

[Libertarian California]

As I've said before I think cultural unions like the EU and the proposed African Union are the key to a world government.

The EU is a trade union, not a cultural union.

If it was a cultural union, they'd kick Turkey out.

[Moving Forward Inc]

There are rules and communities separate of the state, and yes, trampled on by the state, even though you like to overlook that.
Individuals, when they work against the intentions of the state, are separate from the state: they are no longer sheeple.
As long as there are people fighting against the monopoly of force, there is a fighting chance of removing the state.

There is no possibility of destroying the State.

How could this possibly be true?
All you have to do is kill a few governmental officials, and it's anarchy.
Somalia has no state.

[Genivaria]

I'd like to point out that this is basically what the Romans were, they were cultural bigots not ethnic bigots.
You could be a Gaul, a German, a Celt, or a bloody Greek and be accepted if you adopted Roman customs and paid tribute to the Roman Gods.

I advocate for a melting pot.

The Romans had a skewed version of it.

And thats what any World Government would be.
A gigantic fucking melting pot.

[Abatael]

As I've said before I think cultural unions like the EU and the proposed African Union are the key to a world government.

The EU is a trade union, not a cultural union.

That's wrong. The EU is an economic (in that it has the "Eurozone," the ERM, et caetera) and political union.

[Libertarian California]

There is no possibility of destroying the State.

How could this possibly be true?
All you have to do is kill a few governmental officials, and it's anarchy.
Somalia has no state.

I think the drug lords and guerrilla leaders and their territories around Somalia could be translated as states.

[Zyx]

I can assure you they were. They were all settled by either Americans or a couple Natives.

Then throw in the few hundred Mexican convicts in California. But, those states were essentially settled by the same people. Somalia was not settled by Americans. The culture, the political landscape, the language, the economy, all of it, very different.

Joining a one world government would unite them by either:
1. One cultural-socio-economic system dominates the other
2. Both cultural-socio-economic systems are wiped out and replaced with a new one.

As I've said before I think cultural unions like the EU and the proposed African Union are the key to a world government.

I agree with this. We used to be tribes, then kingdoms, now regional unions, eventually the world.

Honestly, what will probably unite the world is if aliens came and we had to unite to kill them and stuff... we'd finally think of ourselves as one.

[Anarcho Syndicalista]

The State is superior. Without it there would be anarchy and chaos.

There is a decentralized organization within anarchy.

Not as chaotic as you think.

Meanwhile the state is it's own worst enemy.

[Renegade Island]

You're reasoning that the State will always exist, simply because it always has.

That's like people who claimed humans would never fly, because they never had.

translation: You [referring to me, Abatael] never claimed that.

Apologies.

Revision:

always was <=/=> always will be

Better?

[Abatael]

There is no possibility of destroying the State.

How could this possibly be true?
All you have to do is kill a few governmental officials, and it's anarchy.
Somalia has no state.

You transform the State.
Somalia does have a state.

[Abatael]

How could this possibly be true?
All you have to do is kill a few governmental officials, and it's anarchy.
Somalia has no state.

I think the drug lords and guerrilla leaders and their territories around Somalia could be translated as states.

Yes, even then, there is an official state as well.

[Arthurista]

Rhetorical question:

But why? They're not YOUR achievements as an individual. I did not write Hamlet. I did not build the Great Eastern or blow up the Bismarck. What have those achievements got to do with me?

To put it succintly, what is the nexus between historical achievements and the contemporary individual citizen?

By your examples, I'm going to take it you're British.

That being said, whether it's the works of William Shakespeare, the grand industrial achievements of Isambard Kingdom Brunel, or the heroes of the Royal Navy/Fleet Air Arm, each and every one of these men who went before you made the United Kingdom one of those few exceptional nations in history.

By being born British, you have been born into an exceptional nation, and it's somewhat of a sacred duty for you to carry on the tradition of exceptionalism set fourth by those that came before you.

Each of those achievements, whether known or unknown to you, have helped to shape you as an individual, and it's your duty to build up those achievements, and continue to make your nation a beacon of exceptionalism in the world.

Actually, technically I'm an immigrant citizen (Chinese Briton), though you can say I grew up here and the question could easily have applied even if I was borne here.

I can see your arguments about past cultural/historical achievements, though personally I take it as more of a challenge to our generation to surpass what has been achieved before (not much chance of that judging by our education system).

[Abatael]

translation: You [referring to me, Abatael] never claimed that.

Apologies.

Revision:

always was <=/=> always will be

Better?

I don't know what those symbols mean in that particular combination.

[Arthurista]

The EU is a trade union, not a cultural union.

If it was a cultural union, they'd kick Turkey out.

Turkey was never in.

[Genivaria]

As I've said before I think cultural unions like the EU and the proposed African Union are the key to a world government.

I agree with this. We used to be tribes, then kingdoms, now regional unions, eventually the world.

Honestly, what will probably unite the world is if aliens came and we had to unite to kill them and stuff... we'd finally think of ourselves as one.

Its sad that the thing that throughout history has united the US vs the THEM is to introduce another THEM.

[Anarcho Syndicalista]

Global governance telling people that they cannot have a ethnic, cultural, national, or historical identity.

What could go wrong?

[Renegade Island]

How could this possibly be true?
All you have to do is kill a few governmental officials, and it's anarchy.
Somalia has no state.

You transform the State.
Somalia does have a state.

I agree

You cannot overthrow the State.

You have to evolve beyond the need for it.

[Rilhelmia]

translation: You [referring to me, Abatael] never claimed that.

Apologies.

Revision:

always was <=/=> always will be

Better?

The earliest bands of hunter-gatherers were more families than states.

[Genivaria]

If it was a cultural union, they'd kick Turkey out.

Turkey was never in.

Greece: Can I join?
Germany: Fuck off.
Greece: Awwwww...

[Libertarian California]

If it was a cultural union, they'd kick Turkey out.

Turkey was never in.

It's an associate member. Close enough.

[Seleucas]

I don't particularly like the idea of identification by way of an abstract collective, whether by class, nation, whatever. So, of course, I dislike nationalism.

[Genivaria]

You transform the State.
Somalia does have a state.

I agree

You cannot overthrow the State.

You have to evolve beyond the need for it.

Yeah we'll get right on that 'evolving' real quick.

[Abatael]

You transform the State.
Somalia does have a state.

I agree

You cannot overthrow the State.

You have to evolve beyond the need for it.

You can remove and replace the administrators of the State, but the State will always remain.

Edit: And you may replace the rules, by which the State operates, but the State will always remain.

[Moving Forward Inc]

How could this possibly be true?
All you have to do is kill a few governmental officials, and it's anarchy.
Somalia has no state.

I think the drug lords and guerrilla leaders and their territories around Somalia could be translated as states.

There are towns where there is no form of authority and everything is done by martial law, see Xeer.

[Krasivovia]

The State will always exist because someone will always have power over others.