Socialismphobia

[HeresJohnny]

I've been seeing this ad played over and over again on CNN. There is already a thread on it, but that thread is about the commercial itself; this is about the thoughts associated with it.

Why the hell are Americans so petrified of anything bearing any sort of conceivable semblance to socialism? And why is socialism always associated with the USSR? I mean, George Orwell was a socialist for Christ's sake. Here we are, the average Joe and the wealthy separated by a chasm, and this guy and others are warning of socialism coming to the US as if they are prophets. Where do these kinds of thoughts originate? We weren't the only country to see the Cold War, and we sure as hell weren't the closest to the Soviets' stomping grounds. Is this kind of thinking exclusive to America? I've never heard of it being common in Canada or most of Europe.

What is it about the United States that makes it so terrified of socialism, even if what it's afraid of isn't socialism? Personally, I wonder if it is because we were born during a revolution. Perhaps anyone who advocates anything that isn't good ol' fashioned freedom (except for non-Christian non-males) is betraying the ethos of America to a lot of people? What do you think?

[Gauthier]

It's an ages old distortion that's been perpetuated by Republicans. By tying socialism to Stalinism in the minds of the American public, they can use it as a convenient scare word to discourage anything from increasing the tax rates of the 1% to increasing regulations on ethically and financially shaky industries.

[Hatsunia]

Maybe it's the fear of more government control (of production) leading to corruption?

[Mavorpen]

Maybe it's the fear of government control leading to corruption?

It's a good thing socialism doesn't advocate for government control.

[Gauthier]

Maybe it's the fear of more government control (of production) leading to corruption?

Nope, it's the unrealistic fear of America becoming a Stalinist Juche dystopia used to shout down any arguments for sensible moves like increasing the tax rates of the affluent or increasing business regulations.

[Hatsunia]

Maybe it's the fear of government control leading to corruption?

It's a good thing socialism doesn't advocate for government control.

Socialism is commonly taken to mean "government control of the means of production."

I believe in a mixed economy, by the way. I wouldn't want privatized roads, because there would be toll booths just about everywhere.

[Mavorpen]

It's a good thing socialism doesn't advocate for government control.

Socialism is commonly taken to mean "government control of the means of production."

I believe in a mixed economy, by the way.

Commonly=/=correctly.

[Ethel mermania]

i always though socialism meant government direction of capital.

the question then becomes what is socialism, is there a common definition of it?

i thought marx said socialism was a step on the way to communism.

[Mavorpen]

i always though socialism meant government direction of capital.

the question then becomes what is socialism, is there a common definition of it?

i thought marx said socialism was a step on the way to communism.

Socialism is worker (or community) ownage of the means of production. That's it.

[Shnercropolis]

I find it funny that there needed to be subtitles for him, but I could understand him perfectly.

On a more serious note, the guy is right about socialism being the wrong way. I'm not going to go into that, since that's not what we're discussing.

And on a relevant tune, I think Americans are so afraid of anything even remotely resembling socialism because most of the people (40-60 years old) grew up either in the Red Scare or during the Cold War. So everyone thinks "If we become like the Russians did, we'll become poor people run by dictators!" So in every way that we can, we've subdued the things that caused the Russian Civil War. Free thinking of new political structures has come to a grinding halt. The middle class is the primary concern, not the low and high classes. Exceedingly stupid politicians are being put into office. It might be a stretch to think about it that way, but I think it's true.

[Shnercropolis]

i always though socialism meant government direction of capital.

the question then becomes what is socialism, is there a common definition of it?

i thought marx said socialism was a step on the way to communism.

Socialism is worker (or community) ownage of the means of production. That's it.

in that case my Dad worked for a socialist software company.
He hated every second of working there.

[Mavorpen]

Socialism is worker (or community) ownage of the means of production. That's it.

in that case my Dad worked for a socialist software company.
He hated every second of working there.

...Horrible joke.

[Shnercropolis]

in that case my Dad worked for a socialist software company.
He hated every second of working there.

...Horrible joke.

*shrug* it's true.

[Poni]

Here is my list of reasons as to why most American's don't approve of socialism, or at least half or, I don't know how many to be honest:

1: America has traditionally been capitalist.
2: Socialism, is very, very close in ways to communism, only perhaps less radical and definitely less violent. Even so, socialism is still a dangerous slope in those regards.
3: Socialism can actually hurt business. While its true capitalism can get out of hand, socialism is just the same and too much of it can create an unbalanced scale.
4: The Soviet Union and the Cold War obviously got Americans alert about the potential dangers of communism, and even socialists were considered potential communists. All the socialists really need were a little incentive.
5: The best way for socialism to work is to have a large government, and large governments will always try shoving their noses into everything. Americans for the most part don't feel comfortable being watched all the time. Protected, yes. Babysitted, not really.
6 (Just my opinion at this point.): Michael Moore; Need I say Moore?

[Mavorpen]

2: Socialism, is very, very close in ways to communism, only perhaps less radical and definitely less violent. Even so, socialism is still a dangerous slope in those regards.

Communism isn't violent.

3: Socialism can actually hurt business. While its true capitalism can get out of hand, socialism is just the same and too much of it can create an unbalanced scale.

Bullshit. The workers owning the means of production can hurt business how?

4: The Soviet Union and the Cold War obviously got Americans alert about the potential dangers of communism, and even socialists were considered potential communists. All the socialists really need were a little incentive.

No, they got the alert about the potential dangers of totalitarianism.

5: The best way for socialism to work is to have a large government, and large governments will always try shoving their noses into everything. Americans for the most part don't feel comfortable being watched all the time. Protected, yes. Babysitted, not really.

Socialism doesn't call for nor require a large government. In face, early socialists ADVOCATED for free markets, and believed that workers owning the means of production creates a more free market.

6 (Just my opinion at this point.): Michael Moore; Need I say Moore?

Glad you didn't claim anything as fact.

[Kakistopolis]

I believe people are the means of production. Who wants to own people?

[Hatsunia]

i always though socialism meant government direction of capital.

the question then becomes what is socialism, is there a common definition of it?

i thought marx said socialism was a step on the way to communism.

Socialism is worker (or community) ownage of the means of production. That's it.

And did the workers control the means of production in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

[Shnercropolis]

Socialism is worker (or community) ownage of the means of production. That's it.

And did the workers control the means of production in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

No.

[Mavorpen]

Socialism is worker (or community) ownage of the means of production. That's it.

And did the workers control the means of production in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?

No.

[Mavorpen]

I believe people are the means of production. Who wants to own people?

Means of production specifically deals with non-human inputs.

[Shnercropolis]

I believe people are the means of production. Who wants to own people?

Means of production specifically deals with non-human inputs.

then how do we produce babies?

SOVIET CLONING PLOT REVEALED!!!

[Miss Defied]

It's an ages old distortion that's been perpetuated by Republicans. By tying socialism to Stalinism in the minds of the American public, they can use it as a convenient scare word to discourage anything from increasing the tax rates of the 1% to increasing regulations on ethically and financially shaky industries.

*deep inhalation*
well, that's not really how ...
*exhalation*
Oh who am I kidding, this is exactly why.
/thread

[Kakistopolis]

I believe people are the means of production. Who wants to own people?

Means of production specifically deals with non-human inputs.

Which is the flaw of the whole ideological branch. Give a carpenter all the drills he can carry, he's still never going to be a dentist.

[Shnercropolis]

It's an ages old distortion that's been perpetuated by Republicans. By tying socialism to Stalinism in the minds of the American public, they can use it as a convenient scare word to discourage anything from increasing the tax rates of the 1% to increasing regulations on ethically and financially shaky industries.

*deep inhalation*
well, that's not really how ...
*exhalation*
Oh who am I kidding, this is exactly why.
/thread

And the republicans are mostly old people who grew up in either the red scare or the cold war, so we have a reason!
/topic
now can we talk about the socialist cloning plot I uncovered?

[Mavorpen]

Means of production specifically deals with non-human inputs.

Which is the flaw of the whole ideological branch. Give a carpenter all the drills he can carry, he's still never going to be a dentist.

The hell are you talking about? That's what human capital is.