Cyprus Dispute

[New Sapienta]

Make the Greeks Anarcho-Capitalist, and make the Turks Anarcho-Communist, then build a ginat wall between the two, and settle two debates at once.

[Camelza]

Thank you for that helpful answer, Camelza. That was just what I was looking for.

you're welcome! ;D

[Kemalist]

because of the actions of some fringe ultra nationalists

If that '' some fringe ultra nationalists '' took over the government by force, violating all agreements and treaties the previous Cypriot government had signed, yes it gave the right of intervention to Turkey based on the articles of the Treaty of Zurich and London.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Cypriot_coup_d'état

[Kemalist]

Seeing as how the two halves seem to be getting along fine under the current conditions, I say we not poke the hornets nest and keep the status quo.

Keeping in mind that most of the land in Northern Cyprus was seized from Cypriot Greeks. I'm sure the people that lived on that land and perhaps their descendants would want to go back.

Most of the land in Balkans were seized from Turks during the Balkan Wars. Millions of Balkanic Turks had to flee to Turkey. Now, if you don't mind, I'll ask you for to give their properties back.

Oh, in case you don't accept, sorry, I'm ignoring your demand over Northern Cyprus as well.

[Costa Alegria]

Most of the land in Balkans were seized from Turks during the Balkan Wars. Millions of Balkanic Turks had to flee to Turkey. Now, if you don't mind, I'll ask you for to give their properties back.

Fairly sure the Slavs were in the Balkans first and were only subjected to Ottoman rule once they decided to make them little additions to the empire.

Oh, in case you don't accept, sorry, I'm ignoring your demand over Northern Cyprus as well.

Fine. It would be hypocritical to justify the situation in the first place, but whatever. If you want to shut down debate that doesn't revolve around your nationalist-centric thought process, that's OK.

That's fine though. I mean, it's perfectly fine for the Turkish government to invade a sovereign state, evict the locals, seize their property, fill the gaps with settlers and establish an illegal puppet state. No other state should. Just Turkey.

But hey, fuck me and my opinions, because I'm a hypocritical Turk-hating white supremacist amirite?

[Alassus]

1st, Actually,no,they were made unofficialy as Ioannidis was the unofficial leader of Greece ruling the land without holding any official position other than his military rank which was not even a high one ..he was a goddamn brigadier.
2nd, Politics don't work that way,it's only about money and power deal with it.
3rd, Again politics don't work like that and Ahmadinejad isn't against Caucasians,he's against Iranians.
4th, Do Turkish-Cypriots,Armenian-Cypriots & Greek Cypriots live,work & take part in politics in Free Cyprus? of course they do!
now,please do tell me,is there even a single Greek-Cypriot in the Occupied part?are there Greek-speaking schools or Greek political parties? why? Is it because you kicked us out while killing and raping a big number of our kin maybe,eh?

Ah, Greek Cypriot, I presume? I'm not quite sure you can approach this issue with a clean slate, considering the Cyprosian stance to the TRNC

Again, pointing this out, I am not Turkish, I'm American.

1. They staged a coup. They ousted the former government. They were,de facto, leaders of Cyprus.
2. I would disagree with you there. People care. Populations care. And, democratic governments have to listen to their populace. EVen if it does work that way, they the Greek Cypriots tried to play for power. They lost. If its about playing for power and money, then no party is less guilty then any other.
3. I'd disagree. Again. This is a matter of opinion and, see above.
4. Oh, I don't know. Maybe its because the Greek Cypriot government won't let them travel there, as they consider it "occupied territory" and thus have closed down most of the ports, airports, and borders, perhaps? Mayabe if they weren't so hostile to the TRNC, they the TRNC wouldn't have such a problem with the Greeks. Perhaps if you actually RESPECTED them and treated them like actual people, they'd respect you too. Especially since a number of them have bitter memories of their relatives getting killed and beaten too. Although, again, only 3 days of military action over a very small area dosen't give much time of raping. Perhaps Greek Cyprus has a bit of bias to its presentation of the situation as well, hm?

"RESPECTED them and treated them like actual people"
Turkish people never respected the Greek ethnicity, why respect the Turkish ethnicity?

"a number of them have bitter memories of their relatives getting killed and beaten too"
That gives you the right to try to commit a genocide on the Greek ethnicity of Cyprus?

"only 3 days of military action over a very small area dosen't give much time of raping. Perhaps Greek Cyprus has a bit of bias to its presentation of the situation as well, hm?"
3 days?
I have an uncle who was executed during the invasion and he was only 10 years old, they found his corpse lately in 2006.

[Kemalist]

That's fine though. I mean, it's perfectly fine for the western countries and Israel to invade a sovereign state, evict the locals, seize their property, fill the gaps with settlers and establish an illegal puppet state. No other state should. Just the westerners.

Fixed.

I'm sure, after criticizing Turkey's settlement policies over Northern Cyprus, you'll visit Israel/Palestine thread and show your solidarity with the actions of the Israeli government concerning Gaza.

But hey, fuck me and my opinions, because I'm a hypocritical Turk-hating white supremacist amirite?

Don't even cry for my labelling you as a Turk-hater since you accuse me of ultra-nationalism although I am not. What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.

[Yanitza]

Keeping in mind that most of the land in Northern Cyprus was seized from Cypriot Greeks. I'm sure the people that lived on that land and perhaps their descendants would want to go back.

Most of the land in Balkans were seized from Turks during the Balkan Wars. Millions of Balkanic Turks had to flee to Turkey. Now, if you don't mind, I'll ask you for to give their properties back.

Oh, in case you don't accept, sorry, I'm ignoring your demand over Northern Cyprus as well.

Oh yeah, Turkish civilians were targeted and abused during the Balkans wars, yes that is true. But so were Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian Albanian, Montenegrin civilians, so no it was not a isolated incident of ethnic cleansing it was pillaging and war crimes from all sides. Lets not forget the facts that those Turks were brought in as colonists and the land was stolen fromt he natives by an an imperial power the oppressed the natives, so please don't pull this shit

Oh and while we are on about Turks in the Balkans, how come Turkey did absolutely fuck all when the Bulgarians evicted their Turkish population in the 80s? i didn't see Turkey invading and ethnically cleansing half the country?

[Yanitza]

because of the actions of some fringe ultra nationalists

If that '' some fringe ultra nationalists '' took over the government by force, violating all agreements and treaties the previous Cypriot government had signed, yes it gave the right of intervention to Turkey based on the articles of the Treaty of Zurich and London.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1974_Cypriot_coup_d'état

and then Turkey is allowed to ethnically cleanse half the island of half it's inhabitants who had nothing to with it?

[Warshania]

The entire island should be Greek. Anything else is unacceptable.

Any "United Cyprus" theory is a joke. Turks have no right to be in this island.

[Kemalist]

Oh yeah, Turkish civilians were targeted and abused during the Balkans wars, yes that is true. But so were Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian Albanian, Montenegrin civilians, so no it was not a isolated incident of ethnic cleansing it was pillaging and war crimes from all sides. Lets not forget the facts that those Turks were brought in as colonists and the land was stolen fromt he natives by an an imperial power the oppressed the natives, so please don't pull this shit

So, will they get their properties back ?

Oh and while we are on about Turks in the Balkans, how come Turkey did absolutely fuck all when the Bulgarians evicted their Turkish population in the 80s? i didn't see Turkey invading and ethnically cleansing half the country?

1980s were pretty horrible years for Turkey, full of left-right conflicts, civil violence and ideological polarizations that even spread to the high schools and universites and as a result of this, a military coup period. I'm sure Turkey would execute an operation on Bulgaria as well, if the Bülent Ecevit had the power back then, instead of a military junta and later a neo-liberal government.

and then Turkey is allowed to ethnically cleanse half the island of half it's inhabitants who had nothing to with it?

As I said above, a population exchange was necessary to stop the ethnic violence between two sides. Turks in the south were also brought to the north and lost their homes there.

[Kemalist]

The entire island should be Greek. Anything else is unacceptable.

Any "United Cyprus" theory is a joke. Turks have no right to be in this island.

Unsuccesful troll is unsuccesful.

[Yanitza]

Oh yeah, Turkish civilians were targeted and abused during the Balkans wars, yes that is true. But so were Greek, Serbian, Bulgarian Albanian, Montenegrin civilians, so no it was not a isolated incident of ethnic cleansing it was pillaging and war crimes from all sides. Lets not forget the facts that those Turks were brought in as colonists and the land was stolen fromt he natives by an an imperial power the oppressed the natives, so please don't pull this shit

So, will they get their properties back ?

Oh and while we are on about Turks in the Balkans, how come Turkey did absolutely fuck all when the Bulgarians evicted their Turkish population in the 80s? i didn't see Turkey invading and ethnically cleansing half the country?

1980s were pretty horrible years for Turkey, full of left-right conflicts, civil violence and ideological polarizations that even spread to the high schools and universites and as a result of this, a military coup period. I'm sure Turkey would execute an operation on Bulgaria as well, if the Bülent Ecevit had the power back then, instead of a military junta and later a neo-liberal government.

and then Turkey is allowed to ethnically cleanse half the island of half it's inhabitants who had nothing to with it?

As I said above, a population exchange was necessary to stop the ethnic violence between two sides. Turks in the south were also brought to the north.

1. will they get their properties back? uh uh this is a whole different issue. For one Greek Cypriots had lived on the island for centuries before the arrival of the Turks and were the majority in both halves of the island, Balkan Turks were brought in as Colonist to rule over the local Balkan peoples and were a minority in all areas except those around Istanbul. No they should not, for a whole different set of reasons different from Cyprus

2. So what exactly would you be proposing Turkey do against Bulgaria? also does that mean you think the Greek government should have launched an operation against Turkey in the 1950's to protect the Greeks in Istanbul? (never should have happened due to American control over the country and the countries devastation in WW2 and civil war anyway)

3. No, not when Greeks made up the majority is both halves that is ridiculous,

[Kemalist]

1 - Turks used to reside in the Balkans for centuries, and I think this is enough to consider them local people in regardless to which ethnicity lived there most. With this logic, Israel does not have the right to exist. And as for them being minority, this is wrong.

Most urban centres in the Balkans, especially in Thrace, Macedonia, Thessaly, and Moesia, achieved Muslim/Turkish majorities or substantial minorities soon after the completion of the conquest and remained overwhelmingly Muslim in composition into the eighteenth century, and in some areas such as Macedonia and Bulgaria well into the nineteenth century. However, in the course of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, many Turks were displaced, most of them fleeing to Anatolia.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_E ... lkan_Turks

2 - During the 1950s, yes it would be legitimate for the Greek government to take action in order to protect Greek people in Istanbul. But I doubt they could, considering that both nations were a part of NATO and an attack on one member means an attack on whole members.

3 - Who's being the majority will not change the fact that there was a serious ethnic violence toward two groups and it was the best solution to stop it under the conditions of the time.

[AiliailiA]

He's one of those pro-Turkey chaps that have popped up, right? Given that, I imagine he wants Cyprus to form its own independent monarchy.

I don't think I'm pro-Turkey on this issue. If that was the case, I would support the annexation of the Northern part by Turkey. I want a fair solution for both sides that would end the conflict in the island, in a way that would not suit the interests of the imperialist nations.

You're not the same person as Kemaliste then.

Just bad luck on your part to be mistaken for that poster.

[Vitaphone Racing]

How about Turkey fucks off? The problem stems from the fact that Turkey insists on having a seperate Turkish state in a foreign nation.

[Kemalist]

I don't think I'm pro-Turkey on this issue. If that was the case, I would support the annexation of the Northern part by Turkey. I want a fair solution for both sides that would end the conflict in the island, in a way that would not suit the interests of the imperialist nations.

You're not the same person as Kemaliste then.

Just bad luck on your part to be mistaken for that poster.

Show me one proof that I ever supported the annexation of the Northern Cyprus. Cause I don't. But I will advocate its right to remain sovereign to death.

[Kemalist]

How about Turkey fucks off? The problem stems from the fact that Turkey insists on having a seperate Turkish state in a foreign nation.

So, not from Greeks wanting to have full authority over the island by ignoring the rights of the Turkish population. It was the greek side who voted against the solution and unification in 2004, not Turks.

[Vitaphone Racing]

How about Turkey fucks off? The problem stems from the fact that Turkey insists on having a seperate Turkish state in a foreign nation.

So, not from Greeks wanting to have full authority over the island by ignoring the rights of the Turkish population. It was the greek side who voted against the solution and unification in 2004, not Turks.

Because it was a shitty solution. Any solution in which Turkey, Greece or any other nation is given any form of control over Cyprus should be discarded immediately.

[Kemalist]

So, not from Greeks wanting to have full authority over the island by ignoring the rights of the Turkish population. It was the greek side who voted against the solution and unification in 2004, not Turks.

Because it was a shitty solution. Any solution in which Turkey, Greece or any other nation is given any form of control over Cyprus should be discarded immediately.

Those who call the Turkish military intervention " illegal " support their claim by saying '' because UN says so '', but do not mind calling a solution that was proposed by the United Nations '' shitty '', as it does not suit their interests.

It's obvious why most people here are sided with Greeks because they are a western and christian nation and preferrable over a dominantly eastern Muslim nation. That's why they blame Turkey for allegedly cleansing the ethnic Greeks in the North but ignore the merciless murders and extermination attempts toward the Turkish population before the Turkish intervention. That's why they also support Israel's occupation over Palestine but not Turkey's rightful case in Cyprus. So, it would be stupitod to expect westerners to approach this issue in a fair unbiased way.

[Warshania]

The entire island should be Greek. Anything else is unacceptable.

Any "United Cyprus" theory is a joke. Turks have no right to be in this island.

Unsuccesful troll is unsuccesful.

Just because I disagree with you I'm a troll? Why open this thread if you can't stand other people's opinions?

[Vitaphone Racing]

Because it was a shitty solution. Any solution in which Turkey, Greece or any other nation is given any form of control over Cyprus should be discarded immediately.

Those who call the Turkish military intervention " illegal " support their claim by saying '' because UN says so '', but do not mind calling a solution that was proposed by the United Nations '' shitty '', as it does not suit their interests.

It's obvious why most people here are sided with Greeks because they are a western and christian nation and preferrable over a dominantly eastern Muslim nation. That's why they blame Turkey for allegedly cleansing the ethnic Greeks in the North but ignore the merciless murders and extermination attempts toward the Turkish population before the Turkish intervention. That's why they also support Israel's occupation over Palestine but not Turkey's rightful case in Cyprus. So, it would be stupitod to expect westerners to approach this issue in a fair unbiased way.

The resolution was shitty because it gives half the seats in parliament and in the justice system to a minority which makes up less than 20% of the population. The resolution was shitty because it gave Turkey unprecedented power over the situation. Nobody ever said the UN was always right.

I also wondered when you'd play the race card. I'm glad I don't have to worry about when that's going to make an appearance any more. Stay classy bro.

[Melas]

Cyprus-Greece-Enosis

I think that sais enough

[Baltenstein]

That's why they blame Turkey for allegedly cleansing the ethnic Greeks in the North but ignore the merciless murders and extermination attempts toward the Turkish population before the Turkish intervention.

"Allegedly" cleansing!? Are you now saying that the ethnic cleansing didn't take place and that there are still 100,000+ ethnic Greeks living in Northern Cyprus?

[Ostroeuropa]

Because it was a shitty solution. Any solution in which Turkey, Greece or any other nation is given any form of control over Cyprus should be discarded immediately.

Those who call the Turkish military intervention " illegal " support their claim by saying '' because UN says so '', but do not mind calling a solution that was proposed by the United Nations '' shitty '', as it does not suit their interests.

It's obvious why most people here are sided with Greeks because they are a western and christian nation and preferrable over a dominantly eastern Muslim nation. That's why they blame Turkey for allegedly cleansing the ethnic Greeks in the North but ignore the merciless murders and extermination attempts toward the Turkish population before the Turkish intervention. That's why they also support Israel's occupation over Palestine but not Turkey's rightful case in Cyprus. So, it would be stupitod to expect westerners to approach this issue in a fair unbiased way.

I'm sure everyone is a racist unless they agree with you.