California May Ban "Gay Conversion" Therapy

[Arkinesia]

Still, there aren't any scientific studies showing that the practice actually causes harm. Anecdotal reports of depression, even suicide, abound, and a task force convened by the American Psychological Association found the practice to be both harmful and ineffective. But when the government regulates a behavior, like driving without a seatbelt or smoking, they can usually draw on volumes of data demonstrating that the behavior hurts people. That isn't the case here, and the few remaining supporters of the practice stress this fact.

so if there isn't any concrete evidence that it's actually harmful

then what's the big deal

It not being harmful in 158% of the cases doesn't fit the narrative.

…you know, speaking as an advocate for gay rights, and all.

[Madredia]

the problem is that not all gay people are happy they are. some people are gay and hate themselves for it. I know several. While it may not really do anything, atleast it gives them false hope, and false hope is better then no hope.
also I dont know whether or not its nessecearily false hope. It is possible to change, atleast superfically. and some people want that too.

What are you talking about? First of all, in most cases, they don't like who they are because they are bullied or made fun of, or they are exposed to idiots on TV or in church or wherever that say gays are disgusting, unnatural, etc. Even then, the notion that we should pander to their disliking of who they are instead of trying to help them accept themselves is downright idiotic.

You can't speak for every homosexual. What about Christians who in their teen years start to feel attracted to the same sex, are disgusted by that fact, and want to get rid of it. The same way someone who constantly wants to have sex with a sibling might go for counseling.

[Unified Provinces]

Methinks that this is a good first step.

[Madredia]

It only bans it for minors.

Hmmm, that's a shame...
It's a good start though.

And why is that a shame? An adult can decide whatever counseling he/she wants to go for

[Unified Provinces]

This is ridiculous! where will the gays go now to become American? As all should now I'm a firm supporter of changing the way people think they feel. Everyone knows that you will only be happy once you've conformed to the way others believe you should be!

But there's an even bigger problem here,... California. I mean it all adds up: the Elites of Hollywood, legal marijuana, and now banning conversion or as me and Rush Limbaugh call it "American Ethnic Cleansing". California must be stopped and I know exactly how. We simply have to dislodge California from the rest of the continental U.S, once they're out of the picture we get rid of two big threats facing america -- The ban on gay conversion and Neil Patrick Harris. Now if only we could do the same to New Jersey, we'd end all the suffering in America and return to ideal times. Don't you think?

Join me NationStates! No more Happy Gays!

I love you biased conservatives!

[Leepaidamba]

This statement may not necessarily apply to these "Gay Conversion" therapies, but it really gets on my nerves how it seems that the people only want government separation from issues of faith or religion when the government is acting in favour of Christian beliefs. When acting against, people are all for it.

This isn't acting against Christian beliefs in any way. Only if you will consider the banning of cutting the hands of thiefs an act against Muslim beliefs can you claim that it is.

[Madredia]

People open your eyes!! This is basically like banning sex change surgery.

[Mavorpen]

You can't speak for every homosexual. What about Christians who in their teen years start to feel attracted to the same sex, are disgusted by that fact, and want to get rid of it. The same way someone who constantly wants to have sex with a sibling might go for counseling.

What the fuck? This is exactly what I just said.

What are you talking about? First of all, in most cases, they don't like who they are because they are bullied or made fun of, or they are exposed to idiots on TV or in church or wherever that say gays are disgusting, unnatural, etc. Even then, the notion that we should pander to their disliking of who they are instead of trying to help them accept themselves is downright idiotic.

Try reading more than one line.

[Arkinesia]

People open your eyes!! This is basically like banning sex change surgery.

Given that there isn't a proven pattern of abuse this does set a very bad trend.

“Billy hit me with a baseball bat! Time to ban baseball bats!”

I don't really like slippery slopes but in this case, yeah, it's not a very bright precedent to set.

[Zaras]

People open your eyes!! This is basically like banning sex change surgery.

No, and to argue this shows an unbelievable lack of thought. The two are not similar.

Oh, wait, you just equated homosexuality to incest. Why am I not surprised that this post is just as clueless.

[Unified Provinces]

Hmmm, that's a shame...
It's a good start though.

And why is that a shame? An adult can decide whatever counseling he/she wants to go for

Sure. A grown adult can make a decision for themselves. However this``counseling isn't real science it's pseudoscience.

[Leepaidamba]

People open your eyes!! This is basically like banning sex change surgery.

No, it isn't. Sex change surgery does what it claims to do: it changes your physical appearance. These "therapies" have no actual result, certainly none measured, and so they are not comparable.

It's comparable to banning homeopathy, and that's something I'm all for.

[Mavorpen]

People open your eyes!! This is basically like banning sex change surgery.

No, it's not. People obtain sex changes because they are of another gender identity in their mind. They aren't changing their sexual orientation.

[Zaras]

And why is that a shame? An adult can decide whatever counseling he/she wants to go for

Sure. A grown adult can make a decision for themselves. However this``counseling isn't real science it's pseudoscience.

It's not real science if only idiots and bigots believe in it.

[Leepaidamba]

Sure. A grown adult can make a decision for themselves. However this``counseling isn't real science it's pseudoscience.

It's not real science if only idiots and bigots believe in it.

Unless those bigots make up the concensus of relevant scientists, but that's another issue.

[The Nuclear Fist]

People open your eyes!! This is basically like banning sex change surgery.

It's banning forcing children to go to camps that have no actual merit of usefulness for the sake of homophobia.

[Mavorpen]

It's not real science if only idiots and bigots believe in it.

Unless those bigots make up the concensus of relevant scientists, but that's another issue.

No, even then it wouldn't be real science. Real science would be based upon observations and testing and reaching valid conclusions based off of them. If scientists who happened to be bigots ignored all of the results (these camps don't work) to enforce their bigotry, it wouldn't be real science.

[Dracone]

the problem is that not all gay people are happy they are. some people are gay and hate themselves for it. I know several. While it may not really do anything, atleast it gives them false hope, and false hope is better then no hope.
also I dont know whether or not its nessecearily false hope. It is possible to change, atleast superfically. and some people want that too.

What are you talking about? First of all, in most cases, they don't like who they are because they are bullied or made fun of, or they are exposed to idiots on TV or in church or wherever that say gays are disgusting, unnatural, etc. Even then, the notion that we should pander to their disliking of who they are instead of trying to help them accept themselves is downright idiotic.

does it matter why they dont like who they are? and please dont insult religion, I am very religious, and have no problems with gays. My point is that some gay people dont like being gay.
and why should we only offer counseling to help them be gay? why shouldnt we try and help them change themselves to the person they want to be? I'm not suggesting that only gay conversion therapy be poffered, but it should be available.

[Madredia]

Yes I did equate homosexuality to incest, because from an unbiased point of view, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, paedeophilia, and necrophilia are really should all be legal or all be illegal, you have to be consistent. And in response to everyone saying sex change and this are not the same, if someone wants to change, or at leaast ATTEMPT to change who they are, why not let them?

[Leepaidamba]

Unless those bigots make up the concensus of relevant scientists, but that's another issue.

No, even then it wouldn't be real science. Real science would be based upon observations and testing and reaching valid conclusions based off of them. If scientists who happened to be bigots ignored all of the results (these camps don't work) to enforce their bigotry, it wouldn't be real science.

Yes, these camps don't work as real science points out. That's irrelevant to my point, which was that real science done by bigots is still real science. It doesn't matter whether a scientist is a bigot, as long as they do their science right. Of course, bigoted scientists might be more prone to doing bad science, but that's besides the point.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Yes I did equate homosexuality to incest, because from an unbiased point of view, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, paedeophilia, and necrophilia are really should all be legal or all be illegal, you have to be consistent.

Homosexuality involves two members of the same sex legally consenting.
Bestiality involves someone raping an animal that cannot consent.
Paedophilia involves molesting a child that is too young to consent.
Necrophilia involves raping corpses that cannot consent.

So, no, they're nothing alike. This isn't hard to understand.

And in response to everyone saying sex change and this are not the same, if someone wants to change, or at leaast ATTEMPT to change who they are, why not let them?

California isn't banning these camps outright. It is banning forcing children to attend them.

Learn to read an article before you criticise it.

[Mavorpen]

does it matter why they dont like who they are? and please dont insult religion, I am very religious, and have no problems with gays. My point is that some gay people dont like being gay.

Yes, it does. If it's because of pressure from others, we must address that, not encourage them to hate themselves with things that do not work. I don't care if you're religious.

and why should we only offer counseling to help them be gay? why shouldnt we try and help them change themselves to the person they want to be? I'm not suggesting that only gay conversion therapy be poffered, but it should be available.

Because it doesn't work, and it's harmful.

[Madredia]

What are you talking about? First of all, in most cases, they don't like who they are because they are bullied or made fun of, or they are exposed to idiots on TV or in church or wherever that say gays are disgusting, unnatural, etc. Even then, the notion that we should pander to their disliking of who they are instead of trying to help them accept themselves is downright idiotic.

does it matter why they dont like who they are? and please dont insult religion, I am very religious, and have no problems with gays. My point is that some gay people dont like being gay.
and why should we only offer counseling to help them be gay? why shouldnt we try and help them change themselves to the person they want to be? I'm not suggesting that only gay conversion therapy be poffered, but it should be available.

I agree with you man, if someone doesn't want to be a homosexual, they have every right to try and change that.

[Mavorpen]

Yes, these camps don't work as real science points out. That's irrelevant to my point, which was that real science done by bigots is still real science. It doesn't matter whether a scientist is a bigot, as long as they do their science right. Of course, bigoted scientists might be more prone to doing bad science, but that's besides the point.

Did you read anything I posted? If the results disagree with scientists are claiming due to bigotry, it's not real science.

[Imsogone]

What are you talking about? First of all, in most cases, they don't like who they are because they are bullied or made fun of, or they are exposed to idiots on TV or in church or wherever that say gays are disgusting, unnatural, etc. Even then, the notion that we should pander to their disliking of who they are instead of trying to help them accept themselves is downright idiotic.

does it matter why they dont like who they are? and please dont insult religion, I am very religious, and have no problems with gays. My point is that some gay people dont like being gay.
and why should we only offer counseling to help them be gay? why shouldnt we try and help them change themselves to the person they want to be? I'm not suggesting that only gay conversion therapy be poffered, but it should be available.

There are reasons people don't like who they are. These reasons almost always have to do with the way they're treated by others for being who they are. Women who don't like themselves aren't given "male conversion" therapy, they're given therapy that teaches self-esteem and self-acceptance. Gays who don't like themselves should not be forced into "conversion" therapy as this just reinforces the self-hate because it DOESN'T F'ING WORK!