A Theory on Popularity/Bully-ism

[Moving Forward Inc]

I'm not so sure about the idea of me become a rich entrepreneur person -

It's the stereotype. Naturally, it's not going to be applicable to everyone.

I have already realized that in a capitalist society that it requires making wise decisions and hard work.

Mm, but as most people grow up, they realize that such things are not guarantors to success. Hence my comment about 'simplistic notions of how the world works', in your case. It's easy to think the world is a pure meritocracy when you've never actually 'lived' in the real world, so to speak.

Of course they are not guarantors to success. One would have to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time for his efforts to count. I believe that I never said that hard work and wise decisions will guarantee a place as an entrepreneur, I said that it would be required to secure a place as one if you are lucky enough.

[Moving Forward Inc]

I myself am not afraid of social isolation. Socializing is a habit of the incompetent, possibly how left-wing economic ideas were developed.
IMO, whether a person is socially successful or not should be based on their politeness, intelligence, and forms of non-social skilfulness, not things such as charisma.

You know business is a social interaction, right? I mean, it requires interacting with people and all that good stuff?

Of course, voluntary association and that sort of thing. But an intelligent businessman knows that your moneymaking potential is more important than your charisma. It's gotta be bad luck for businessmen that think the other way around.

[Mushet]

Getting bullied can also distract students from their study.
I hate the schooling system we have now also because children are put in classrooms based on age, not skill. It is impossible for one to rise above their peers.

Thats right. Studying at the library or on the computer or whatever means the student has no distractions and can rise to a higher level as he/she is able.

You don't learn social skills nearly as well though

[Vareiln]

The whole "Bullying builds character" thing is little more than thinly veiled social darwinism.

Hardship hardens you, but bullying and constant victimisation is generally not a good thing.

Exactly. Hardship is one thing, arguing that psychological and physical torture of individuals at a young age by the people they are more or less forced to be around somehow builds character(Rather than completely crushing it, as is usually the result) usually translates to hatred of the victim.
Not saying the OP is one of those people, he seems to be someone who merely stumbled onto those thoughts.
Oh, and, I am speaking in exaggerations, of course, but my point still stands.
Hardship can strengthen you, but there is a point where it outright crushes you.

[New Sapienta]

Thats right. Studying at the library or on the computer or whatever means the student has no distractions and can rise to a higher level as he/she is able.

You don't learn social skills nearly as well though

Not to mention you suffer from bias by the Parent's subjective opinions and ineptitude on cases like physics.

[Forster Keys]

Thats right. Studying at the library or on the computer or whatever means the student has no distractions and can rise to a higher level as he/she is able.

You don't learn social skills nearly as well though

Precisely. Odds are if you get homeschooled, or go to more sheltered private schools, you'll grow up having no idea how to interact with other people, and how the real world works. Which is cool, so long as you seek to live inside a comfortable microcosm for your adult life.

[Forster Keys]

Hardship hardens you, but bullying and constant victimisation is generally not a good thing.

Exactly. Hardship is one thing, arguing that psychological and physical torture of individuals at a young age by the people they are more or less forced to be around somehow builds character(Rather than completely crushing it, as is usually the result) usually translates to hatred of the victim.
Not saying the OP is one of those people, he seems to be someone who merely stumbled onto those thoughts.
Oh, and, I am speaking in exaggerations, of course, but my point still stands.
Hardship can strengthen you, but there is a point where it outright crushes you.

Yeah, there are too many examples of people round here who've committed suicide due to bullying.

[Kohlastan]

I myself am not afraid of social isolation. Socializing is a habit of the incompetent, possibly how left-wing economic ideas were developed.
IMO, whether a person is socially successful or not should be based on their politeness, intelligence, and forms of non-social skilfulness, not things such as charisma.

You know business is a social interaction, right? I mean, it requires interacting with people and all that good stuff?

Exactly, plus you can be socially secessful by making your own niche with competent, intelligent, and polite people.

[The Realm of God]

While the about affect is true it would also hurt the child's social skills making it difficult to make new friends, adapt to different social situation, and even hake it hard to be sympathetic to others because of social isolation.

I myself am not afraid of social isolation. Socializing is a habit of the incompetent, possibly how left-wing economic ideas were developed.
IMO, whether a person is socially successful or not should be based on their politeness, intelligence, and forms of non-social skilfulness, not things such as charisma.

Social skills are defined by none social skills now are they? Charisma is all that matters when socialising, it's not a habit of the incompatent at all, it's a part of the human experance.

Tl:Dr- If you go and talk to people and get out more instead of playing DnD in your mums basement, jobs and shit will come to you.

[Cannot think of a name]

You know business is a social interaction, right? I mean, it requires interacting with people and all that good stuff?

Of course, voluntary association and that sort of thing. But an intelligent businessman knows that your moneymaking potential is more important than your charisma. It's gotta be bad luck for businessmen that think the other way around.

Wow is your life going to be filled with frustration and disappointment...

[Moving Forward Inc]

The columbine high school massacre was two brave students declaring war on the evil that was obligatory solidarity. If people accepted voluntary association and got rid of the education system bullies would be gone. All previous solutions are absolutely hopeless, some have even caused more bullying.

Hold on a sec, are you being serious?

People who think solidarity should be obligatory are these people who think the world would be a better place if people were forced to associate and work together.
That's what public education is. You get forced to live and work with other students. The fact is that it doesn't always work out right. Certain people will just not like others, and will bully them, intimidate them, attempt to make them go away etc. and thanks to that the other person in the forced relationship will not want to be involved either, and may even try to fight against this bully and the persons who forced him to associate with the bully. This is shown by the Columbine high school massacre.
If voluntary association was how things worked, the bully could choose not to associate and then feel no need to bully the person, if he does, the other person can simply end the association.
I am being serious here.

[Vareiln]

You know business is a social interaction, right? I mean, it requires interacting with people and all that good stuff?

Of course, voluntary association and that sort of thing. But an intelligent businessman knows that your moneymaking potential is more important than your charisma. It's gotta be bad luck for businessmen that think the other way around.

Charisma IS one of, if not the, most important skill for businessman. You'll be interacting with people, and if you can't effectively communicate with them or deal with them, then you don't have moneymaking potential.

[Forster Keys]

Hold on a sec, are you being serious?

People who think solidarity should be obligatory are these people who think the world would be a better place if people were forced to associate and work together.
That's what public education is. You get forced to live and work with other students. The fact is that it doesn't always work out right. Certain people will just not like others, and will bully them, intimidate them, attempt to make them go away etc. and thanks to that the other person in the forced relationship will not want to be involved either, and may even try to fight against this bully and the persons who forced him to associate with the bully. This is shown by the Columbine high school massacre.
If voluntary association was how things worked, the bully could choose not to associate and then feel no need to bully the person, if he does, the other person can simply end the association.
I am being serious here.

I'm not talking about your own strange Randian ideology here, I'm questioning why you call the mass killing of school students "heroic".

[New Rogernomics]

Exactly. Hardship is one thing, arguing that psychological and physical torture of individuals at a young age by the people they are more or less forced to be around somehow builds character(Rather than completely crushing it, as is usually the result) usually translates to hatred of the victim.
Not saying the OP is one of those people, he seems to be someone who merely stumbled onto those thoughts.
Oh, and, I am speaking in exaggerations, of course, but my point still stands.
Hardship can strengthen you, but there is a point where it outright crushes you.

Yeah, there are too many examples of people round here who've committed suicide due to bullying.

I nearly ran away from home in High School, I even know some people that tried to end their lives. The teenage years are often the hardest, as you are forced to change in a short space of time into an adult. Most people at that age aren't aware of what they are doing to each other (and the real implications of bullying) till they are in University/College*.

*Though bullying doesn't end in education, and continues into the workplace.

[Forster Keys]

Yeah, there are too many examples of people round here who've committed suicide due to bullying.

I nearly ran away from home in High School, I even know some people that tried to end their lives. The teenage years are often the hardest, as you are forced to change in a short space of time into an adult. Most people at that age aren't aware of what they are doing to each other (and the real implications of bullying) till they are in University/College*.

*Though bullying doesn't end in education, and continues into the workplace.

I sometimes doubt whether the widespread cultural/societal changes required for this stuff to change are even possible.

[Moving Forward Inc]

People who think solidarity should be obligatory are these people who think the world would be a better place if people were forced to associate and work together.
That's what public education is. You get forced to live and work with other students. The fact is that it doesn't always work out right. Certain people will just not like others, and will bully them, intimidate them, attempt to make them go away etc. and thanks to that the other person in the forced relationship will not want to be involved either, and may even try to fight against this bully and the persons who forced him to associate with the bully. This is shown by the Columbine high school massacre.
If voluntary association was how things worked, the bully could choose not to associate and then feel no need to bully the person, if he does, the other person can simply end the association.
I am being serious here.

I'm not talking about your own strange Randian ideology here, I'm questioning why you call the mass killing of school students "heroic".

I do not think it was "heroic". Yes, they tried to solve the problem like they should have, but they did it the wrong way.
We're talking Gandhi style non-violent protest. Possibly support some politicians who share their views.

[Avenio]

Of course they are not guarantors to success. One would have to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time for his efforts to count. I believe that I never said that hard work and wise decisions will guarantee a place as an entrepreneur, I said that it would be required to secure a place as one if you are lucky enough.

There are a lot of people in this world that are fabulously wealthy, and continue to be fabulously wealthy, through little to no skill of their own. Again, this is where that 'simplistic notion of how the world works' comes in - in this post and others, you're continuing to show a remarkably dense pair of ideological blinders, reinforced by a stubborn backing that only a privileged background can give.

[Forster Keys]

I'm not talking about your own strange Randian ideology here, I'm questioning why you call the mass killing of school students "heroic".

I do not think it was "heroic". Yes, they tried to solve the problem like they should have, but they did it the wrong way.
We're talking Gandhi style non-violent protest. Possibly support some politicians who share their views.

Then say that, rather than:

The columbine high school massacre was two brave students declaring war on the evil that was obligatory solidarity

[Vareiln]

I nearly ran away from home in High School, I even know some people that tried to end their lives. The teenage years are often the hardest, as you are forced to change in a short space of time into an adult. Most people at that age aren't aware of what they are doing to each other (and the real implications of bullying) till they are in University/College*.

*Though bullying doesn't end in education, and continues into the workplace.

I sometimes doubt whether the widespread cultural/societal changes required for this stuff to change are even possible.

It's been changing as people grow more tolerant.

[Moving Forward Inc]

Of course they are not guarantors to success. One would have to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time for his efforts to count. I believe that I never said that hard work and wise decisions will guarantee a place as an entrepreneur, I said that it would be required to secure a place as one if you are lucky enough.

There are a lot of people in this world that are fabulously wealthy, and continue to be fabulously wealthy, through little to no skill of their own. Again, this is where that 'simplistic notion of how the world works' comes in - in this post and others, you're continuing to show a remarkably dense pair of ideological blinders, reinforced by a stubborn backing that only a privileged background can give.

Being fabulously wealthy is not exactly the same as being the entrepreneur type who thanks to some major change in the markets becomes ultra rich.
I accept that people can get massive inheritance, or just be born to be rich - that happens sometimes.

[Mushet]

Yeah, there are too many examples of people round here who've committed suicide due to bullying.

I nearly ran away from home in High School, I even know some people that tried to end their lives. The teenage years are often the hardest, as you are forced to change in a short space of time into an adult. Most people at that age aren't aware of what they are doing to each other (and the real implications of bullying) till they are in University/College*.

*Though bullying doesn't end in education, and continues into the workplace.

I hated high school, humiliating environment, not by the students they didn't fuck with me, but the school administration's policies and the aura of resentment that came with it

[New Rogernomics]

I nearly ran away from home in High School, I even know some people that tried to end their lives. The teenage years are often the hardest, as you are forced to change in a short space of time into an adult. Most people at that age aren't aware of what they are doing to each other (and the real implications of bullying) till they are in University/College*.

*Though bullying doesn't end in education, and continues into the workplace.

I hated high school, humiliating environment, not by the students they didn't fuck with me, but the school administration's policies and the aura of resentment that came with it

I didn't like the administration sometimes either, fortunately the nice teachers there helped.

[Avenio]

Being fabulously wealthy is not exactly the same as being the entrepreneur type who thanks to some major change in the markets becomes ultra rich.

And those types of people are, quite literally, one in a million - for every Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg there are tens of thousands of nameless, intelligent 'entrepreneurs' who live out their lives in relative obscurity. Again, the myth of the 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' ideal is just that - a myth. One that you, as a child of privilege, have swallowed.

I accept that people can get massive inheritance, or just be born to be rich - that happens sometimes.

It happens for the vast majority of the time, really.

[Forster Keys]

Being fabulously wealthy is not exactly the same as being the entrepreneur type who thanks to some major change in the markets becomes ultra rich.

And those types of people are, quite literally, one in a million - for every Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg there are tens of thousands of nameless, intelligent 'entrepreneurs' who live out their lives in relative obscurity.

I accept that people can get massive inheritance, or just be born to be rich - that happens sometimes.

It happens for the vast majority of the time, really.

It's why entrepreneurs are valued so much. It's really really hard to do.

[Avenio]

It's why entrepreneurs are valued so much. It's really really hard to do.

Indeed. And even talented individuals like Zuckerberg and Jobs were themselves benefitted by a great deal of privilege; both were raised in upper to upper-middle class homes with plenty of opportunity for education and exploration.