Nope. Snow. All the way down.
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by Samuraikoku » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:27 pm
by Kvatchdom » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:28 pm
by Samuraikoku » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:29 pm
Kvatchdom wrote:The human race nor any other race could reproduce to the level we have today with only two of the species.
by Veladio » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:29 pm
Kvatchdom wrote:The human race nor any other race could reproduce to the level we have today with only two of the species.
by AiliailiA » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:30 pm
Big Jim P wrote:Ailiailia wrote:
Problem there. The moon has a density of 3.346 g/cm3 which ... by the magic of metric ... you can tell just by looking at the number is three times the density of water.
However, the moon isn't necessarily ALL water. Using figures I got from (no kidding) Yahoo Answers, the volume of the Moon is 2.2 x 1010 km3. If it was all water and my previous estimate was correct, that's about 5 times as much as necessary to flood the Earth to the top of Mt Everest.
I wonder what else God has hidden in there. Maybe a giant electromagnet?
Quiet you. I am trying to solve one of the great theological mysteries of mankind, and do NOT need to be bothered with facts.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Veladio » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:32 pm
by Ruridova » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:35 pm
by The Merchant Republics » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:39 pm
by Leepaidamba » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:40 pm
Veladio wrote:Kvatchdom wrote:The human race nor any other race could reproduce to the level we have today with only two of the species.
Well actually, the humans would have had Noah, his Wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. But still not enough for a viable population.
EDIT: NOTE: I do not believe this, I'm just correcting the statement.
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by Ruridova » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:42 pm
by The Merchant Republics » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:43 pm
Leepaidamba wrote:Veladio wrote:Well actually, the humans would have had Noah, his Wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. But still not enough for a viable population.
EDIT: NOTE: I do not believe this, I'm just correcting the statement.
Also, that must mean that there were no more than four of each chromosome, excluding abnormalities like Down syndrome, which couldn't possibly account for the genetic diversity of the Khoi-San and Sub-Saharans in general.
by Veladio » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:44 pm
The Merchant Republics wrote:Is all that plausible? Sorta-ish, maybe, with a wee side of meh.
But you're dipping your foot into the shark tank that is NSG on religion without even a worthwhile goal. Even supposing we could prove Genesis to be whole-cloth accurate in any shape of the word, it's nothing to most Atheists, you've at best proven the Jews to be much better historians than they had previously believed. God is not necessary in any of the tales of Genesis, as silly as that may be to you or I, it's simply true there is no story in the Bible in which God can't be replaced with "and then it just happened". Proving the Bible to be literally factual will do nothing more to advance our Christian God than proving the Iliad's Troy to be a true place has advanced our beliefs in the Greek Pantheon. To be frank, what we find is more circumstantial evidence but until we find God's fingerprint on the darkside of the moon (note: I'm not imply that God actually has a fingerprint on the moon) we're not going to be able to tie Him to creation no matter how much seems to point to Him.
Apologist to me is useful only as a shield for those wavering in faith, a useful tool to let those who believe realize their beliefs are not as silly as they are told. It's effectiveness in getting non-believers on our side is... so far as I have seen weak to near ineffective.
As for me, I've taken to seeing the flood as the story it was meant to be, most Atheists even admit to the historicity of the flood in that there was certainly a period in which Mesopotamian society was all but wiped out by one. In reality that is all we need to prove and it is well evidenced for that purpose. We need not assume God had to flood the entire world for the meaning and more importantly truth of the story to ring true. Only to wipe out the bulk of human society which was then indeed concentrated along the Euphrates.
by Ruridova » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:44 pm
by Veladio » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:46 pm
The Merchant Republics wrote:Leepaidamba wrote:Also, that must mean that there were no more than four of each chromosome, excluding abnormalities like Down syndrome, which couldn't possibly account for the genetic diversity of the Khoi-San and Sub-Saharans in general.
Well, though again I'm note advocating Noah's Ark as whole cloth literal.
Shem, Ham and Japeth all had wives prior to the Flood who came along with them. A genetically viable population at 8? Not likely but, then we're assuming this to be a work of God, I'm thinking if we wish to believe it as a wholly accurate thing then He could certainly mess around with their genetics and those of their immediate descendents so that they could be genetically viable.
by NASO American Unified States » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:46 pm
by AiliailiA » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:46 pm
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Veladio » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:48 pm
Ailiailia wrote:Veladio wrote:Well actually, the humans would have had Noah, his Wife, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
Gen 7:7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood.
As many as 5 different bloodlines. Fewer if the wives were sisters of each other, but more if Noah's sons weren't all his by blood. Which isn't inconceivable given that he was 600 years old ... I'm not Ageist or anything but ick.
by Tlaceceyaya » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:50 pm
The Merchant Republics wrote:Is all that plausible? Sorta-ish, maybe, with a wee side of meh.
But you're dipping your foot into the shark tank that is NSG on religion without even a worthwhile goal. Even supposing we could prove Genesis to be whole-cloth accurate in any shape of the word, it's nothing to most Atheists, you've at best proven the Jews to be much better historians than they had previously believed. God is not necessary in any of the tales of Genesis, as silly as that may be to you or I, it's simply true there is no story in the Bible in which God can't be replaced with "and then it just happened". Proving the Bible to be literally factual will do nothing more to advance our Christian God than proving the Iliad's Troy to be a true place has advanced our beliefs in the Greek Pantheon. To be frank, what we find is more circumstantial evidence but until we find God's fingerprint on the darkside of the moon (note: I'm not imply that God actually has a fingerprint on the moon) we're not going to be able to tie Him to creation no matter how much seems to point to Him.
Apologist to me is useful only as a shield for those wavering in faith, a useful tool to let those who believe realize their beliefs are not as silly as they are told. It's effectiveness in getting non-believers on our side is... so far as I have seen weak to near ineffective.
As for me, I've taken to seeing the flood as the story it was meant to be, most Atheists even admit to the historicity of the flood in that there was certainly a period in which Mesopotamian society was all but wiped out by one. In reality that is all we need to prove and it is well evidenced for that purpose. We need not assume God had to flood the entire world for the meaning and more importantly truth of the story to ring true. Only to wipe out the bulk of human society which was then indeed concentrated along the Euphrates.
Dimitri Tsafendas wrote:You are guilty not only when you commit a crime, but also when you do nothing to prevent it when you have the chance.
by Ruridova » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:52 pm
by The Merchant Republics » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:57 pm
Veladio wrote:1) He hasn't proved anything about the skill of the Jews at being historians.
2) I thought Troy was discovered in an archeological dig?
3) How does creation point to god?
4) Even if that were true...1 female and 4 males (That were also related)...would not be enough to reestablish a viable population along the Euphrates.
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