Is American exceptionalism a threat to the world?

[Cassidino]

I'm an American and I think American exceptionalism (AKA nationalism) is a threat not only to the world but to the US itself. We've reached the point where we can't fix half the problems plaguing the country due to some pig-headed idea that the only viable solutions would be "un-American." Until our ego deflates a bit, we'll continue to fall farther and farther behind the rest of the world in many basic measures of our standard of living.

^THIS

[Drekka]

I'm an American and I think American exceptionalism (AKA nationalism) is a threat not only to the world but to the US itself. We've reached the point where we can't fix half the problems plaguing the country due to some pig-headed idea that the only viable solutions would be "un-American." Until our ego deflates a bit, we'll continue to fall farther and farther behind the rest of the world in many basic measures of our standard of living.

^THIS

(OOC: I'm 'merican and know what I'm talking about here)

^THIS

until we get rid of the "commie scum" attitude towards
The superior socialist/ regulated capitalism style of economy , we will continue to
decline under our standardized corrupted government, leading
to a global Depression 2.

Just ask the Scandinavians oh how terrible socialism is

[Republika Jugoslavija]

^THIS

(OOC: I'm 'merican and know what I'm talking about here)

^THIS

until we get rid of the "commie scum" attitude towards
The superior socialist/ regulated capitalism style of economy , we will continue to
decline under our standardized corrupted government, leading
to a global Depression 2.

Just ask the Scandinavians oh how terrible socialism is

Are you talking about the same Scandinavia where the largest clothing retailer in Sweden has done away with the "boys" and "girls" section, declaring that "clothing is clothing" and that young boys should be free to wear bras and panties and dress as they wish.

Are you talking about the same Scandinavia where in Denmark they hand out condoms to 6th graders?

Is this the same Scandinavia where in Sweden they are now pushing for the removal of ALL urinals from public bathrooms and the requirement that men sit down to urinate.

I don't want to live in a land that does not respect private property and the integrity of the family unit.


Ultimately there will be capital flight and brain drain out of the USA, it is inevitable with the present policies in place. They are already anticipating it, hence the laws restricting the removal of more than $10,000 in cash from the USA, and a recent court ruling that Americans have no inherent or constitutional right to leave the USA. There was a case in Florida about 8 years ago involving a man who was approximately $5,000 behind in child support, he applied for a passport and was turned down because of it. He filed suit, the lower court sided against him, he appealed, the circuit court of appeals declared that he has no inherent right to a passport and that his so-called "right to travel" is satisfied by travel within his state and amongst the states of the USA, and that Americans have no inherent freedom to leave the United States.

Get ready for the USA to be turned into the largest and most miserable prison nation in the history of the world. If you want to leave you'll be lucky if you get out alive with the clothing on your back. The marxist government of Obama will continue the marxist policies of Bush, hand over huge amounts of money to the party elite and the commissars, while pillaging the countryside and stripping the people of what is rightly theirs.



Ultimately America can implement policies along the lines of what Sweden, Denmark, and Norway are doing, but expect brain drain. Turn America into Sweden and I'll have no problem packing up and moving to Ukraine. You can try to import third world serfs from CHina to design and maintain your damn infrastructure and run your damn power plants and do all the other aspects of engineering. Maybe you can import Indians to work in the hospitals. Freedom minded White Americans will either leave or rise up in rebellion, I'm open for either.

America isn't the land of opportunity anymore, it is the land of paperwork, bureaucracy, red-tape, and zoning/code enforcement. There's not much potential for upward social mobility because little men are not allowed to start their own business unless they have $20,000 dollars to spend on lawyers, accountants, paperwork processing, and often, bribes for local officials.

I only hope that if America is morphed into a degenerate nation such as Sweden, that enough fellow technicians, engineers, skilled professional people, will leave with me, so that the nation falls into complete ruin and the marxists can be left freezing in the dark.



America suffers because of lack of freedom, not because of lack of nanny state and lack of an over-arching omni-present government that has the power to give anything/everything to anybody/everybody. Governments have no income, they only have what they take, and when the wealth-eaters out-number the wealth-producers, when there are more takers than makers, the system is ripe for collapse.

[Republika Jugoslavija]

I imagine if we took a political survey by occupation, we would find that some occupations are overwhelmingly conservative/constitutionalist/pro-private property.

Just my gut feeling...

Farmers/ranchers

Engineers/technicians

Doctors (in private/family practice)

Dentists (in private/family practice)

Small business owners




It is highly likely that people in the aforementioned categories would be overwhelmingly conservative and supportive of private property rights.



I suspect that people such as journalists, teachers, liberal arts professors, artists (especially those who produce modern "art"), state/local/federal government employees, and other people who cannot definitively establish what exactly it is they do to maintain/support the infrastructure of the nation and keep society/civilization running, would probably be overwhelmingly liberal and in favor of a big government nanny state that engages in wealth transfers conducted under the threat of imprisonment or death at the hands of police (hired goons).


Ultimately all governments will degenerate into organized criminal cartels.

[Napkiraly]

1) True.
2) More to the nation than the government (among a lot of other things), but yes this is true. It is possible to be a nationalist and be against the current government, see certain far-right Republicans for example.
3) No, not really.
4) Debatable in regards to if it's the best nation on the planet.
5) What demographic crisis is this? Sure America has an ageing population, but it's a lot worse than other places. Also immigration and high birth rates among recent immigrants tend to even it out.
6) Actually I'd rate most nations being between a D+ or a C-. There aren't that many failed nations, though there are quite a few close to it. I'd say 7
7) America is more of a B- to B+. It has a lot of problems, but overall it isn't bad as most other countries.

The demographic crisis is simple. 1)America was a nation founded by Western/Northern Europeans, explicitly for their benefit and the benefit of their posterity. 2)America had a 92% European population as recently as 1965. It presently has a population that is barely 60% European, and falling fast. 3)I would call that a demographic crisis. 4)The replacement of an advanced first world civilized population with a third world peasant serf population.

5)It is dysgenics in the worst form. 6)The largest wealth transfers in the history of the world are underway and ongoing. Productive Europeans are taxed to death to the point that most can scarcely afford one or two children, 7)while irresponsible invaders, 8.aliens, 9)asylum seekers (whatever term you want to use to describe the third world refuse washing up in any given Western nation) are provided everything they need by the state so they can feed the 10-12 children they have whom would otherwise starve to death.

Where o where, do I begin.
1)America was founded for the benefit of the countries that colonized it and later on the former colonists. It is not there for the benefit of whites only, such thinking is silly and illogical. America exists to establish, grow upon, and protect the benefits and rights of Americans--regardless of skin colour.

2)Who cares? Honestly, there is no war against white people. The drop due to immigration and white people not popping out four kids. You'll find that the children of immigrants to tend to have more or less the same birth rate as the national average. Also, did you know that the majority of Hispanics are classified as white? Of course they aren't going to be white to you, now will they.

3)I'd call that there being lots of immigration from non-white countries, so their share of the population goes up. With a little over 223 million Americans being considered white, I don't think white people are in danger of disappearing--and for that matter never will face that risk if you understand basic genetics.

4)If you're talking about lots of minorities living in poverty, you can thank the broken education system and having piss poor social mobility. It can be fixed if people invest and work hard at it. Other 'races', and I use that term grudgingly since there is no such thing, are just as capable of accomplishing the same thing as white people. They are not serfs, they are human beings, capable of doing all sorts of amazing things under the right circumstances.

5)Not really. Most people still tend to get married, have relations, and have kids with members of their own races. Of course this rate is higher but nothing to worry about for a white supremacist such as yourself. Even if mixed children become the majority world wide, as I stated before, if you understand basic genetics you'll understand why white people will never disappear--ever. Well, unless the sun goes supernova, then we all disappear.

6)The tax burden in Europe is overblown to a ridiculous degree. Even then, the systems in place ensure it's not that much of a hassle to take care of your children. The drop is do women joining the workforce in significant numbers and deciding to have children later, as well as more effective ways of limiting the amount of children they want i.e. having access to abortions and contraceptives. Note this is usually true for most groups, recent immigrants withstanding.

7)Native born people are just as capable of being irresponsible as immigrants. They higher numbers are due to socioeconomic reasons, disenfranchisement, and not having access to a lower standard of education. These can be fixed.

8.Immigrants are people. Aliens are little grey beings who like to eat recently resurrected birds.

9)Oh yes, allowing people to escape war-zones is so horrific. I mean, why don't they stay there and starve, get raped, and shot? If they come here with basically nothing, well that's there problem. It doesn't matter if they barely had anything to begin with. If they are so persistent, why should we pay for them? It's not like having them live in shitty conditions is going to have any negative impact on the country. Oh wait, yes it will.

[Corporate Councils]

I only hope that if America is morphed into a degenerate nation such as Sweden, that enough fellow technicians, engineers, skilled professional people, will leave with me, so that the nation falls into complete ruin and the marxists can be left freezing in the dark.

By all means feel free to leave. If you think that the US is "Marxist", then I encourage you to give Somalia a try, I hear they've almost done away with government altogether.

[GoTulsaShock]

We have the power of China with the freedom of Europe. Why should we not be a bit proud of ourselves?

[New Sapienta]

We have the power of China with the freedom of Europe. Why should we not be a bit proud of ourselves?

We're not as free as Europe, and we're more powerful than China.

[GoTulsaShock]

We have the power of China with the freedom of Europe. Why should we not be a bit proud of ourselves?

We're not as free as Europe, and we're more powerful than China.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ke_Green
Oh, you're serious.

[New Sapienta]

We're not as free as Europe, and we're more powerful than China.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ke_Green
Oh, you're serious.

A single incident in Sweden.

Oh noes.

[GoTulsaShock]

HAHAHAHAHAHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ke_Green
Oh, you're serious.

A single incident in Sweden.

Oh noes.

An instrument that illustrates why America is freer than Europe.

[New Sapienta]

A single incident in Sweden.

Oh noes.

An instrument that illustrates why America is freer than Europe.

No, an instrament that shows America is freer than Seden in a single regard.

[GoTulsaShock]

An instrument that illustrates why America is freer than Europe.

No, an instrament that shows America is freer than Seden in a single regard.

That single regard being speech.

[New Sapienta]

No, an instrament that shows America is freer than Seden in a single regard.

That single regard being speech.

A single area of the freedom of speech, hate speech.

[Napkiraly]

We're not as free as Europe, and we're more powerful than China.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ke_Green
Oh, you're serious.

I hope you realise that he was acquitted, and that the Swedish Supreme Court recognized that if it went to the European Court of Human Rights the conviction most likely would not have been upheld.

[Codzania]

The OP's whole arument is entirely built on misconceptions and stereotypes. I personally don't think there is a perfect nation out there. All nations have positives and negatives. We could not and do not go to war on religious grounds. Iraq was a moronic war that bush fought over supposed WMD's. Afghanistan was in response to 9/11. No one in this country sees the founding fathers as "divine". We respect them and owe our independance to them, but we don't worship them or believe they were appointed by some deity. None of our Presidents have ever claimed to have been appointed by a deity either, and if they tried to start a war over religion, you can bet that they'd be kicked out of office. Sure, many Americans are proud of our nation's accomplishments such as the Moon landing, helping to win WWII, and numerous other technological and cultural innovations. We are by no means perfect, we certainly have had dark spots in our history, but what nation hasn't? I think it's a bit unfair to pick on the US and Americans when most of the people that target us have done far worse in their history. For example, when the British Empire was still going strong, it was almost entirely occupied with invading undeveloped countries, enslaving the indiginous population and raping the land of natural resources. When slavery was abolished, all of those native people to those conquered areas were still treated as second class citizens until they finally broke away from British rule.

[Call to power]

I think he means land belonging to real people. You know. White, English-speaking ones. Preferably protestants.

Well there was the attempt to annex Canada, what kind of degenerate society picks on Canada?

Again, you conflate rhetoric with actions. America wanted to go west because there was a lot of land and resources out there, Manifest Destiny was a philosophical fiction that justified the clearing out of anybody who happened to be living on the land we wanted.

And I have quite clearly explained that manifest destiny has been around both before and after westward expansion. It is not a cleverly invented fiction from the 1800's but an American cultural phenomenon with roots into the English civil war.

Also, though Bush used some fiery words about people being with us or against us, did he actually take the actions to back it up? The answer is not really, because it turns out that American leaders aren't so ignorant of realpolitik. If he and the rest of the American leaders were actually as batshit insane and willing to turn on our allies at a moment's notice, we would have invaded France for their unwillingness to support our invasion of Iraq (which was really a lot of confusion by what they meant by support) instead of had a stupid campaign to rename "french fries" to "freedom fries".

I'm highlighting a dangerous way of thinking here, yes the United States never attacked France but there was also a period of intense coldness between the two and it goes on to highlight the kind of way America views itself.

I will go on to add, as I have already mentioned that, these sorts of statements are fairly alien outside of the US because it is political suicide to talk this way in anywhere but the US.

Though we do view him as a secular saint of sorts, you severely overestimate how much his opinions have on actual American policy. Washington also argued against political parties and involvement in international affairs. We've abandoned any actual adherence to his ideals since 1800.

What I'm getting at is the manichean view of a conflict against evil overrules both international law and the people the US seeks to emulate. This is a problem as we have demonstrably seen in the American use of torture on innocent people, its an outlook of a final conflict with no quarter.

I am fairly certain no one still believes in exceptionalism. And I have just as much data to back that up as the OP does for his statement.

Well then go ahead and produce, but you're wrong.

[Nuloneto]

I was under the impression that American Exceptionalism wasn't about America being perfect, but about America being special because it was planned founded on an idea, and not just naturally formed.

[SaintB]

If American exceptionalism is a threat it is more of a threat to the United States than it is to anyone else. Eventually the whole world will take exception to our exceptionalism and refuse to accept us.

[Divair]

That single regard being speech.

A single area of the freedom of speech, hate speech.

And it was acquitted.

[Priory Academy USSR]

Ah, let the poor little American think he's special. There's no point ruining his dream, is there?

Really, though, every nation has thought it was special because it was powerful. The Europeans thought that they were the most important race for a while in the 19th Century: see this poem for the source. They thought that they were the best as they were in charge, but now we know that's not true. Same with America, although with less racism. They think they're special because they were based on democracy/are very big/ beat the Soviets or whatever, but in the end they'll just decline (NOT fall. Very few empire actually fell in a short period of time-even the Romans survived in the Byzantines for a 1000 years) like the rest of us.

[Luziyca]

Absolutely. It is a threat, because with the exceptionalist thinking, it gives further impetus, to expand it, to colonize nations by imposing their own models on other nations, and deriding viable solutions, such as Juche and Songun as "un-American." Oh, and before you say, "it is NOT viable," consider this.

There are three nations, each like a family member.

Russia is like a Babushka, a grandmother who welcomes you all the time.
Korea is like your Father, strict but loving.
Then, there is the USA, a teenager who is lazy, and when faced with problems, colonizes nations.

It is a threat to everyone, even themselves, and I am certain that everyone wants to see Juche in the USA. Anything but their current system of wage slavery. But, no, the government does not want anyone to support parties but Republicans and Democrats. So, they distract them by hiring celebrities, those loyal to the party line, so nobody pays attention to the reality that is outside. But, as they realize less AND less people support them, they have to hire celebrities from overseas (e.g. Justin Beiber. Yes, you heard it, he was hired BY THE GOVERNMENT to distract the populace).

In essence, the modern celebrity is like the concept of "panem et circenses", a superficial means to DISTRACT the populace from the vaporization that is the American Dream. So long as they get their bread and circuses, the people will not care. When it vanishes, they'll discover the truth of their situation and rise up to bring true freedom in the USA. But, with their bread and circuses, they could be placated. Thus, the celebrity is a distraction to PROMOTE exceptionalism, by telling them to see them, instead of reality because that is what THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

No country is better than the DPRK, and even then, it is still not perfect. The problem, is that they think their country is perfect. So perfect, that they are willing to colonize other nations.

Also, Hiroshima.

[Transhuman Proteus]

(OOC: I'm 'merican and know what I'm talking about here)

^THIS

until we get rid of the "commie scum" attitude towards
The superior socialist/ regulated capitalism style of economy , we will continue to
decline under our standardized corrupted government, leading
to a global Depression 2.

Just ask the Scandinavians oh how terrible socialism is

Are you talking about the same Scandinavia where the largest clothing retailer in Sweden has done away with the "boys" and "girls" section, declaring that "clothing is clothing" and that young boys should be free to wear bras and panties and dress as they wish.

Well, they should be free wear what they wish, including bras and panties (and girls should be free to dress as they wish too). Why shouldn't they?

Are you talking about the same Scandinavia where in Denmark they hand out condoms to 6th graders?

Not sure if that is actually happening, but how is Denmark doing teen pregnancy/STD wise compared to the US? (I do believe they are doing better, so Denmark's sex education programs seem to be working).

Is this the same Scandinavia where in Sweden they are now pushing for the removal of ALL urinals from public bathrooms and the requirement that men sit down to urinate.

Most houses don't have urinals, men just lift the seat.

But from what I understand of that story is that its blown out of proportion. There is some feminist groups pushing that, but it is hardly a major plank in the government platform.

I don't want to live in a land that does not respect private property and the integrity of the family unit.

Funnily enough not a single example you provided seems to be evidence of private property or the integrity of the family unit not being supported.

Ultimately there will be capital flight and brain drain out of the USA, it is inevitable with the present policies in place. They are already anticipating it, hence the laws restricting the removal of more than $10,000 in cash from the USA, and a recent court ruling that Americans have no inherent or constitutional right to leave the USA. There was a case in Florida about 8 years ago involving a man who was approximately $5,000 behind in child support, he applied for a passport and was turned down because of it. He filed suit, the lower court sided against him, he appealed, the circuit court of appeals declared that he has no inherent right to a passport and that his so-called "right to travel" is satisfied by travel within his state and amongst the states of the USA, and that Americans have no inherent freedom to leave the United States.

Get ready for the USA to be turned into the largest and most miserable prison nation in the history of the world. If you want to leave you'll be lucky if you get out alive with the clothing on your back. The marxist government of Obama will continue the marxist policies of Bush, hand over huge amounts of money to the party elite and the commissars, while pillaging the countryside and stripping the people of what is rightly theirs.

Ultimately America can implement policies along the lines of what Sweden, Denmark, and Norway are doing, but expect brain drain. Turn America into Sweden and I'll have no problem packing up and moving to Ukraine. You can try to import third world serfs from CHina to design and maintain your damn infrastructure and run your damn power plants and do all the other aspects of engineering. Maybe you can import Indians to work in the hospitals. Freedom minded White Americans will either leave or rise up in rebellion, I'm open for either.

You'll move to the Ukraine if US department stores put the boys and girls clothing sections together?

I don't know what it was about that paragraph, but something struck me as slightly racist.

I only hope that if America is morphed into a degenerate nation such as Sweden, that enough fellow technicians, engineers, skilled professional people, will leave with me, so that the nation falls into complete ruin and the marxists can be left freezing in the dark.

I've been to Sweden, its rather lovely. One thing I noticed was that it hasn't fallen into complete ruin despite the policies you seem to think are degenerate. Or even partial ruin. Or even quarter ruin.

It's hard to say "Change your ways Or you'll end up like THEM!!!!" and then point at Sweden, since Sweden isn't bad.

[Big Jim P]

No. Like it or not, right now America is top dog, and the only serious competitor for that title is smart enough not to alienate their best customer. In time (again, like it or not depending on your viewpoint) another nation/culture will supplant the U.S.

[Miss Defied]

"We learned it from you, dad. We learned it by watching you!"