Is American exceptionalism a threat to the world?

[Sidhae]

There have been only two other people besides Americans who have at some point of their history declared themselves to have a mission from God/manifest destiny. Those people are the Jews and the Nazis. Both of them would have their own special way of fucking up the world, but Americans, or more precisely, their leaders easily top them all.

I mean, the Jews were never interested in anyone else besides themselves, and Nazis wouldn't go as far as to proclaim it their mission to spread their ideology and lifestyle to the entire world (quite the opposite, actually). Nor would either of them wage wars under the pretext of bringing freedom and democracy, making do with good old-fashioned conquest for an excuse.

[Codzania]

Absolutely. It is a threat, because with the exceptionalist thinking, it gives further impetus, to expand it, to colonize nations by imposing their own models on other nations, and deriding viable solutions, such as Juche and Songun as "un-American." Oh, and before you say, "it is NOT viable," consider this.

There are three nations, each like a family member.

Russia is like a Babushka, a grandmother who welcomes you all the time.
Korea is like your Father, strict but loving.
Then, there is the USA, a teenager who is lazy, and when faced with problems, colonizes nations.

It is a threat to everyone, even themselves, and I am certain that everyone wants to see Juche in the USA. Anything but their current system of wage slavery. But, no, the government does not want anyone to support parties but Republicans and Democrats. So, they distract them by hiring celebrities, those loyal to the party line, so nobody pays attention to the reality that is outside. But, as they realize less AND less people support them, they have to hire celebrities from overseas (e.g. Justin Beiber. Yes, you heard it, he was hired BY THE GOVERNMENT to distract the populace).

In essence, the modern celebrity is like the concept of "panem et circenses", a superficial means to DISTRACT the populace from the vaporization that is the American Dream. So long as they get their bread and circuses, the people will not care. When it vanishes, they'll discover the truth of their situation and rise up to bring true freedom in the USA. But, with their bread and circuses, they could be placated. Thus, the celebrity is a distraction to PROMOTE exceptionalism, by telling them to see them, instead of reality because that is what THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

No country is better than the DPRK, and even then, it is still not perfect. The problem, is that they think their country is perfect. So perfect, that they are willing to colonize other nations.

Also, Hiroshima.

What the fuck are you smoking?

[Codzania]

There have been only two other people besides Americans who have at some point of their history declared themselves to have a mission from God/manifest destiny. Those people are the Jews and the Nazis. Both of them would have their own special way of fucking up the world, but Americans, or more precisely, their leaders easily top them all.

I mean, the Jews were never interested in anyone else besides themselves, and Nazis wouldn't go as far as to proclaim it their mission to spread their ideology and lifestyle to the entire world (quite the opposite, actually). Nor would either of them wage wars under the pretext of bringing freedom and democracy, making do with good old-fashioned conquest for an excuse.

I can't fucking believe you're saying that the Nazis are better than Americans. When was the last time we grabbed a few million people from their homes and tossed them into camps and gas chambers? When was the last time we entered a war of conquest against half the world?

[Luziyca]

Absolutely. It is a threat, because with the exceptionalist thinking, it gives further impetus, to expand it, to colonize nations by imposing their own models on other nations, and deriding viable solutions, such as Juche and Songun as "un-American." Oh, and before you say, "it is NOT viable," consider this.

There are three nations, each like a family member.

Russia is like a Babushka, a grandmother who welcomes you all the time.
Korea is like your Father, strict but loving.
Then, there is the USA, a teenager who is lazy, and when faced with problems, colonizes nations.

It is a threat to everyone, even themselves, and I am certain that everyone wants to see Juche in the USA. Anything but their current system of wage slavery. But, no, the government does not want anyone to support parties but Republicans and Democrats. So, they distract them by hiring celebrities, those loyal to the party line, so nobody pays attention to the reality that is outside. But, as they realize less AND less people support them, they have to hire celebrities from overseas (e.g. Justin Beiber. Yes, you heard it, he was hired BY THE GOVERNMENT to distract the populace).

In essence, the modern celebrity is like the concept of "panem et circenses", a superficial means to DISTRACT the populace from the vaporization that is the American Dream. So long as they get their bread and circuses, the people will not care. When it vanishes, they'll discover the truth of their situation and rise up to bring true freedom in the USA. But, with their bread and circuses, they could be placated. Thus, the celebrity is a distraction to PROMOTE exceptionalism, by telling them to see them, instead of reality because that is what THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

No country is better than the DPRK, and even then, it is still not perfect. The problem, is that they think their country is perfect. So perfect, that they are willing to colonize other nations.

Also, Hiroshima.

What the fuck are you smoking?

NSG.

[Krownsinburg]

Not a thread specifically about 'American exceptionalism' but rather I use this in the title to distinguish this from the many threads asking what people think of America.

I am sure we are all aware that the US has stereotypically viewed itself as the perfect form of government at the end of history (à la Fukuyama) and Gods Kingdom on Earth. There is not much debating the existence of this belief that has manifested itself from the very first puritan settlers or otherwise trying to put it in comparison to how other nations have viewed their place in the world (yeah, hyper-religious Ugandans are basically Britain's fault but try and find anything in Disraeli that matches Neo-conservative foreign policy).

The question is just how dangerous this makes the United States; one of the few nations of the world in which its leaders can talk of God telling them to go to war, one that will actively ignore the truth when it challenges its view of reality, and one that imposes its model onto the world. Similar regimes may have existed in Revolutionary France or Soviet Russia but the US variant of a capitalist end of history has been projecting itself for over 200 years now and remains embedded in the American conciousness. Make no mistake the biggest flaw in any post-apocalyptic story is the lack of little American flags everywhere even after the bombs fall.

Its not enough to merely put this away as simple flag waving or the evil shenanigans of an elite, we have a nation using demonology in its language in a war against "terror" which is not bound by secular law (or the opinions of its divine founding fathers), with a lobby that is actively working towards the final confrontation with evil on the plains of Armageddon. The American population is batshit and could at any moment turn on its allies -as I suppose it has already done so with the abduction and torture of foreign citizens. Not bound by law or reason.

So far no nation since the fall of communism has posed a threat to the United States and its only conceivable opponents are either a humbled Russia that thankfully has its own disorder of Orthodox opposition or a China that refuses to confront the US. This does not of course mean that organizations such as the European Union cannot be painted as agents of the devil despite its place as a bastion of neo-liberal thought and it does not mean that our current world order is stable but rather that currently America can afford to ignore reality.

The question of the thread then is what happens when the America can no longer afford to ignore reality and how it comes to terms with that when in the next century it may find itself in 1965 all over again -only this time as a declining power. We know what happens to madmen in the face of adversity, will the same be true when it comes to a question of nuclear war and how can the rest of the world seek to stop that from occurring?

You just described stereotypical America, bro.

We know our country isn't perfect, and we don't go to war because God told us too, and we don't believe our country is God's Kingdom on Earth.

Infact, Atheism has become a popular trend in America's youth.

Saying were some over-religious hubris people that put Religion in Government affairs is basically calling us Iran.

Try again, this time, read a book about the USA, and not some foreign online dictionary.

[East Luisa]

Interesting that people here seem to believe America IS founded on Christianity, when most Americans are trying to insist that it isn't.

Regardless, I think you're confusing American exceptionalism with American imperialism. I don't think either of them really pose a threat to the rest of the world: If we wanted to kill you, we'd have done it already. We have far too much... ahem... BULLSHIT going on in our own country to give two fucks about you. And, to be honest, if the rest of the world destroyed itself I wouldn't really mind, just as long as the McDonald's is still open.

All kidding aside, America's economy is by far the most powerful in the world (at least for a little while longer), and the fighting spirit of our troops is something to be said for. But we've grown fat on our warless nation, having gone uninvaded for hundreds of years (I don't count Pearl Harbor as in 'invasion'); most Americans, judging by their political apathy, don't care too awful much about anything that happens outside their little bubble. So, our fighting spirit would have to be rekindled and it would really have to be for a good cause. If the non-US world was able to unify, they would defeat the US anyway (look at Vietnam for that), so I don't think America is any sort of militaristic threat without a Hitleresque indoctrination taking place first.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Depends. While it's there, it's something that seems to be falling out of favor. The exceptionalists who are into this stuff you bring up as foreign policy are put on the back burner while exceptionalists who would rather stay home and pretend nothing is changing outside are rising to prominence within the party structure that promotes that.

I think we'll see America get back to something everyone can mostly get along with, aside from people like Gadaffi or bin Laden, because they're shit. Bush gave us all the crazy right wing exceptionalist foreign policy the world could handle, really, and he's tainted that brand pretty handily.

[Republika Jugoslavija]

Most houses don't have urinals, men just lift the seat.
.

Hence I said "public bathrooms" and not houses.

[Republika Jugoslavija]

There have been only two other people besides Americans who have at some point of their history declared themselves to have a mission from God/manifest destiny. Those people are the Jews and the Nazis. Both of them would have their own special way of fucking up the world, but Americans, or more precisely, their leaders easily top them all.

I mean, the Jews were never interested in anyone else besides themselves, and Nazis wouldn't go as far as to proclaim it their mission to spread their ideology and lifestyle to the entire world (quite the opposite, actually). Nor would either of them wage wars under the pretext of bringing freedom and democracy, making do with good old-fashioned conquest for an excuse.

As a National Socialist two-seedliner, it is my mission to proclaim the message of God and the liberating anti-capitalist, anti-globalist, anti-internationalist, anti-marxist, values of National Socialism, to those who will listen. I want to win them out of communism in a fashion similar to how Hitler won Goebbels out of marxism (back in "the day" Goebbels was a socialist/marxist activist before Hitler won him over into the proper camp of the NSDAP).


People who are coerced into confessing belief are people who are ready for betrayal the moment you and your system are faced with a setback and appear weak. Besides, people need to make the commitment to the program because they feel the overwhelmingly boundless love for their volk and God and decide that they are going to do the right thing, not because they are converting under threat of violence.

[Indira]

Most of the American's I've met here are generally aware that America isn't perfect, so I would ask for sources to back your claim.

1. I made a point early on of mentioning stereotypically for the very reason of keeping 'dats racis' types like yourself away.

I didn't invoke the 'dats rascist' claim. Nice strawman, but on NSG, you make a claim like that, you back it up.

2. A very depressing statistic comes from a Newsweek poll which found that:

Twenty-nine percent believe the United States is a Christian nation, and another 16 percent believe the United States is a Biblical nation, defined by the Judeo-Christian tradition.

CNN -which is sourcing a Newsweek poll

A large slice of the American public at the time of the poll believed that the US was a Christian nation. I will let you have a think about what that entails and why, in contrast to Blair, Bush presented an image of an evangelical Christian leader.

29%? That leaves 71% who don't. Or, if you add the 16% who believe that the US is a Biblical nation and you still have 64% of people who disagree with that idea.

As for America falling, I really don't see that happening until the next century at least.

Its not such a case of America falling in some dramatic way but rather the emergence of great powers that can challenge it on their home turf and how America reacts to this. For instance see the insane paranoia at the moment in reference to China.

But your OP says FALL not faces competition. Be clear or NSG will tear you to pieces

[Nordengrund]

America is God's Kingdom on Earth? I think the exact opposite.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

America isn't a threat to the world, we're the only hope it has.

*looks at the American leadership*

We're doomed.

[Call to power]

We know our country isn't perfect, and we don't go to war because God told us too, and we don't believe our country is God's Kingdom on Earth.

Yeah you do, read the rest of the thread.

Infact, Atheism has become a popular trend in America's youth.

This is not actually strictly relevant when it is the mentality that has continued and when the evangelical elements of the US hold a sway over the democratic process.

Saying were some over-religious hubris people that put Religion in Government affairs is basically calling us Iran.

Oh dear, but just for a laugh I will point out that both nations have had some level of debate on whether their head of state adheres to Islam

Try again, this time, read a book about the USA, and not some foreign online dictionary.

I've not really used any big words in this thread so right now I just have that image in my head of 'So I stood up and told that teachin lady...'

Interesting that people here seem to believe America IS founded on Christianity, when most Americans are trying to insist that it isn't.

Please read the first page before choosing to make your opinion heard

But your OP says FALL not faces competition. Be clear or NSG will tear you to pieces

I could argue semantics over what fall actually entails but I figure it would be better to wave my nerd dick and say I've been here for over 7 years and haven't really noticed danger.

Depends. While it's there, it's something that seems to be falling out of favor. The exceptionalists who are into this stuff you bring up as foreign policy are put on the back burner while exceptionalists who would rather stay home and pretend nothing is changing outside are rising to prominence within the party structure that promotes that.

But its plainly obvious that it is an ebb and flow process.

Bush gave us all the crazy right wing exceptionalist foreign policy the world could handle, really, and he's tainted that brand pretty handily.

Dunno, scaremongering following the Arab spring comes to mind as does the increasing use of drone strikes in foreign nations.

[Seleucas]

Currently? Yes, American exceptionalism is a threat to the world. As you mention, its worldview is both messianic and myopic, seeing itself as being the divinely-appointed protector of the world with the most flawless government that must meddle in the world's affairs, and what compromises it makes to this worldview are almost always short-sighted and focused on immediate gain at long-term costs. Fortunately, such a pattern can only be sustained for so long, and the US is shaping up to be one of the shortest lived empires in human history. A reversion to a multipolar world, after the United States has thoroughly exhausted itself, is more or less a certainty.

[Republika Jugoslavija]

Currently? Yes, American exceptionalism is a threat to the world. As you mention, its worldview is both messianic and myopic, seeing itself as being the divinely-appointed protector of the world with the most flawless government that must meddle in the world's affairs, and what compromises it makes to this worldview are almost always short-sighted and focused on immediate gain at long-term costs. Fortunately, such a pattern can only be sustained for so long, and the US is shaping up to be one of the shortest lived empires in human history. A reversion to a multipolar world, after the United States has thoroughly exhausted itself, is more or less a certainty.

As much as I hope for the end of the unipolar world with the US Empire, I would prefer to see the US Empire end/recede in a way that does not result in massive suffering in the USA.

[Seleucas]

Currently? Yes, American exceptionalism is a threat to the world. As you mention, its worldview is both messianic and myopic, seeing itself as being the divinely-appointed protector of the world with the most flawless government that must meddle in the world's affairs, and what compromises it makes to this worldview are almost always short-sighted and focused on immediate gain at long-term costs. Fortunately, such a pattern can only be sustained for so long, and the US is shaping up to be one of the shortest lived empires in human history. A reversion to a multipolar world, after the United States has thoroughly exhausted itself, is more or less a certainty.

As much as I hope for the end of the unipolar world with the US Empire, I would prefer to see the US Empire end/recede in a way that does not result in massive suffering in the USA.

So do I. Are you of Serbian descent, by any chance?

[Neo Arcad]

I'd just like to note two things: that the US is the most benevolent empire ever to rule the world; and fuck all y'all bitchass motherfuckers. That's all I have to say on this thread.

[Aethrys]

[Priory Academy USSR]

I'd just like to note two things: that the US is the most benevolent empire ever to rule the world; and fuck all y'all bitchass motherfuckers. That's all I have to say on this thread.

Most benelovent. LOLOLOLOLOL. Really? What about all of those dictatorships it set up, ie Iran or some South American countries? At least all the other empires of the world actually admittied they were taking over a country, rather than sneaking around shadily propping up friendly dictators. The USA really isn't any better than any other empire, but it's no worse either.

[New Sapienta]

Some of the opinions in this thread are so ridiculous.

Almost none of the population thinks we have some divine mandate to protect the world.

[Priory Academy USSR]

(Image)

That's Vanguard nuclear submarine with up to 192 nukes. More than enough to wipe out US population centres and military bases. Oh, and there's 4 of them.

But don't worry, that's entirely hypothetical.......

[New Sapienta]

We know our country isn't perfect, and we don't go to war because God told us too, and we don't believe our country is God's Kingdom on Earth.

Yeah you do, read the rest of the thread.

I'm sorry but this is ridiculous.

There a few nutjobs that claim we have a Manifest Destiny to bring freedom and democracy to the world, wheter they want it or not. But most of the American public does not believe that.

You should stop making fucking assumptions about the American public when you are not American yourself.

So we went to war for a religous reason 100 or so years ago, everyone idid. Why you single out America is ridiculous, by the logic that we used to a long time ago, so has almost every European country.

[Krownsinburg]

No. We. Don't.

Give me an example of a American politican calling America God's Kingdom on Earth.

Give me an example of a American politican declaring that we go to war for our Religion.

Give me an example of a American politican claiming that America is perfect.

You can't. Why? Because, that's all just random bullshit you pulled out of your ass.

Here's a tip: Try actually knowing something about a country before trying to discuss it.

You, clearly, have no idea what America is, and you clearly have never been to America, nor live in it.

Because you know next to zilch about it.

[Tlaceceyaya]

No. We. Don't.

Give me an example of a American politican calling America God's Kingdom on Earth.

Give me an example of a American politican declaring that we go to war for our Religion.

Give me an example of a American politican claiming that America is perfect.

You can't. Why? Because, that's all just random bullshit you pulled out of your ass.

Here's a tip: Try actually knowing something about a country before trying to discuss it.

You, clearly, have no idea what America is, and you clearly have never been to America, nor live in it.

Because you know next to zilch about it.

1: Can't find anything.

2: Even better - He declared war.

3: Couldn't find anything with a quick google search.

Although that was not directed at me, I couldn't help but answer the second one.

[New Sapienta]

No. We. Don't.

Give me an example of a American politican calling America God's Kingdom on Earth.

Give me an example of a American politican declaring that we go to war for our Religion.

Give me an example of a American politican claiming that America is perfect.

You can't. Why? Because, that's all just random bullshit you pulled out of your ass.

Here's a tip: Try actually knowing something about a country before trying to discuss it.

You, clearly, have no idea what America is, and you clearly have never been to America, nor live in it.

Because you know next to zilch about it.

1: Can't find anything.

2: Even better - He declared war.

3: Couldn't find anything with a quick google search.

Although that was not directed at me, I couldn't help but answer the second one.

That's not a reputable source.