General isn't for RPers

[Brutland and Norden]

The way I see it, Jaredcohenia's point is not that, "oh, let's reform General to my way," it's "let's make General more outsider-friendly."

But then, can you say that in NSII too? As I said, each forums already have their own subcommunity. Each subcommunity has their own set of (mostly unwritten) rules, traditions, celebrities, modes, and whatnot. When I came first to NSII from NSUN (those UNRes debates did a good job of luring me into the forums ) I'll admit I as bewildered at the place. You had all that histories, that ancient rivalries, those friends and alliances and cliques, and systems that would make outsiders seem out of place. Same with NSG. When I arrived at NSG there were endless memes, friendships, and atmosphere that would at first make outsiders seem out of place. That's because each place developed it own subcommunity. But that doesn't mean that you should confine yourself to one place/forum, or try to impose on a certain subcommunity. All forums of NS are for everyone.

[Jaredcohenia]

International Incidents is the way International Incidents is, and you like it that way.

Well, actually the vast majority of people who speak English at more than a 2nd Grade level don't, but that's a story for another time.

The way I see it, Jaredcohenia's point is not that, "oh, let's reform General to my way," it's "let's make General more outsider-friendly." I come over to General once in a while, and I must be honest, the constant spam, snide comments, and fact that very, very few people back their arguments up with more logic than, "lol, ur a neo-con and there4 wrong" always sends me back to II, where, flawed as it is, at least people are civil with people who think differently from themselves.

If I'm wrong, Jaredcohenia, I retract my first sentence.

I could kiss you, really. Leistung got it right.

[UNIverseVERSE]

International Incidents is the way International Incidents is, and you like it that way.

Well, actually the vast majority of people who speak English at more than a 2nd Grade level don't, but that's a story for another time.

The way I see it, Jaredcohenia's point is not that, "oh, let's reform General to my way," it's "let's make General more outsider-friendly." I come over to General once in a while, and I must be honest, the constant spam, snide comments, and fact that very, very few people back their arguments up with more logic than, "lol, ur a neo-con and there4 wrong" always sends me back to II, where, flawed as it is, at least people are civil with people who think differently from themselves.

If I'm wrong, Jaredcohenia, I retract my first sentence.

In which case you aren't looking beyond a tiny glance. The vast majority of the NSG population are fairly civil with other users, no matter their opinions. We can have productive, interesting, and informative debates on all sorts of topics, from economics through paedophilia. Certainly, there are some spammers, some flamers, some people who solely exist for snark. But II and NS have their godmoders, their spammers, their own share of problematic users.

Both forums are flawed: you have some below average roleplayers, we have some below average debaters. You have some stellar roleplayers, who tell original and fascinating stories, we have some stellar debaters, who make polite, relevant, well writtern and well sourced posts. Maybe we're a bit less formal, a bit more laid back and snide, but to hell with it - it works for us, and it keeps us sane. Indeed, it might work better than the alternative - newbies aren't expected to instantly pitch into the deep end of it, and ragged on if they aren't perfect, but they can develop in looser debates or friendly discussions, get the hang of the place before going for the serious stuff.

Coming in here and saying "you need to change this, this and this, to become what we say you must be" is not appreciated by us, any more than you would appreciate it if we went to II and NS and said "half the RP here is crap. You need to ban all the spammers, ban the godmoders, get rid of the people who won't play exactly as we think it should be played".

The greatest strength of NSG, and the reason that I personally keep coming back to it, is its delicate balance between formal debate and meaningless chat. Some threads veer more one way or the other, but overall the forum feels something like a really nice bar or coffee shop. It's not purely a formal hall of debate, but nor is it just a loud party. It's something inbetween, where one can be relaxed and chat, but also get into earnest, deep debates. Destroying either half of that would kill the forum.

[Muravyets]

The greatest strength of NSG, and the reason that I personally keep coming back to it, is its delicate balance between formal debate and meaningless chat. Some threads veer more one way or the other, but overall the forum feels something like a really nice bar or coffee shop. It's not purely a formal hall of debate, but nor is it just a loud party. It's something inbetween, where one can be relaxed and chat, but also get into earnest, deep debates. Destroying either half of that would kill the forum.

^^ Very nicely said. Thanks.

[UNIverseVERSE]

^^ Very nicely said. Thanks.

You're welcome.

(That is, incidentally, why I'm not too hopeful for the prospects of the new fiction forum, although I can see it finding a niche for itself - less political, maybe, but slightly more serious)

[Muravyets]

You're welcome.

(That is, incidentally, why I'm not too hopeful for the prospects of the new fiction forum, although I can see it finding a niche for itself - less political, maybe, but slightly more serious)

I hadn't even noticed that one. Is there really a need for that? I wasn't aware there were so many bookniks and wannabe laureates here that General could not accommodate them.

When you mentioned a Fiction forum, I was kind of hoping it would be a place for posting fiction we write about our nations or some such.

[UNIverseVERSE]

I hadn't even noticed that one. Is there really a need for that? I wasn't aware there were so many bookniks and wannabe laureates here that General could not accommodate them.

When you mentioned a Fiction forum, I was kind of hoping it would be a place for posting fiction we write about our nations or some such.

It's an expansion of the previous Jennifer Government forum, probably on the basis that not enough people were talking about Max's books.

The fact it includes "each others prose" in the topics for discussion seems to imply you could put up stuff you've written about your nation (presumably which doesn't fit into the RP fora, to drag this vaguely back on topic). I'd recommend just writing something, posting it, and seeing what happens to it. In the name of science, as it were.

[Muravyets]

I hadn't even noticed that one. Is there really a need for that? I wasn't aware there were so many bookniks and wannabe laureates here that General could not accommodate them.

When you mentioned a Fiction forum, I was kind of hoping it would be a place for posting fiction we write about our nations or some such.

It's an expansion of the previous Jennifer Government forum, probably on the basis that not enough people were talking about Max's books.

The fact it includes "each others prose" in the topics for discussion seems to imply you could put up stuff you've written about your nation (presumably which doesn't fit into the RP fora, to drag this vaguely back on topic). I'd recommend just writing something, posting it, and seeing what happens to it. In the name of science, as it were.

I probably won't. I did create my nation to generate a vague model on which to construct a fictional nation, but that project is years off. Right now, I'm working on a fictional world that I rough drafted in RP/player fiction in a fantasy game a few years ago, but it has nothing to do with NS or Max's books and would not be appropriate here.

Anyhoo...back to topic. General is for RPers who are taking a break. How's that sound?

[SaintB]

I've been on and off with NS because of school, but I've never really gotten into RPing here.. is there a sort of "RP guide to NS" anyone can direct me to? Or is RPing in NS pretty much like, talk like a real leader of a real nation in communication with other real leaders of real nations?

Ever read a Tom Clancey novel, or watched the Olympics? Its one or the other pretty much

[Skallvia]

Of course General is 'for' the RPers as much as staunch Generalites, but General isn't for RPing.

Hence the backlash over Jaredcohenia's bizarre 'no OOC posts in General'.

^^^This...

RPers are welcome, just dont bitch about things getting too 'off topic' for your tastes, or threads repeating, cause its not going to stop...

[The Cat-Tribe]

Man, oh, man are those grapes awful sour.

[Trve]

Also in other boards I'm on OOC refers to "Out Of Context" discussion, i.e. threadjacking or w/e.

Which is exactly what I was referring to.

I posted my original topic as a way to prevent some of the failures of the old General board (repetitive topics, threadjacking, spam, and the like) on the new board in an effort to make it better. There's a difference between general and spam, and I believe that at least 95% of the old board was just spam.

In response to Kryozerkia's post, reform is needed. The mood that I have observed over my four+ years on NS and Jolt is that it is all repetitive banter; I've seen more intelligible posts on /b/ than I have on General. The original post by Khadgar wasn't needed, and that is one of the reasons I came on in the first place. General needs to be changed from spam to intelligible, non-NationStates related posts.

Perhaps unified topics on certain threads, perhaps enforced bans on spam, etc.

Good for you. When I care about what you think needs reform, Ill ask. Until then, dont expect me to take your opinion very seriously.

[Neesika]

Who is this Jared dweeb?

[Trve]

Who is this Jared dweeb?

Someone who spent very little time on general (except during the generalite awards he got an army of cronies to come in and stuff the box for him and then whined and cried 'TYRANNY!!' when he lost, remember that?), and yet decides to come on here and whine about how we run general.

Just ignore him.

[Kryozerkia]

Who is this Jared dweeb?

Besides being a reformist upstart, he, and his little friends, were responsible for hijacking the NSG Poster Awards. They were given a temporary ban for spamming amongst other offences. Yes, you read that right, spam. The very thing he finds repulsive about NSG.

EDIT - It seems that Neesika's post has struck a nerve. I'm used to this kind of language and didn't check it twice, but since it has proven to be offensive, I will have to warn Neesika for flaming.

[SaintB]

Who is this Jared dweeb?

Besides being a reformist upstart, he, and his little friends, were responsible for hijacking the NSG Poster Awards. They were given a temporary ban for spamming amongst other offences. Yes, you read that right, spam. The very thing he finds repulsive about NSG.

Spam is the very thing I love about NSG

[Skallvia]

Who is this Jared dweeb?

Besides being a reformist upstart, he, and his little friends, were responsible for hijacking the NSG Poster Awards. They were given a temporary ban for spamming amongst other offences. Yes, you read that right, spam. The very thing he finds repulsive about NSG.

Spam is the very thing I love about NSG

Well...If you say so,

[Midlauthia]

Okay, then how would you enforce it, Jared? How would you make sure it's strictly business?

I believe this calls for a 3 day ban, using a player's name without express permission.

[Midlauthia]

Who is this Jared dweeb?

" "

[Neesika]

Who is this Jared dweeb?

Someone who spent very little time on general (except during the generalite awards he got an army of cronies to come in and stuff the box for him and then whined and cried 'TYRANNY!!' when he lost, remember that?), and yet decides to come on here and whine about how we run general.

Just ignore him.

No, I don't remember that. I didn't even realise there had been generalite awards until I noticed Mur'v's avy. Ignoring him will be as easy as I suppose it always has been.

[Yenke-Bin]

NSGers, I suggest that we drink heavily, engage in sexual debauchery, and loosely debate the idea of crusading against the RPers!!!

[SaintB]

NSGers, I suggest that we drink heavily, engage in sexual debauchery, and loosely debate the idea of crusading against the RPers!!!

Aint that what we usually do?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

NSGers, I suggest that we drink heavily, engage in sexual debauchery, and loosely debate the idea of crusading against the RPers!!!

Why would you want to crusade against the RP'ers? If you're gonna crusade against anyone, crusade against Jaredcohenia. He's the only one arguing General needs changed, after all. I've posted previously that a good many of us agree that its fine as is. Even post here. Or have posted. Or post under various other nations. Or even would prefer we all have a forum we can call 'home' that suits our individual purposes and preferences from which we can venture out as the spirit moves us, if at all, to visit others on occasion. >_>

Of course, by all means, engage in all the rest. That might be a lot of fun.

[Sarzonia]

In a previous topic, Khadgar stated that:

General isn't really for the II crowd. That said, GTFO.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=76&start=25#p1258

Now, this raises a question. Do you feel as though that the roleplayers of NationStates should "butt out" of the General board? Do you feel as though the General board is a waste of bandwidth? Do you feel as though the roleplaying boards are wastes of bandwidth?

RPers who venture into General should be allowed to do so unless they try to RP in General.

It should be common sense: If you go to General, you're posting as the player behind the nation name. For example, when I'm on General, I'm Mike Sarzo the currently unemployed hack, not the late president of the Incorporated States of Sarzonia of the same name.

I find Generalites trying to bar RPers from General almost as distasteful as NationStates RPers putting their noses up at International Incidents RPers.

[Neesika]

I have never really seen most RPers on General, and I sure as fuck don't go seeking them out in their digs.

Silliness.