The Slavic Thread!

[Bering]

Nation Name: Bering
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=bering
Nationality: Bosnian
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Firm supporter
Your views on Slavic Countries: Places with a rich history and culture with nice honest people
Your views on Slavic Governments: Some are better than others
Languages that you speak: English, Bosnian, a little German
Which country/state do you live in: Michigan, USA
Where were you born: Detroit (not raise their thankfully)
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: It's history and diversity

Edit I am enjoying it alot and could I borrow your "Human Beings are humans, not property. Corporations, (Corporate Property), is property; it is not a human being. Once we understand these two simple concepts, we can move on as a society." I really agree with it.

Thank you for the statement

Go for it

Just add "- Shofercia" to the statement, and borrow away! I'll even do you one better - if you add "- Shofercia" to the end, you don't have to borrow it, you can have it

Thank you I will too many corps abuse their power by using that loophole and i am sick of it

[Shofercia]

And what happened to the army that was fighting without air support, artillery or armor? It was crushed. In just 3 months. An armored brigade, a cavalry brigade, four arty brigades - that's not going to help sustain a WWII offensive, not when you need at least a tank army to do so. The reason that the Soviets waited till January, is because it took them that long to get replenished and resupplied. And FYI - in several other places, where the partisans first hit, and were later assisted by the Red Army, Stalin had no trouble creating a satellite state. The difference there is that the partisans actually coordinated with the Red Army, as best as they could, instead of going on a fame grab, and blaming the Red Army for their failure.

It was crushed because the Soviets refused to play ball on anyone else's terms. Those 'several other places' you mention include cities like Lwow, where Home Army forces along with civil authorities were given the choice of conscription or labor camp sentencing. Or Wilno, where after fighting side by side Home Army soldiers were disarmed and imprisoned. Those who resisted were violently dealt with. Or perhaps you're familiar with the 27th Volhynian Division, which was given a (empty) promise by the Soviets for help when surrounded by the Germans in Kowel, managed to break through, and only then was reached by the Soviets. The NKVD sent their officers to Russia and forced the soldiers to join the Soviet-backed Polish Army. Remnants who were later found at locations previously captured by the Home Army were almost all arrested and sent to labor camps.

And sending them back was wrong, but in terms of conscription - manpower was needed to fight Nazism, and conscription was universal, it didn't just apply to the Poles. And it was crushed because they failed to properly coordinate the rebellion. If you have the Red Army nearby, and are desperate for their help, you have to play on their terms. When you ask someone for help - you have to play by his/her terms.

You're right. All they wanted was fame. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that thousands of them were being butchered by the Third Reich and their countrymen couldn't stand to wait any longer.

So your solution was to risk millions of lives on a poorly timed and virtually unplanned offensive? I know it sounds harsh, but war's harsh, especially the Eastern Front in WWII. And if you didn't properly plan your offensive, it could've failed. And then thousands of civilians would still be killed, but now you had to spend even more time, in order to rebuild your army, and check a Nazi counterstroke.

[Shofercia]

Thank you for the statement

Go for it

Just add "- Shofercia" to the statement, and borrow away! I'll even do you one better - if you add "- Shofercia" to the end, you don't have to borrow it, you can have it

Thank you I will too many corps abuse their power by using that loophole and i am sick of it

My pleasure

[ImperialistSalvia]

The only real Slavs are the Slovenes.

It's too bad everyone forgets us :/

[Scooby Doo and Friends]

It was crushed because the Soviets refused to play ball on anyone else's terms. Those 'several other places' you mention include cities like Lwow, where Home Army forces along with civil authorities were given the choice of conscription or labor camp sentencing. Or Wilno, where after fighting side by side Home Army soldiers were disarmed and imprisoned. Those who resisted were violently dealt with. Or perhaps you're familiar with the 27th Volhynian Division, which was given a (empty) promise by the Soviets for help when surrounded by the Germans in Kowel, managed to break through, and only then was reached by the Soviets. The NKVD sent their officers to Russia and forced the soldiers to join the Soviet-backed Polish Army. Remnants who were later found at locations previously captured by the Home Army were almost all arrested and sent to labor camps.

And sending them back was wrong, but in terms of conscription - manpower was needed to fight Nazism, and conscription was universal, it didn't just apply to the Poles. And it was crushed because they failed to properly coordinate the rebellion. If you have the Red Army nearby, and are desperate for their help, you have to play on their terms. When you ask someone for help - you have to play by his/her terms.

Lol, right. Conscription of otherwise unwilling people who weren't even citizens of the Soviet Union is a fine veil to make to case over slavery. 'I'm not going to help you, but you'd better enlist after you've had your entire livelihood torn apart by two invaders.' What you're saying doesn't compute at all.


[/quote]

You're right. All they wanted was fame. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the fact that thousands of them were being butchered by the Third Reich and their countrymen couldn't stand to wait any longer.

So your solution was to risk millions of lives on a poorly timed and virtually unplanned offensive? I know it sounds harsh, but war's harsh, especially the Eastern Front in WWII. And if you didn't properly plan your offensive, it could've failed. And then thousands of civilians would still be killed, but now you had to spend even more time, in order to rebuild your army, and check a Nazi counterstroke.[/quote]

Unplanned? Planning for the Uprising was initiated in 1942. War is harsh. But it's alright. The Soviets came out of their affairs victors while millions of Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, and others had merely managed to exchange a number of oppressors in a matter of a few decades. I guess that's their punishment for 'collaboration'. Lololol.

[Sound Horizon]

Nation Name: Sound Horizon
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=sound_horizon
Nationality: Russian
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Support, but doesn't seem realistically possible
Your views on Slavic Countries: The greatest nations in the world.
Your views on Slavic Governments: Anything but Lukashenko, please.
Languages that you speak: English, Russian, French, German, Japanese
Which country/state do you live in: Magadan, Russia
Where were you born: Sochi, migrate to Magadan
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Our strength to keep going so long and our beautiful culture.

[Scooby Doo and Friends]

And sending them back was wrong, but in terms of conscription - manpower was needed to fight Nazism, and conscription was universal, it didn't just apply to the Poles. And it was crushed because they failed to properly coordinate the rebellion. If you have the Red Army nearby, and are desperate for their help, you have to play on their terms. When you ask someone for help - you have to play by his/her terms.

Lol, right. Conscription of otherwise unwilling people who weren't even citizens of the Soviet Union is a fine veil to make to case over slavery. 'I'm not going to help you, but you'd better enlist after you've had your entire livelihood torn apart by two invaders.' What you're saying doesn't compute at all.

So your solution was to risk millions of lives on a poorly timed and virtually unplanned offensive? I know it sounds harsh, but war's harsh, especially the Eastern Front in WWII. And if you didn't properly plan your offensive, it could've failed. And then thousands of civilians would still be killed, but now you had to spend even more time, in order to rebuild your army, and check a Nazi counterstroke.

Unplanned? Planning for the Uprising was initiated in 1942. War is harsh. But it's alright. The Soviets came out of their affairs victors while millions of Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, and others had merely managed to exchange a number of oppressors in a matter of a few decades. I guess that's their punishment for 'collaboration'. Lololol.

[Shofercia]

And sending them back was wrong, but in terms of conscription - manpower was needed to fight Nazism, and conscription was universal, it didn't just apply to the Poles. And it was crushed because they failed to properly coordinate the rebellion. If you have the Red Army nearby, and are desperate for their help, you have to play on their terms. When you ask someone for help - you have to play by his/her terms.

Lol, right. Conscription of otherwise unwilling people who weren't even citizens of the Soviet Union is a fine veil to make to case over slavery. 'I'm not going to help you, but you'd better enlist after you've had your entire livelihood torn apart by two invaders.' What you're saying doesn't compute at all.

When the choices are enslaving others for less than five years, or having a Hitler dominated Europe - I'm going with slavery.

So your solution was to risk millions of lives on a poorly timed and virtually unplanned offensive? I know it sounds harsh, but war's harsh, especially the Eastern Front in WWII. And if you didn't properly plan your offensive, it could've failed. And then thousands of civilians would still be killed, but now you had to spend even more time, in order to rebuild your army, and check a Nazi counterstroke.

Unplanned? Planning for the Uprising was initiated in 1942. War is harsh. But it's alright. The Soviets came out of their affairs victors while millions of Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, and others had merely managed to exchange a number of oppressors in a matter of a few decades. I guess that's their punishment for 'collaboration'. Lololol.

Unplanned as in - they didn't bother to coordinate with the guys whose help they wanted, and then complained that they didn't get said help. Plans include inter-frontal coordination. And I'd much rather have someone oppressing my politicians, than someone killing off millions of my people. Was it sugar and cherry pie? Nope. And yet, overall, it got much better than under Nazis.

[Shofercia]

The only real Slavs are the Slovenes.

It's too bad everyone forgets us :/

Fill out the application, and you won't be forgotten

Nation Name: Sound Horizon
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=sound_horizon
Nationality: Russian
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Support, but doesn't seem realistically possible
Your views on Slavic Countries: The greatest nations in the world.
Your views on Slavic Governments: Anything but Lukashenko, please.
Languages that you speak: English, Russian, French, German, Japanese
Which country/state do you live in: Magadan, Russia
Where were you born: Sochi, migrate to Magadan
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Our strength to keep going so long and our beautiful culture.

Thank you for filling it out

Why do you think that it's not realistically possible?

[ImperialistSalvia]

Nation Name: ImperialistSalvia
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=imperialistsalvia
Nationality: Slovene
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Pro
Your views on Slavic Countries: I love all of them (except those damn Croats and Serbs )
Your views on Slavic Governments: Unfortunately corrupt (with a few exceptions)
Languages that you speak: English, Italian, and a bit of German
Which country/state do you live in: New York
Where were you born: New York
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Our willpower

[Shofercia]

Nation Name: ImperialistSalvia
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=imperialistsalvia
Nationality: Slovene
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Pro
Your views on Slavic Countries: I love all of them (except those damn Croats and Serbs )
Your views on Slavic Governments: Unfortunately corrupt (with a few exceptions)
Languages that you speak: English, Italian, and a bit of German
Which country/state do you live in: New York
Where were you born: New York
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Our willpower

Thank you for the entry

You don't speak Slovene?

[ImperialistSalvia]

Nation Name: ImperialistSalvia
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=imperialistsalvia
Nationality: Slovene
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Pro
Your views on Slavic Countries: I love all of them (except those damn Croats and Serbs )
Your views on Slavic Governments: Unfortunately corrupt (with a few exceptions)
Languages that you speak: English, Italian, and a bit of German
Which country/state do you live in: New York
Where were you born: New York
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Our willpower

Thank you for the entry

You don't speak Slovene?

Nah, tbh, I don't think I could; Slavic languages are hard.

[Bering]

Nation Name: ImperialistSalvia
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=imperialistsalvia
Nationality: Slovene
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Pro
Your views on Slavic Countries: I love all of them (except those damn Croats and Serbs )
Your views on Slavic Governments: Unfortunately corrupt (with a few exceptions)
Languages that you speak: English, Italian, and a bit of German
Which country/state do you live in: New York
Where were you born: New York
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Our willpower

How do you feel about Bosnian?

[Sedikal]

Nation Name: ImperialistSalvia
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=imperialistsalvia
Nationality: Slovene
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Pro
Your views on Slavic Countries: I love all of them (except those damn Croats and Serbs )
Your views on Slavic Governments: Unfortunately corrupt (with a few exceptions)
Languages that you speak: English, Italian, and a bit of German
Which country/state do you live in: New York
Where were you born: New York
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Our willpower

I'm a Serb............

[Katilkatrina]

Thanx for sharing this site..but i like this site.

[Scooby Doo and Friends]

Lol, right. Conscription of otherwise unwilling people who weren't even citizens of the Soviet Union is a fine veil to make to case over slavery. 'I'm not going to help you, but you'd better enlist after you've had your entire livelihood torn apart by two invaders.' What you're saying doesn't compute at all.

When the choices are enslaving others for less than five years, or having a Hitler dominated Europe - I'm going with slavery.

As if they and other Europeans weren't already enslaved by the Third Reich. Hahaha.

Unplanned? Planning for the Uprising was initiated in 1942. War is harsh. But it's alright. The Soviets came out of their affairs victors while millions of Germans, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, and others had merely managed to exchange a number of oppressors in a matter of a few decades. I guess that's their punishment for 'collaboration'. Lololol.

Unplanned as in - they didn't bother to coordinate with the guys whose help they wanted, and then complained that they didn't get said help. Plans include inter-frontal coordination. And I'd much rather have someone oppressing my politicians, than someone killing off millions of my people. Was it sugar and cherry pie? Nope. And yet, overall, it got much better than under Nazis.

Yes they did. How you can assume they planned for two entire years without bothering to contact a single soul regarding cooperation and coordination is ridiculous, considering the Soviets were already prepared to assist until the Kremlin told them to cease activity. You're not even making a valid argument; you're just trying to make two wrongs a right. You fit into Californian society very well.

[Voerdeland]

Nation Name: Voerdeland
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=voerdeland
Nationality: Polish
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Against the concept of a Pan-Slavic federation, but would support something like a Slavic Commonwealth of Nations.
Your views on Slavic Countries: Positive
Your views on Slavic Governments: Kill 'em all.
Languages that you speak: Polish, English, some Spanish, very little French
Which country/state do you live in: Poland. Warsaw, to be exact.
Where were you born: Poland. Warsaw, to be exact.
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Dark humour, untouched by the concept of political correctness. Governments too incompetent and lazy to actually oppress people.

[Voerdeland]

Yes they did. How you can assume they planned for two entire years without bothering to contact a single soul regarding cooperation and coordination is ridiculous, considering the Soviets were already prepared to assist until the Kremlin told them to cease activity. You're not even making a valid argument; you're just trying to make two wrongs a right. You fit into Californian society very well.

No they didn't. Allied governments weren't aware of the preparations until (late) July, and the Western leaders were quite angry at the Polish government-in-exile for starting the "Operation Tempest". Unlike Stalin, who started to encourage Poles to rise against the occupation. As I mentioned before, the Red Army, the pro-Soviet guerilla (GL/AL), and the pro-London guerilla (AK) (but not the nationalist partisans, the NSZ) were all co-operating in their fight against the Germans throughout the country. Warsaw was the sole exception, because being the capital city, her capture had a symbolic meaning. Stalin's concept was to watch Germans and anti-Soviet Poles crippling each other, and then send the Red Army to an empty city. "Empty" meant also "completely destroyed, with civilians either killed or deported", and that's why we hate uncle Joe so much.

[Scooby Doo and Friends]

Yes they did. How you can assume they planned for two entire years without bothering to contact a single soul regarding cooperation and coordination is ridiculous, considering the Soviets were already prepared to assist until the Kremlin told them to cease activity. You're not even making a valid argument; you're just trying to make two wrongs a right. You fit into Californian society very well.

No they didn't. Allied governments weren't aware of the preparations until (late) July, and the Western leaders were quite angry at the Polish government-in-exile for starting the "Operation Tempest". Unlike Stalin, who started to encourage Poles to rise against the occupation. As I mentioned before, the Red Army, the pro-Soviet guerilla (GL/AL), and the pro-London guerilla (AK) (but not the nationalist partisans, the NSZ) were all co-operating in their fight against the Germans throughout the country. Warsaw was the sole exception, because being the capital city, her capture had a symbolic meaning. Stalin's concept was to watch Germans and anti-Soviet Poles crippling each other, and then send the Red Army to an empty city. "Empty" meant also "completely destroyed, with civilians either killed or deported", and that's why we hate uncle Joe so much.

The operation itself, not the Uprising, wasn't unbeknownst to western allies at the time. Or am I making a vast assumption? Also, I was under the impression that the government in exile and Stalin had cut off relations completely.

[Voerdeland]

No they didn't. Allied governments weren't aware of the preparations until (late) July, and the Western leaders were quite angry at the Polish government-in-exile for starting the "Operation Tempest". Unlike Stalin, who started to encourage Poles to rise against the occupation. As I mentioned before, the Red Army, the pro-Soviet guerilla (GL/AL), and the pro-London guerilla (AK) (but not the nationalist partisans, the NSZ) were all co-operating in their fight against the Germans throughout the country. Warsaw was the sole exception, because being the capital city, her capture had a symbolic meaning. Stalin's concept was to watch Germans and anti-Soviet Poles crippling each other, and then send the Red Army to an empty city. "Empty" meant also "completely destroyed, with civilians either killed or deported", and that's why we hate uncle Joe so much.

The operation itself, not the Uprising, wasn't unbeknownst to western allies at the time. Or am I making a vast assumption? Also, I was under the impression that the government in exile and Stalin had cut off relations completely.

Not completely. UK government often acted as the intermediary, and Mikołajczyk himself (the PM in exile) had met with Soviet envoys numerous times, before being removed from office in November and deciding to return to Poland in 1945.

[Tiny Fuppets]

Ah Yes. I'm/My family is Bosniak, but I am an Atheist Bosnian. Best of luck to all-of-you

[Lysandrion]

Stalin feared that some of those shipments might fall into Hitler's hands; Stalin was being Stalin, paranoid as always, and no, I don't agree with his decision, but Stalin's paranoia wasn't the fault of the Red Army.

Sorry, but this explanation sounds pretty dubious to me. Actually much of the shipments were intercepted by Germans - but to be honest, the amount of these supplies was rather unsignificant to their war effort, while on the side of insurgents every crate of ammo was priceless. and though I am not an air-warfare expert, I suppose that if the allied machines didn't have to fly all over Europe in order to perform their tasks, the precision of air-dropping would be at least slighlty better (more fuel for maneuvering). Furthermore, if performed from Soviet air fields, flights would be more frequent = more supplies for the uprising, better timing, possibility for allied fighters to assist (if needed) etc.
So it was not about the paranoia - Stalin could be paraonid, but he was not stupid. The Red Army's attitude to the Polish underground in the other regions of the country shows clearly that Stalin wanted to get rid of AK and all non-communist groups. Allied assistance to the uprising was just enough to keep them fighting and disorganise German defense in the city, while the Red Army could reinforce. But Stalin had no interest in the insurgents' victory and he did nothing to make it possible. We should have never expect him to do so, though.

...Argh, tired of this - dis someone say something 'bout girls ?

Nation Name: Lysandrion
Nation Link: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=lysandrion (what? How could I become a Capitalist Paradise ?!)
Nationality: Polish
Your views on Pan-Slavism: international fraternity over political federation
Your views on Slavic Countries: the greatest people in the world
Your views on Slavic Governments: most of them - be damned
Languages that you speak: Polish, English, Russian and some French
Which country/state do you live in: Poland. Warsaw
Where were you born: Poland. Warsaw
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: it is my culture
Favorite Slavic book/author/movie/music/etc: Stanisław Lem, V. Bulhakov for "The Master and Margarita" Vadimir Vysotsky, Bulat Okudzhava, A&B Strugatsky, Krzysztof Kieślowski

[Bordurian]

Edit to my post:

Nation name: Bordurian
Nation Link: Bordurian
Nationality: Polish-Canadian
Your views on pan-slavism: In favour of a commonwealth, not a Federation.
Your views on Slavic Countries: Their amazing. Except for a few
Your view on Slavic Government: Most of them suck. Except for the Polish, Czech, Slovak and Lithuanian ones.
Languages you speak: English, Polski et Frainçais
Which Country/State do you live in: Winnipeg, Canada
Which Country/State were you born in: Toronto, Cananda
Your favourite thing about Slavic culture: The food
Your favourite Slavic book/author/movie etc. Authpr: Adam Zamoyski A History of Poland Movie: Katyn Composer: Chopin

[Miasto Lodz]

Nation Name: Miasto Łódź
Nation Link: nationstates.net/nation=miasto_lodz
Nationality: Silesian/Polish
Your views on Pan-Slavism: should be eradicated in every form
Your views on Slavic Countries: I like Czechs, Slovenes and Croatians
Your views on Slavic Governments: they should outsource the governing business to Berlin. The Germans do it better.
Languages that you speak: pl_PL, de_DE, en_US, a little French, a little Russian...
Which country/state do you live in: PL at the moment
Where were you born: Upper Silesia
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: Voerdeland summed it up pretty well
Favorite book/author/: any kind of dystopia: from Zamyatin to Zajdel
Favorite movie: anything by Jean-Pierre Jeunet. As for the Slavic ones - anything by Sverak, Svankmajer or Smarzowski
Favorite music/etc: the stranger the better. Too many to mention.

[Carmadin]

Nation Name: United Provinces of Carmadin (Carmadin, Carm, Carmie, Carmskyy the Ukie, Кармадин, really whatever you want
Nation Link: Carmadin
Nationality: Ukrainian, or Ukrainian/American if you're gonna be picky
Your views on Pan-Slavism: Meh.
Your views on Slavic Countries: I lub them all, but don't usually like russians, as both Ukrainians and my family have sketchy history with them. I approve of Shof though, he's okay
Your views on Slavic Governments: Meh. I don't do those political discussions. Now ask me my views on slavic girls
Languages that you speak: I speak english, yo hablo español, я говорити український
Which country/state do you live in: New Jersey, United States
Where were you born: New Jersey, United States
Your favorite thing about Slavic Culture: We can all understand each other, we all love each other
Favorite book/author/movie/music/etc: I listen to Ukrainian radio, and I like whatshisface Shevchenko, the ukrainian poet.