Christian disscussion thread

[The Merchant Republics]

Error: We can't please God enough.

There is simply no possible way to meet his requirements. Not because of any malice, but simply because we are cursed, rebellious to him. We cannot be with him and only Hell is truly apart from him. That's exactly why we need Jesus.

It's not a matter of God punishing us, though it may seem that way. It's simply that God has little other choice with how to deal with us. He cannot abide our sin, and we can only remove it through Jesus Christ.

But he has the complete power to easily get rid of hell. 'Sins' are relative and are abstractly whatever he decided upon. Just because we are rebellious to him doesn't mean we have to be thrown in eternal torture for no other reason than to satisfy such a vengeance on his part. Just because 'god' is eternal doesn't mean our sins are eternal. Why can't he just not resurrect us if we're not gonna go to some kind of heaven?

Not true. Sins are not simply what God does not like. You don't understand the nature of God. God is what is Good. What is evil is sin. God is unchanging and therefore what is good is always good and sinful always sinful. Our sin is not merely some moniker, but like a physical weight on our souls. Sins further are not relative. They are absolute, as God Himself is absolute. Our sins are indeed eternal. That's rather the point of it being eternal punishment. If we could just take sin on the chin and wait out hell, that'd be quite nice, but that isn't an option, again see the weight analogy. There is no point in which sin ceases to be sin, even if it is a small sin, just as there is no point in which stone is not a stone, except when something acts upon it to take it away.

More importantly, you ask why can't God get rid of sin or hell? The simple answer is He's trying. We're just making it mighty hard for him by resisting. God doesn't want a single one of us in Hell, nor a single sin to be judged, but He must judge and He must send the guilty to hell. He must because He is God, He cannot be with that which is apart from Him, to be Just He must punish the unjust. To be Good, He must not abide evil.

[Hallistar]

Do you think that had you been raised in a muslim or buddhist family that you would never have been christian? Think about it, islam or buddhism, whichever you could hypothetically have been raised in would have made much more sense to you than christianity. In a heavily muslim or buddhist country I mean.

I mean, I've been religious all my life up until last year. So, I definitely know 'faith'. I realized that I was only like that because of my family, all though i will say no non-theist ever convinced me to drop theism, it was only by my own self.

Not really.

The thought entered my mind when I flirted with atheism, which is why I studied many of the religions of the world. I very much like Islam and Buddhism, but I couldn't will myself to believe in them. When I felt the calling to God, and I did, it came in loud and clear, God called me to Christianity.

The nature of your questions leads me to doubt that you know what faith feels like. I don't believe in God because my parents told me God is real, or because my Sunday school teacher told me he was real (I never went to Sunday school), or the Bible (which I didn't read with any vigour until last year), or anything else in the World, heck, I'm very much an agnostic theist. I never listen when people claim God is provable to any certain extent. A God? Sure, maybe we can prove a God rationally. But the God? Not likely.

I believe in God because I choose to put my doubts behind me when I felt the presence of the spirit and accepted that I'd never know why or how.

And I'm an agnostic non-theist because I had 'callings' to other religions equally as when I had left the first one, only to give up in the end, realize that whatever 'religion' i believed in had to do with what i wanted to feel and abstained from theism all together.

I know what faith feels like, but I just could not maintain active 'faith' in any unfalsifiable proposition and take sides and rule out others when they were all as equally unsubstantiated to discern them.

There could be a god, there might not, even after we fully solidify our understanding of virtual particles, string theory, quantum physics and multiple universes/dimensions as an explanation, there is still an even bigger hierarchial question as to how all that started, etc, but I just give up on taking sides. If I actively stick to a religion, it would be interpreted biased-ly based on my subconscious, and I'm just extremely damn sick of having 'crises' of faith. I'm sick of having to have 'faith' in the first place. Given that there are like a thousand denominations of christianity, and a load of ways to interpret the bible differently regardless of denomination, I don't see whats the use in actively being christian either, but thats just me.

I just don't see why that even if theres a god they'd bother babysitting us in some kind of heaven or hell for eternity. If they're really is and they're trolling us by being invisible, then we were doomed in the first place since theres a ton of different interpretations on which 'rules' they set.

[Hallistar]

But he has the complete power to easily get rid of hell. 'Sins' are relative and are abstractly whatever he decided upon. Just because we are rebellious to him doesn't mean we have to be thrown in eternal torture for no other reason than to satisfy such a vengeance on his part. Just because 'god' is eternal doesn't mean our sins are eternal. Why can't he just not resurrect us if we're not gonna go to some kind of heaven?

Not true. Sins are not simply what God does not like. You don't understand the nature of God. God is what is Good. What is evil is sin. God is unchanging and therefore what is good is always good and sinful always sinful. Our sin is not merely some moniker, but like a physical weight on our souls. Sins further are not relative. They are absolute, as God Himself is absolute. Our sins are indeed eternal. That's rather the point of it being eternal punishment. If we could just take sin on the chin and wait out hell, that'd be quite nice, but that isn't an option, again see the weight analogy. There is no point in which sin ceases to be sin, even if it is a small sin, just as there is no point in which stone is not a stone, except when something acts upon it to take it away.

More importantly, you ask why can't God get rid of sin or hell? The simple answer is He's trying. We're just making it mighty hard for him by resisting. God doesn't want a single one of us in Hell, nor a single sin to be judged, but He must judge and He must send the guilty to hell. He must because He is God, He cannot be with that which is apart from Him, to be Just He must punish the unjust. To be Good, He must not abide evil.

Except Good and Evil are also man-made terms. They're relative. I'd say I understand the nature of god just fine. The problem is that factoring in the concept of a 'soul', some kind of ethereal property that copies our biochemical and electrical structure which is unfalsifiable skews the debate. How is it that god is always good? If we define good as not killing others, why does he get to kill many and flood the earth? He could instantly get rid of hell and not have to torture us for all eternity, there isn't anything bounding him. In western societies, we punish those who commit crimes (then again we don't torture them, and even if we did it wouldnt be anywhere near what god lets happen) at varying sentence lengths so that fairness and equal enforcement is made. But even though society may be eternal, we don't/can't physically punish them eternally (Even a life sentence for a murder is not eternal, but you wouldnt get one for theft). We do it because it is in our mutual interests to not murder each other. But outside of society, a human murdering a human is just a sentient computer terminating the function of another sentient computer, much like a lion killing off another lion. I don't support it, but if you murder someone else, nothing is going to fall down from the sky and suddenly strike you. I have more to say here, but since its midnight, I'll leave this with an

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... y32Ac#t=0s

[Tlaceceyaya]

But he has the complete power to easily get rid of hell. 'Sins' are relative and are abstractly whatever he decided upon. Just because we are rebellious to him doesn't mean we have to be thrown in eternal torture for no other reason than to satisfy such a vengeance on his part. Just because 'god' is eternal doesn't mean our sins are eternal. Why can't he just not resurrect us if we're not gonna go to some kind of heaven?

Not true. Sins are not simply what God does not like. You don't understand the nature of God. God is what is Good. What is evil is sin. God is unchanging and therefore what is good is always good and sinful always sinful. Our sin is not merely some moniker, but like a physical weight on our souls. Sins further are not relative. They are absolute, as God Himself is absolute. Our sins are indeed eternal. That's rather the point of it being eternal punishment. If we could just take sin on the chin and wait out hell, that'd be quite nice, but that isn't an option, again see the weight analogy. There is no point in which sin ceases to be sin, even if it is a small sin, just as there is no point in which stone is not a stone, except when something acts upon it to take it away.

More importantly, you ask why can't God get rid of sin or hell? The simple answer is He's trying. We're just making it mighty hard for him by resisting. God doesn't want a single one of us in Hell, nor a single sin to be judged, but He must judge and He must send the guilty to hell. He must because He is God, He cannot be with that which is apart from Him, to be Just He must punish the unjust. To be Good, He must not abide evil.

1: If he doesn't like things like murder and rape, why does he commit genocide and impregnate women with his children without their consent?
2: So wearing clothes of mixed fabrics is still sinful?
3: You see, in civilized society, we don't sentence people to a lifetime of painful torture for murder.
4: So he has the power to create everything, but he can't make it so that his arbitrary rules can't be so easily broken?
5: If he doesn't want anyone in hell, why doesn't he just change his arbitrary rules? (Which he himself has broken on many occasions)

[The Merchant Republics]

1: If he doesn't like things like murder and rape, why does he commit genocide and impregnate women with his children without their consent?
2: So wearing clothes of mixed fabrics is still sinful?
3: You see, in civilized society, we don't sentence people to a lifetime of painful torture for murder.
4: So he has the power to create everything, but he can't make it so that his arbitrary rules can't be so easily broken?
5: If he doesn't want anyone in hell, why doesn't he just change his arbitrary rules? (Which he himself has broken on many occasions)

1. Important to note: Creation is cursed. Anything done to any nation on Earth is justly deserved. The fact that any of us are alive is an act of mercy, according to the theology. Further, I must say I've never seen anyone argue Mary was raped. She seemed pretty thrilled to be the mother of the Messiah.

2. For Jews, sorta. This was a major subject of discussion in the Early Church, but it was decided that the codes that cleanliness codes were for the Jews, codes of sin were for everyone, mixed fabric clothes are unclean not sinful. Sin is a mark of evil, uncleanliness is just a sign of disrespect to God.

3. God doesn't sentence anyone to painful torture, He wants to save us all. The reality is that salvation is real, those that deny God, are for all extensive purposes choosing endless torture over being with God.

4. They aren't arbitrary.

5. As above. God has never broken his own rules. Further. Must I say it again. He has changed the rules already, in order to save us He sent his son to die for us, so that we could escape punishment. Find justice.

[Tlaceceyaya]

1: If he doesn't like things like murder and rape, why does he commit genocide and impregnate women with his children without their consent?
2: So wearing clothes of mixed fabrics is still sinful?
3: You see, in civilized society, we don't sentence people to a lifetime of painful torture for murder.
4: So he has the power to create everything, but he can't make it so that his arbitrary rules can't be so easily broken?
5: If he doesn't want anyone in hell, why doesn't he just change his arbitrary rules? (Which he himself has broken on many occasions)

1. Important to note: Creation is cursed. Anything done to any nation on Earth is justly deserved. The fact that any of us are alive is an act of mercy, according to the theology. Further, I must say I've never seen anyone argue Mary was raped. She seemed pretty thrilled to be the mother of the Messiah.

2. For Jews, sorta. This was a major subject of discussion in the Early Church, but it was decided that the codes that cleanliness codes were for the Jews, codes of sin were for everyone, mixed fabric clothes are unclean not sinful. Sin is a mark of evil, uncleanliness is just a sign of disrespect to God.

3. God doesn't sentence anyone to painful torture, He wants to save us all. The reality is that salvation is real, those that deny God, are for all extensive purposes choosing endless torture over being with God.

4. They aren't arbitrary.

5. As above. God has never broken his own rules. Further. Must I say it again. He has changed the rules already, in order to save us He sent his son to die for us, so that we could escape punishment. Find justice.

1: So that earthquake in Haiti a while back...

Also, I am assuming that god did not talk to Mary about it first. Even though she may have been happy about the result, it was still nonconsensual.

2: So pretty much everyone in a first world country disrespects god? And the churches do nothing about it?

3: Or they don't know about him, or they don't believe in him due to a lack of reasons to, or they needed to do the sin, or whatever. Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a crime.

4: Okay. Why aren't they arbitrary?

5: Thou Shalt Not Kill. The flood. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbour. He skirted around it by changing the pharaoh's mind to justify infanticide.

[Norstal]

Further, I must say I've never seen anyone argue Mary was raped. She seemed pretty thrilled to be the mother of the Messiah.

Merchant, you've been in this forum long enough to know that being pregnant after sex does not mean you consented to that sex.

[The Merchant Republics]

Further, I must say I've never seen anyone argue Mary was raped. She seemed pretty thrilled to be the mother of the Messiah.

Merchant, you've been in this forum long enough to know that being pregnant after sex does not mean you consented to that sex.

Was not sex.

However, it's a pretty good argument that consent to sex is implied when the person the next day wakes up and turns to you and says. "Thanks for the sex."

[The Merchant Republics]

1: So that earthquake in Haiti a while back...

Also, I am assuming that god did not talk to Mary about it first. Even though she may have been happy about the result, it was still nonconsensual.

2: So pretty much everyone in a first world country disrespects god? And the churches do nothing about it?

3: Or they don't know about him, or they don't believe in him due to a lack of reasons to, or they needed to do the sin, or whatever. Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a crime.

4: Okay. Why aren't they arbitrary?

5: Thou Shalt Not Kill. The flood. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbour. He skirted around it by changing the pharaoh's mind to justify infanticide.

1. I'm not saying natural disasters are punishment for our wickedness, I'm saying we have no right to claim that anyone is innocent in the world. The Earthquake is still a tragedy, the fact that God has control over earthquakes does not mean every earthquake is a punishment for sin. Yet it cannot be said that God is ever cruel in causing Earthquakes, the reality is, He is merciful to this day, for letting we rebellious creations continue to even exist.

1b) It wasn't rape however, because there was no sex involved. My Golly, this is just stupid. I won't discuss it.

2. No. did you completely miss what I said? The codes of cleanliness are for Jews not Gentiles.

3. And who are you to judge the appropriate punishment for sin? The judge does not need to consult what other criminals think is fair when dealing out punishment. If you refuse to believe because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying God. We are all sinful, there is no excuse for committing it to God. That said, on the issue of never having heard the word of God, the Church even today is divided on what will happen to them. I like to think that those who approach Christ with a loving heart will get in regardless of what they believed in life.

4. Because God ordained them. Because they are objective and immutable. You are using arbitrary outside of it's appropriate definition. It is arbitrary to say everyone is allowed 3 murders, it is not arbitrary to say that no murder is allowed ever. It is arbitrary to say everyone may lie 344 times before they have to go to hell, it is not arbitrary to say all lies are sinful.

5. We already talked about that in point 1. I see no reason to repeat myself.

[The Realm of God]

1: So that earthquake in Haiti a while back...

Also, I am assuming that god did not talk to Mary about it first. Even though she may have been happy about the result, it was still nonconsensual.

2: So pretty much everyone in a first world country disrespects god? And the churches do nothing about it?

3: Or they don't know about him, or they don't believe in him due to a lack of reasons to, or they needed to do the sin, or whatever. Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a crime.

4: Okay. Why aren't they arbitrary?

5: Thou Shalt Not Kill. The flood. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbour. He skirted around it by changing the pharaoh's mind to justify infanticide.

1. I'm not saying natural disasters are punishment for our wickedness, I'm saying we have no right to claim that anyone is innocent in the world. The Earthquake is still a tragedy, the fact that God has control over earthquakes does not mean every earthquake is a punishment for sin. Yet it cannot be said that God is ever cruel in causing Earthquakes, the reality is, He is merciful to this day, for letting we rebellious creations continue to even exist.

1b) It wasn't rape however, because there was no sex involved. My Golly, this is just stupid. I won't discuss it.

2. No. did you completely miss what I said? The codes of cleanliness are for Jews not Gentiles.

3. And who are you to judge the appropriate punishment for sin? The judge does not need to consult what other criminals think is fair when dealing out punishment. If you refuse to believe because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying God. We are all sinful, there is no excuse for committing it to God. That said, on the issue of never having heard the word of God, the Church even today is divided on what will happen to them. I like to think that those who approach Christ with a loving heart will get in regardless of what they believed in life.

4. Because God ordained them. Because they are objective and immutable. You are using arbitrary outside of it's appropriate definition. It is arbitrary to say everyone is allowed 3 murders, it is not arbitrary to say that no murder is allowed ever. It is arbitrary to say everyone may lie 344 times before they have to go to hell, it is not arbitrary to say all lies are sinful.

5. We already talked about that in point 1. I see no reason to repeat myself.

About No 4 you do understand that all sins are forgivable don't you?

[The Merchant Republics]

1. I'm not saying natural disasters are punishment for our wickedness, I'm saying we have no right to claim that anyone is innocent in the world. The Earthquake is still a tragedy, the fact that God has control over earthquakes does not mean every earthquake is a punishment for sin. Yet it cannot be said that God is ever cruel in causing Earthquakes, the reality is, He is merciful to this day, for letting we rebellious creations continue to even exist.

1b) It wasn't rape however, because there was no sex involved. My Golly, this is just stupid. I won't discuss it.

2. No. did you completely miss what I said? The codes of cleanliness are for Jews not Gentiles.

3. And who are you to judge the appropriate punishment for sin? The judge does not need to consult what other criminals think is fair when dealing out punishment. If you refuse to believe because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying God. We are all sinful, there is no excuse for committing it to God. That said, on the issue of never having heard the word of God, the Church even today is divided on what will happen to them. I like to think that those who approach Christ with a loving heart will get in regardless of what they believed in life.

4. Because God ordained them. Because they are objective and immutable. You are using arbitrary outside of it's appropriate definition. It is arbitrary to say everyone is allowed 3 murders, it is not arbitrary to say that no murder is allowed ever. It is arbitrary to say everyone may lie 344 times before they have to go to hell, it is not arbitrary to say all lies are sinful.

5. We already talked about that in point 1. I see no reason to repeat myself.

About No 4 you do understand that all sins are forgivable don't you?

Of course.

[Tlaceceyaya]

1: So that earthquake in Haiti a while back...

Also, I am assuming that god did not talk to Mary about it first. Even though she may have been happy about the result, it was still nonconsensual.

2: So pretty much everyone in a first world country disrespects god? And the churches do nothing about it?

3: Or they don't know about him, or they don't believe in him due to a lack of reasons to, or they needed to do the sin, or whatever. Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a crime.

4: Okay. Why aren't they arbitrary?

5: Thou Shalt Not Kill. The flood. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness Against Thy Neighbour. He skirted around it by changing the pharaoh's mind to justify infanticide.

1. I'm not saying natural disasters are punishment for our wickedness, I'm saying we have no right to claim that anyone is innocent in the world. The Earthquake is still a tragedy, the fact that God has control over earthquakes does not mean every earthquake is a punishment for sin. Yet it cannot be said that God is ever cruel in causing Earthquakes, the reality is, He is merciful to this day, for letting we rebellious creations continue to even exist.

1b) It wasn't rape however, because there was no sex involved. My Golly, this is just stupid. I won't discuss it.

2. No. did you completely miss what I said? The codes of cleanliness are for Jews not Gentiles.

3. And who are you to judge the appropriate punishment for sin? The judge does not need to consult what other criminals think is fair when dealing out punishment. If you refuse to believe because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying God. We are all sinful, there is no excuse for committing it to God. That said, on the issue of never having heard the word of God, the Church even today is divided on what will happen to them. I like to think that those who approach Christ with a loving heart will get in regardless of what they believed in life.

4. Because God ordained them. Because they are objective and immutable. You are using arbitrary outside of it's appropriate definition. It is arbitrary to say everyone is allowed 3 murders, it is not arbitrary to say that no murder is allowed ever. It is arbitrary to say everyone may lie 344 times before they have to go to hell, it is not arbitrary to say all lies are sinful.

5. We already talked about that in point 1. I see no reason to repeat myself.

1: That sounds like what abused spouses say. "He doesn't hit me as much as he used to."

1b: There's no word for nonconsensual impregnation. Rape is closest.

2: Okay, then.

3: I am a human being with flaws and virtues. My moral code is similar to that of most humans, and it in part evolved over millions of years to maximize offspring produced, and in other part is based on the rules of society. I am the type of person who can commit those sins and who can be affected by them. I am the type of person who can make fair judgement on what the offender should do. The judge analogy does not work, because a judge can commit those sins and can be affected by them in the same way as the offender. God is not a fair judge. He is a detached observer with no experience of what he is observing is really like. Well, that's not entirely true. He sent himself down here to get killed by people so that he could then forgive them, presumably to amuse himself, because if he wanted to forgive us then he could just forgive us.

3b: If you refuse to believe in the Flying Spaghetti monster because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying the FSM. Or replace Flying Spaghetti Monster with Quetzalcoatl, Ba'al, Shiva, or what have you.

3c: Gotcha. So if there's no excuse for committing a sin, it is a sin to kill someone who is about to pull a lever which will blow up a skyscraper?

4: But why did he choose to make them so? What reason did he have? If he had no real reason, then they're arbitrary.

5: Not entirely like #1. It won't be repeating yourself, as this time you will be trying to justify his justification of genocide and infanticide.

[The Merchant Republics]

1. I'm not saying natural disasters are punishment for our wickedness, I'm saying we have no right to claim that anyone is innocent in the world. The Earthquake is still a tragedy, the fact that God has control over earthquakes does not mean every earthquake is a punishment for sin. Yet it cannot be said that God is ever cruel in causing Earthquakes, the reality is, He is merciful to this day, for letting we rebellious creations continue to even exist.

1b) It wasn't rape however, because there was no sex involved. My Golly, this is just stupid. I won't discuss it.

2. No. did you completely miss what I said? The codes of cleanliness are for Jews not Gentiles.

3. And who are you to judge the appropriate punishment for sin? The judge does not need to consult what other criminals think is fair when dealing out punishment. If you refuse to believe because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying God. We are all sinful, there is no excuse for committing it to God. That said, on the issue of never having heard the word of God, the Church even today is divided on what will happen to them. I like to think that those who approach Christ with a loving heart will get in regardless of what they believed in life.

4. Because God ordained them. Because they are objective and immutable. You are using arbitrary outside of it's appropriate definition. It is arbitrary to say everyone is allowed 3 murders, it is not arbitrary to say that no murder is allowed ever. It is arbitrary to say everyone may lie 344 times before they have to go to hell, it is not arbitrary to say all lies are sinful.

5. We already talked about that in point 1. I see no reason to repeat myself.

1: That sounds like what abused spouses say. "He doesn't hit me as much as he used to."

1b: There's no word for nonconsensual impregnation. Rape is closest.

2: Okay, then.

3: I am a human being with flaws and virtues. My moral code is similar to that of most humans, and it in part evolved over millions of years to maximize offspring produced, and in other part is based on the rules of society. I am the type of person who can commit those sins and who can be affected by them. I am the type of person who can make fair judgement on what the offender should do. The judge analogy does not work, because a judge can commit those sins and can be affected by them in the same way as the offender. God is not a fair judge. He is a detached observer with no experience of what he is observing is really like. Well, that's not entirely true. He sent himself down here to get killed by people so that he could then forgive them, presumably to amuse himself, because if he wanted to forgive us then he could just forgive us.

3b: If you refuse to believe in the Flying Spaghetti monster because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying the FSM. Or replace Flying Spaghetti Monster with Quetzalcoatl, Ba'al, Shiva, or what have you.

3c: Gotcha. So if there's no excuse for committing a sin, it is a sin to kill someone who is about to pull a lever which will blow up a skyscraper?

4: But why did he choose to make them so? What reason did he have? If he had no real reason, then they're arbitrary.

5: Not entirely like #1. It won't be repeating yourself, as this time you will be trying to justify his justification of genocide and infanticide.

You make too many assumptions about the nature of God, that I alone cannot help relieve you of,to correct them would take too much time from other things.

You'll have to forgive me I can't respond today.

[Orcoa]

Oh...its one of those Debates again

Well Better go get a beer and watch as you two fight over a hopeless and pointless debate! Good luck!

[Norstal]

Oh...its one of those Debates again

Well Better go get a beer and watch as you two fight over a hopeless and pointless debate! Good luck!

It's only useless if you don't learn anything.

And if you're not learning anything, chances are you have a closed mind.

[Orcoa]

Oh...its one of those Debates again

Well Better go get a beer and watch as you two fight over a hopeless and pointless debate! Good luck!

It's only useless if you don't learn anything.

And if you're not learning anything, chances are you have a closed mind.

Oh I learn a lot from these debates. Besides I'm kidding of course...well I do want a beer right now...mmmm bud light

[Sociobiology]

1. I'm not saying natural disasters are punishment for our wickedness, I'm saying we have no right to claim that anyone is innocent in the world.

I would like to see you argue that a newborn child barely milliseconds old is guilty of something.

1b) It wasn't rape however, because there was no sex involved.

Sex is not required for rape, nor is penetration.
Impregnating someone without consent is considered rape.

3. And who are you to judge the appropriate punishment for sin? The judge does not need to consult what other criminals think is fair when dealing out punishment.

but the judge does not get to decide what is wrong either.
Either you have a say in the laws that govern you or they are unjust, those are the choices.

I'm sorry but that is denying God.

So I god tells you to slaughter children, It is absolutely moral to do so and immoral to even question this?
Is something moral because god says so? or is morality independent of god?

[Orcoa]

1. I'm not saying natural disasters are punishment for our wickedness, I'm saying we have no right to claim that anyone is innocent in the world.

I would like to see you argue that a newborn child barely milliseconds old is guilty of something.

1b) It wasn't rape however, because there was no sex involved.

Sex is not required for rape, nor is penetration.
Impregnating someone without consent is considered rape.

3. And who are you to judge the appropriate punishment for sin? The judge does not need to consult what other criminals think is fair when dealing out punishment.

but the judge does not get to decide what is wrong either.
Either you have a say in the laws that govern you or they are unjust, those are the choices.

I'm sorry but that is denying God.

So I god tells you to slaughter children, It is absolutely moral to do so and immoral to even question this?
Is something moral because god says so? or is morality independent of god?

Hmmm you know, I always wondered about that how virgin birth thing...that is one of the things that I think is a little questionable. My view is that Jesus was born of Joseph but god infused within him his power at birth...so in a way he is both God's son and Joseph's natural born son...or I could be bat shit insane

[Seperates]

1: That sounds like what abused spouses say. "He doesn't hit me as much as he used to."

1b: There's no word for nonconsensual impregnation. Rape is closest.

2: Okay, then.

3: I am a human being with flaws and virtues. My moral code is similar to that of most humans, and it in part evolved over millions of years to maximize offspring produced, and in other part is based on the rules of society. I am the type of person who can commit those sins and who can be affected by them. I am the type of person who can make fair judgement on what the offender should do. The judge analogy does not work, because a judge can commit those sins and can be affected by them in the same way as the offender. God is not a fair judge. He is a detached observer with no experience of what he is observing is really like. Well, that's not entirely true. He sent himself down here to get killed by people so that he could then forgive them, presumably to amuse himself, because if he wanted to forgive us then he could just forgive us.

3b: If you refuse to believe in the Flying Spaghetti monster because of the lack of evidence, I'm sorry but that is denying the FSM. Or replace Flying Spaghetti Monster with Quetzalcoatl, Ba'al, Shiva, or what have you.

3c: Gotcha. So if there's no excuse for committing a sin, it is a sin to kill someone who is about to pull a lever which will blow up a skyscraper?

4: But why did he choose to make them so? What reason did he have? If he had no real reason, then they're arbitrary.

5: Not entirely like #1. It won't be repeating yourself, as this time you will be trying to justify his justification of genocide and infanticide.

You make too many assumptions about the nature of God, that I alone cannot help relieve you of,to correct them would take too much time from other things.

You'll have to forgive me I can't respond today.

Of course, by correcting others assumptions of the "nature of God", you are also making your own assumptions about the "nature of God". It's much like trying to debate the dietary of habits of unicorns. I think that it consists of sugar cane and rainbows, but my friend thinks that it's marshmallows and cotten-candy... I think he's talking nonsense because both of those require processed sugar and other machinated processes... and everybody knows that unicorns can't use machinary *ques MLP objections*.

[Sociobiology]

I would like to see you argue that a newborn child barely milliseconds old is guilty of something.


Sex is not required for rape, nor is penetration.
Impregnating someone without consent is considered rape.



but the judge does not get to decide what is wrong either.
Either you have a say in the laws that govern you or they are unjust, those are the choices.


So I god tells you to slaughter children, It is absolutely moral to do so and immoral to even question this?
Is something moral because god says so? or is morality independent of god?

Hmmm you know, I always wondered about that how virgin birth thing...that is one of the things that I think is a little questionable. My view is that Jesus was born of Joseph but god infused within him his power...so in a way he is both God's son and Joseph's natural born son...or I could be bat shit insane

I think Mary made up an excuse on the fly and just stuck to her story, giving what they did to non-virgin brides at the time I can hardly blame her.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Church of England believer here! 2 years ago christ saved me!

saved you from what?

Proper grammar.

[The Jahistic Unified Republic]

Unsurprisingly, not all members of the Church were born into it, or "brainwashed" into it. And many who were still constantly evaluate their views and the views of the Church. Some atheists even became Christians, shocking, I know.

"Some Athiests even become Christians," Like me.

And me.

[Seperates]

"Some Athiests even become Christians," Like me.

And me.

And then some go from Catholic to Atheist. Like me.

[The Jahistic Unified Republic]

And me.

And then some go from Catholic to Atheist. Like me.

A respectable choice as a Atheist becoming a Christian.

[The Realm of God]

These debates are really tiresome. I am not an apologist so I am not going to participate.

Nuff said.